Check your battery clamps!

[GaryB]

There's another recent thread on here asking for battery clamp suggestions, just thought I'd remind folks to check theirs.......

We returned home from Broadway yesterday and I have to use the mover to position the wheel accurately for the Alko lock, on opening the battery door to switch the mover on I noticed white marks on the battery cables, I then noticed that this was actually molten plastic from where they'd been touching the inside of the battery box door (photos). Further investigation showed that when the mover had been swapped over when we changed caravans they hadn't trapped it in the battery cable (I pulled it out as in the photo) hence causing a high resistance and heat when using the mover, so next time you're in the battery box, just tug the cables and make sure they're tight!

One other thing, don't overtighten the screws on the clamps, as you WILL strip the threads, as I just did........

 

[Hutch]

A good reminder Gary B, also the positive battery clamp is sitting very high on the terminal, it would be better lower down.

 

[GaryB]

A good reminder Gary B, also the positive battery clamp is sitting very high on the terminal, it would be better lower down.

Definitely, just goes to show that not all caravan engineers understand cable connections! No excuse for me really as I've been in the cable connecting industry for over 30 years so really should have checked it, shouldn't have to, but will in future!

 

[Hutch]

Definitely, just goes to show that not all caravan engineers understand cable connections! No excuse for me really as I've been in the cable connecting industry for over 30 years so really should have checked it, shouldn't have to, but will in future!

What's the old saying " Do as I say, Not as I do" 😂

 

[otherclive]

I would always build my cable ends with solder, and use clamps that had an internal piece that pressed against the cable end but stopped the screws from biting into the cable end. That followed a similar incident to Gary’s.

 

[Raywood]

A timely reminder.

 

[Jcloughie]

I would always build my cable ends with solder, and use clamps that had an internal piece that pressed against the cable end but stopped the screws from biting into the cable end. That followed a similar incident to Gary’s.

That was always my preferred method. But ‘experts’ have saide this is a poor way to do it for technical reasons. Evidently, the best way is to use ferruls.

See here.

The problem is there are so many sizes, and they seem to be sold in bulk. So buying an odd few is difficult.

John

 

[otherclive]

That was always my preferred method. But ‘experts’ have saide this is a poor way to do it for technical reasons. Evidently, the best way is to use ferruls.

See here.

The problem is there are so many sizes, and they seem to be sold in bulk. So buying an odd few is difficult.

John

All I can say is that it worked fine for me, despite not aligning with the experts recommended approach. Continuity was always good, no dry joints and no further problems emanating from poor connections within the terminal clamps.

PS I have used Wago connectors on the caravan and at home. They are good.

 

[GaryB]

In the supply industry the main push away from soldering (sweating) was due to H&S concerns and requiring a certain skill. Bolted connectors are now prevalent in all connections up to 132kV and beyond (my own area of expertise is from 230V to 33kV). Screw and crimped connections work well if sized correctly as compressing the strands reduces the contact resistance between each strand. However, when my new clamps arrive (stripped thread........) I'll be soldering all of the strands together before use.

 

[Jcloughie]

All I can say is that it worked fine for me, despite not aligning with the experts recommended approach. Continuity was always good, no dry joints and no further problems emanating from poor connections within the terminal clamps.

PS I have used Wago connectors on the caravan and at home. They are good.

Like you, I had no problems with solder in the past. But it is not the current thinking. Even with items supplied ready for connecting, they used to be supplied tinned, but now they have crimped on ferrules.

I have read where some say soldering is a great big NO. But I tend to agree with Gary. Things have changed probably to comply with H&S and faster production.

Are Wago fittings suitable for flex?


John

 

[GaryB]

I have read where some say soldering is a great big NO. But I tend to agree with Gary. Things have changed probably to comply with H&S and faster production.

Another issue is the role-out of lead-free solder, as while it is no doubt better for everyone from a risk/H&S stance, it simply doesn't work as well as leaded solder.

 

[otherclive]

Like you, I had no problems with solder in the past. But it is not the current thinking. Even with items supplied ready for connecting, they used to be supplied tinned, but now they have crimped on ferrules.

I have read where some say soldering is a great big NO. But I tend to agree with Gary. Things have changed probably to comply with H&S and faster production.

Are Wago fittings suitable for flex?


John

I have used Wago on stranded cables but my normal approach is to solder the cable ends. I struck lucky a couple of weeks back as I found a cache of lead solder as I cleared my BIL garage. But I don’t know if all Wago are suitable for stranded cables. User has to determine for themselves.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-PfN_wwkujQ

 

[Jcloughie]

I have used Wago on stranded cables but my normal approach is to solder the cable ends. I struck lucky a couple of weeks back as I found a cache of lead solder as I cleared my BIL garage. But I don’t know if all Wago are suitable for stranded cables. User has to determine for themselves.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-PfN_wwkujQ

That clearly shows stranded cables. But makes me wonder if there is a difference between stranded for fixed use, and flex which is stranded with finer wires.

I feel the Wago is designed for fixed use only. (But could easily be wrong).

John

 

[otherclive]

That clearly shows stranded cables. But makes me wonder if there is a difference between stranded for fixed use, and flex which is stranded with finer wires.

I feel the Wago is designed for fixed use only. (But could easily be wrong).

John

I came across another forum where a post in 2014 reported Wago connectors in Eriba caravans, and increasingly in motorhome builds. You can get various sizes/types connector, of mini junction box, or mounting carrier rails. They are also able to be hot glue gun bonded to a surface. But like most things the potential user has to be responsible for selecting the right kit for DIY mods. But suffice to say I have not had any problems with them or my use of them.

PS Wago aren’t the only manufacturer of clamp type wiring connectors. There are some the resemble the well known plastic screw clamp terminal block and come with holes to screw them down onto a surface.

 

[Jcloughie]

I came across another forum where a post in 2014 reported Wago connectors in Eriba caravans, and increasingly in motorhome builds. You can get various sizes/types connector, of mini junction box, or mounting carrier rails. They are also able to be hot glue gun bonded to a surface. But like most things the potential user has to be responsible for selecting the right kit for DIY mods. But suffice to say I have not had any problems with them or my use of them.

PS Wago aren’t the only manufacturer of clamp type wiring connectors. There are some the resemble the well known plastic screw clamp terminal block and come with holes to screw them down onto a surface.

Not an answer to my question. (which is purely academic). It seems (to me) there are 3 types of wire. Single, heavy strand. Or stranded wire for higher amperage installations. Then flex many fine wires. Yes, the Wago type connector is great for the first two. But I wonder if it is for the flex.

Nevertheless, the use of solder or a ferrule appears to be advantageous for stranded wires. Grub screws can be cruel.

John

 

[GaryB]

There are different "classes" of conductors (wires) depending on application. In my industry they are known as "class 2" which includes stranded for fixed installations and "class 5" which is a much finer/smaller diameter of conductor for applications where there may be movement, connecting onto each requires it's own challenges in connector design. To be honest things get pretty crude on domestic installation accessories!

 

[otherclive]

Not an answer to my question. (which is purely academic). It seems (to me) there are 3 types of wire. Single, heavy strand. Or stranded wire for higher amperage installations. Then flex many fine wires. Yes, the Wago type connector is great for the first two. But I wonder if it is for the flex.

Nevertheless, the use of solder or a ferrule appears to be advantageous for stranded wires. Grub screws can be cruel.

John

If you want definitive answer to your academic question wouldn't it be best to contact WAGO, Although the video in my post # 13 does cover solid, stranded and fine stranded conductors. But how "fine" is "fine" and how flexible is the cable I cannot give an answer, only that I have used the WAGO on caravan and domestic systems, and do not wish to dive down any further into academic questions as the original post related to battery connections.

 

[Dustydog]

I don’t see how a Wago helps the OP?
All my caravans have had the standard twin screw cable fixing as illustrated in the OP photo.Never had a problem. I have tried tinning the cable ends in the past with little success. The heat needed is beyond my domestic soldering iron and in the end the cable outer sheath was melting😢.
Also the Wagos look tall to me but I don’t see how they fit onto the battery terminals🤔🤔

 

[Jcloughie]

I don’t see how a Wago helps the OP?
All my caravans have had the standard twin screw cable fixing as illustrated in the OP photo.Never had a problem. I have tried tinning the cable ends in the past with little success. The heat needed is beyond my domestic soldering iron and in the end the cable outer sheath was melting😢.
Also the Wagos look tall to me but I don’t see how they fit onto the battery terminals🤔🤔

They don't, unless someone incorporated the idea into a battery clamp, however. I think ferules would be advantageous and save the need for tinning, which as you say, is not easy on larger wires.

John

 

[GaryB]

Regarding tinning larger cables I use a small blow torch, this allows larger cross sections to be tinned relatively easily.

 

[Jcloughie]

If you want definitive answer to your academic question wouldn't it be best to contact WAGO, Although the video in my post # 13 does cover solid, stranded and fine stranded conductors. But how "fine" is "fine" and how flexible is the cable I cannot give an answer, only that I have used the WAGO on caravan and domestic systems, and do not wish to dive down any further into academic questions as the original post related to battery connections.

Simply because the question was purely academic. I was only making conversation, It was yourself that brought up the Wago idea. Sorry to have bothered you, but I thought you may be interested. Nevermind.

I don't think the video did cover finely stranded flex actually, at least I never saw it.. A totally different animal to stranded.

John