Challenger 560 Noseweight heavy

[Sproket]

John
Have a look on here for the empty bottle weights...
http://www.calor.co.uk/customer-services/faqs/caravanning/
Have you thought about using a BP-light cylinder ???

 

[johnandrew70]

haha i am not changing to Patio Gas i merely mentioned seeing Patio Gas at B&Q and not Calor Lite,

I Looked on Ebay last night i found lots of propane tails but none mention Calor Lite, does that mean just a normal propane tail will fit?
I also have a 4.5kg bottle which i bought for the cadac a couple of years ago when we had the old van as we didnt have a BBQ point on it, the new van has the BBQ point so now i am stuck with a 4.5kg bottle which i have stuck on the scales, they say a full bottle will weigh 10.5kg mine weigh's 10.2

so nearly a full bottle what the hell am i going to do with that any idea's ?
I do believe we have gone a little off subject

 

[johnandrew70]

BP light sounds good but trying to find a stockist is light trying to find a needle in a haystack, i think Calor Lite is the way to go.
If B&Q dont do it Down here in Cornwall Its no big deal i Shall pop into The Calor Shop in Truro when i am over that way, i checked on the website and they seem to be the only place in cornwall that sells it so if any of you are coming to Cornwall for a break make sure you bring plenty of gas with you

 

[Dustydog]

I do believe we have gone a little off subject

Not really John. It's all still directly concerned with your OP about noseweight. There are hundreds of others on here who say nothing but soak up all the words of wisdom . So hopefully a lot of people are gaining a benefit from these discussions.
This Calor site is useful if you are looking for a Calor Lite stockist near your campsite
http://www.calor.co.uk/find-a-stockist/?pc=ex312ny

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi John,
I knew what you meant

and was with you every step of the way, up here in yorkshire Calor lite is available just about anywhere that sells Calor cylinders. even the local B&Q which is why I mentioned it!!, and yes they also sell "patio gas" but of course this is a diffrent product,
I have never had any problem swapping cylinders of different sizes, and have both 7kg butane and 6kg propane "lite" I also have a 15kg butane for the mobile gas heater I keep in the conservatory, these cylinders are regulary swopped around depending on what I need the gas for, I have used the smaller 4.5kg propane on the odd occasion a lite was not available, as the regulator is the same "ie internal lefthanded screw" and swopped it back for a "lite" next time. so in theory once you have gone over to calor lite (and changed the regulator tail to propane) there is no reason why all the cylinders you have could not be changed to a "lite" and kept as spares,
even if your stockist will not change the 4.7kg to lite you can still have it filled and use it in the van!

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

before changing to patio gas, check that the patio gas's regulators output pressure matches the the approved pressures for your caravan appliances. it is unsafe and illegal to connect missmatched gas supplies and appliances.

hi, although the Prof might have missunderstood the issue above quote is correct. however there are substancial differences between types of regulators that one should be aware of, typically a butane regulator will run at 28mbar and a propane one at 37mbar this difference is fine on older vans that just have a rubber connector as all the vans appliances will have a range of between 28/37mbar, (but check to make sure) this is the case with my van, any gas bottle and yes Prof even patio gas can be use providing the regulator that fits the bottle is between this range,
on later vans the standard was changed to 30mbar (although many appliances still have the 28/37mbar working pressure) and a bulkhead regulator was fitted suppling the van with 30mbar gas pressure, only the tails are different for the type of cylinder used as all the pressure goes through the regulator at 30mbar, the cylinder pressure its self is irrelivent, providing the correct tail is used (none regulated) the van will use any gas bottle fitted. propane or butane. of course if you change the type of gas then the tail has to be changed, I have seen vans with with both types of cylinder fitted one each side with a different tail for each cylinder.

 

[johnandrew70]

So is the tail for the Propane Lite the same tail used on a Butane 4.5kg bottle??.
I know that Propane is better for conditions below 5 degrees C, but what other benefits can be had from using propane other than the lite being light haha?
I have to admit that i have always used Butane but saying that we have never been away in the winter, i want to but the the other half is not keen.
John

 

[ProfJohnL]

hi, although the Prof might have missunderstood

Hello Colin,
Based on my professional experience, I think I do understand the issue. Like it or not the law is actually quite clear. You must only connect a gas appliance to supply designated within the terms of the appliances technical approvals. Whilst older caravan appliances are quoted for use on 28mB Butane and 37mB Propane, they are not approved for use on Propane or Butane at 30mB even though the pressure sits between the two stated values.
Conversely more recent products are designed for 30mB Butane or Propane, but they are not approved to use on Butane at 28mB or Propane at 37mB.
Some products do encompass all three pressure regimes, and if that is the case they will say so their data plate under gas type or categories.
The second issue is that a gas installation designed for the 30mB standard is not tested or approved for use with hihger pressures such as 37mB.
In reality and whilst there is not much difference between these pressures, and in many cases applainces may have no engineering differences, Its a question of legality related to the approved usage of the product.
If an incident were to occur resulting in an insurance claim, the insurer may decline liability if technically or legally incompatible equipment have been used.
A gas technician inspecting an installation, should isolate and prohibit the installation form being used if they find incompatable equipment.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

So is the tail for the Propane Lite the same tail used on a Butane 4.5kg bottle??.
John

No John, the propane tail, fits any Calor propane cylinder, from 3.9kg to 37kg inc the "6kg lite" although in reality the biggest bottle that would fit into the gas locker and be secure is 13kg.
my appologies if I confused the issue quoting the small bottle as 4.5kg when infact it is 3.9kg "brain not working" but as a guide propane is RED and butane is BLUE, so of course a 4.5kg Butane will not fit on the same tail, although if you looked I am sure one is available.

Prof John,
I thought I had covered the points you make quite clearly. the misunderstood comment came about from your earlier post about Patio gas from B&Q and the different pressure of the regulator, the OP John, clearly stated that he has a bulkhead regulator and as such, any unregulated tail to fit any gas bottle "and you can get them" would be regulated to 30mbar only via the bulkhead regulator the type and make of a cylinder is immaterial,
my van a 2005 will take any "bottle regulated gas supply" I know this because I checked,before posting, it says so on the appliances, 28/30/37mbar, but I don't have a bulkhead regulator, just a pipe to a rubber tail.

 

[johnandrew70]

Ok Colin thanks for that, i knew the bottles are different colours to show that they are propane and butane.
On a different note where abouts in Yorkshire are you?
The OH wants to holiday in Yorkshire at some point, i know it sounds strange but we have not ventured out of Cornwall yet, we always have intentions of going further affield but always find a nice site within Cornwall,
John

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi John,
I am glad thats cleared up, and you are well on the way to getting the noseweight sorted, I know sometimes answers may seem a little obvious,

but one has to remember that posts are read by everyone including complete novices who may not be as knowlegeable as the person one is actually answering, and as such it is better to initialy keep it simple and work from there. it has been said that many members dont contribute but read every post to gain information, I also guarantee that someone somewhere, has the same problem and a step by step approach is often the best way to resolve any issues. very often a problem occures but the answer is found somewhere else as it seems this is what happend in your case, a low jockywheel was causing consern and the noseweight was suspected but a faulty gauge meant that any readings took were meaningless once a good gauge was used it was quite simple to alter the nosweight from 100+kg down to 70kg and with a bit of effort I am sure it could be got down to 50kg. not that you need it that low, but attaching the van to the car at this point would see if the low clearance of the wheel was resolved. if it has job done and valueable knowlege gained if it has not then other avenues need to be explored,

regarding the second point (re yorkshire) it is a big county there are many attraction here and many places of interest the York area and the Dales seem to be the biggest magnet as is the east coast, as with all things though one does appreciate what is on the doorstep, and the reason we trek 300 miles, every year down to Devon and Cornwall.
I live in a village just outside Castleford between Leeds and Selby, and being close to the M62 and AI find most places can be reached within 90mins, and as they can be visited in a day trip I never take the van besides the last 3 times we have been to York it has been flooded

if you do decide to visit up here pick one area and tour round, but I doubt you will be able to see it all in one go.
there are a few members from up here and I am sure many recommendations will be forthcomming after you decide to come.

 

[johnandrew70]

I am quite happy with the noseweight of around 80kg its below the 85 limit of the car so it will do for me plus it will drop further once a Calor Lite bottle is purchased.
I stayed in a B&B in Ripon going back 20 odd years ago, i did a bit of travelling around, Aysgarth falls was a great place, also spent the day in Holmfirth on the way home that was in the days of Last of the summer wine, Very nice place.
I do Love Cornwall, There is so much here that i have not seen myself so why drive miles and miles using valuable holiday feet up time.
Friends say to me why dont you come to France & Spain with us but it doesnt do it for me, the stress of getting to the ferry port etc is not my idea of a holiday.
Where abouts do you stay down here when you visit??
John

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi John if your happy,

then we will call it sorted

we usually head for somewhere central as we dont mind touring round, Bude is usually on the list as the atlantic highway covers a wide area down the north coast, also St Austell, same reason along the south, allthough my favorite place is Looe I dont know why it is, because it's no different from all the other nice coastal towns, but whenever we are down cornwall it a place we allways go to at some point.

 

[johnandrew70]

we stay at River Valley in St Austell every year.
its very nice with a pool etc and staff are very friendly, We keep our van at Glode Vale which is near Redruth also a very nice park these are my recommendations if you are looking for somewhere.
Maybe we might bump into each other one day haha.
Yea time to call it all sorted.

Thank you to everyone who has helped I appreciate it.
John

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

Ah yes, River Valley, nice site been a couple of times, staff very nice, last time there they put us on pitch 4 near the amemities block when they realised the wife was disabled, course it was sepember and the site was quite, "Brian c is going this year" he is in for a treat. you are lucky,

on the car front did you ever try the van on with the reduced noseweight to see if the jockey wheel was any higher!!!

 

[johnandrew70]

i cant say i looked at the car when the van was hitched up

i am sure it will be ok, I was looking at a VW Tiguan today in work the car had been traded in and i did enquire as to the price of it but as yet the salesman has not come back to me. its probably too pricey anyway.
The other half wants to stay at River Valley this weekend but i am not keen Pulling the van 30 miles just for 2 nights then back again

.
John

 

[brian_c]

June The 2nd Colin. Getting a bit giddy now. We have not been able to get away much so far this year so we are very much looking forward to it.
Best regards
Brian

 

[Gagakev]

Sorry to interupt your little talkies, but I would like to just go back to the OP just for a moment.

This post should send out a WARNING to EVERYONE who uses a Spring loaded Noseweight Gauge!!
(Sprocket apply for a PATENT on your idea after you have read this)

So copied Sprockets little device that sits on the bathroom scales.
Purchased new set of bathroom scales
Tonight I took a reading with both the Yellow spring loaded device and the scales, the device is set at 360mm to centre of tow ball,
so able to set the new device at the same height.
Reading with Spring device 75kgs
Reading with new scales 102kgs!!!!!
Get scales from bathroom to double check the new scales, reading 103kgs so quite compariable.
So a BIG differance of 27kgs!!
I normally llike to tow around the 85 to 90 kgs or so I thought (tow bar permissable 105kgs, caravan 100kgs)so my max would be the 100kgs.
So taking the max permissable into account I have been over by 17kgs

Thank you John for bringing this to my attention, trouble is now its back to the drawing board so to speak when we hitch up on Friday night ready for the off on Saturday morning.
Ps The experiment i did earlier in the thread was not accurate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[johnandrew70]

We have 2 weeks off at the end of July, Not booked anything yet, think its going to be one of those last minute things. Hope you enjoy your stay at River Valley Brian, also not sure if you are aware but River Valley have aquired the touring park further down the road www.littlewinnick.co.uk .

 

[johnandrew70]

Hi Gagakev.
I am so glad to have brought the nose weight problem up. How many more people out there are Towing a caravan with an over loaded nose just because they put there trust in a spring loaded gauge that has not been calibrated or manufactured properly.
it seems to me absolutely anyone can manufactur sub standard equipment and caravan shops will put it on there shelves and on there websites for us caravanners to buy unnaware that it may well be dangerous.
John

 

[Gagakev]

Proberbly all manufactured in China,

as mentioned in an earlier post John I have struggled to put weight on in the past so looking on the bright side this hopefully will make life a bit easier, I can loose 10kg by emptying the water heater and put the beer in the car

 

[johnandrew70]

I know i shouldnt say it but i have found the majority of things i have bought direct from China have been very well put together and work very well, I wonder where that Yellow nose weight gauge is made, Probably Knocked up in a garden shed somewhere.

John

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

hi Kev,
one enquiry and a question?
enquiry first. would the patent on Sprockets dodah include materials used!! reason for asking I made a simillar device 20years ago using 2x2 wood battens and a 2in newel post to sit the hitch into, it was made for a boat trailer that did not have a jockey wheel, the idea was to stabilise and raise the front of the attached boat slightly nose up so all the rain water drained out of the blige plug, only difference was the hight adjstment and a set of b/room scales. just asking!!

now the question which gauge do you have!! mines a Millenco supposed to be calibrated and conforms to BS standard 7961 now I know because of the zero adjustment bit they cannot be 100% but 27kg is a lot,mines near 5kg,
I have done the alternative test ( bathroom scales and step) difference 5kg but it has to be said though that as either could be out it is impossible to know which one, I did do one other test and that is with a 60kg spring balance hanging from the rafters once the vans noseweight was reduced to 45kg, reading 48kg, so another 3kg difference. making 8kg in all from the lightest to the heaviest, but nowhere near the 27kg you got,
once a base line of 45kg was found I painted a white line on the gauge where ever it sat, and use this to check the weight with as it's easier than trying to read the numbers.

 

[Dustydog]

We have 2 weeks off at the end of July, Not booked anything yet, think its going to be one of those last minute things. Hope you enjoy your stay at River Valley Brian, also not sure if you are aware but River Valley have aquired the touring park further down the road www.littlewinnick.co.uk .

River Valley is owned and run by the Clemo family who work very hard for us tuggers. Everyday they chalk up a blackboard with weather and things to do and see . Excellent place.

 

[johnandrew70]

Surely we should get a discount for all this free advertising for River Valley.

You are quite Correct Dustydog Excellent place its just a shame i live so close to it. Could do with finding a place the same up in Somerset as that is where the other half wants to go at the end of July.

John