Citroen C5 Noseweight

[John_374413231]

I get my new Citroen C5 hopefully this week and am looking at getting a new caravan.

I would really like the Bailey Series 6 GT60 460/2 which suits mine and my partners needs perfectly.

I have a concern about noseweight which on the C5 is 73kg. The caravan noseweight is 69kg ex factory without gas bottles etc which leaves very little to play with.

Would I be better looking for a differnt caravan.

Thanks...John

 

[WilliamLX]

I have a Bailey Ranger series 5 510/4. A bigger van but with less heavy extras than the GT60. Ex-factory the nose weight was 85kg or so. I have had to rig a holder to allow me to carry the gas in the rear bathroom for towing, just to get the nose weight down to 75-80kg (depending on the length of trip I have to pack for). I have come to the idea that to caravan with a brand new van you really need to be looking to drive a big 4x4 rated for 100kg nose weight.

 

[xtrailman]

The xtrail,CRV etc all have 100kg nose limits, weigh little more than a Mondeao

 

[Ian_374396739]

Noseweight ?? but watch the clutch on HDI model mine lasted 15,ooo miles + and only towed 1 last OCtober- normally not covered by warranty over 12,000 miles

 

[xtrailman]

I didn't mention the DMF, its not what you want to hear, having just put a order in?

But yes i do know someone whose flywheel went into self destruct, in the first year, and he didn't tow, but is a fast driver.

 

[WilliamLX]

The xtrail,CRV etc all have 100kg nose limits, weigh little more than a Mondeao

100kg for the X-trail is 25kg more than that allowed for my Mondeo.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello John,

The factory nose weight for the caravan has little relevance, as when you load your caravan the caravans centre of gravity changes and the nose weight also changes just like a see saw. By careful loading you can produce almost any nose weight you want.

 

[xtrailman]

William

The point i failed to make was, while the xtrail,crv weigh little more than a Mondeo, they do have a 100kg nose weight limit, i am refering to the CRV111.

 

[Lutz]

Further to John L's message, there is not necessarily a direct correlation between high noseweight and good towing characteristics. Although, on the whole, one can say that the higher the noseweight, the more stable the outfit, but some cars get by with quite moderate noseweights and already feel quite comfortable when towing whereas others need a lot more.

 

[otherclive]

Despite the dig at Mondeos I am not sure that I have seen any significant honours awarded to either the X-trail or CRV!. Ford have raised the Mondeo noseweight from its earlier 80kg to 90kg, so it really makes no difference compared to a CRV or X-trail's 100kg.

 

[xtrailman]

clive

And where is the dig at the Mondeo?

 

[WilliamLX]

I was the one to mention Mondeo's, meaning the last version (I drive a 2006) which has a similar nose weight allowance as the C5 ie 75Kg (compared with 90Kg for post 2007 version). In general my Mk3 Mondeo is a superb car to drive and despite me having had a very limited choice of new caravan due to how heavy modern vans are (basically nothing above the Ranger in my preferred Bailey make), I have found that the Mondeo also is a good tow car. My point was that to have a wide choice of caravans that can be found that are under 85% of the cars weight and with a nose weight that will fall under that permissible for the car, that sadly you really need to be looking at one of the larger 4x4s. Something I will be reluctant ever to buy as they are horrible to drive compared with a great car like the Mondeo, and expensive to fuel, tax and insure (also to buy new).

 

[Lutz]

Crikey!!! The MTPLM of a Bailey Ranger GT series 6 460/2 is only 1177kg - hardly something that requires "one of the larger 4x4s", as William says.

 

[WilliamLX]

I should have said for a family caravan (ie 4 or more berths).

 

[Lutz]

Even then, one can't say that a 4x4 is absolutely necessary. There are loads of people towing 4 berth family caravans safely behind quite mondane saloon cars. Only if one insists on staying below an 85% weight ratio might one's choice become more limited.

 

[WilliamLX]

Even then, one can't say that a 4x4 is absolutely necessary. There are loads of people towing 4 berth family caravans safely behind quite mondane saloon cars. Only if one insists on staying below an 85% weight ratio might one's choice become more limited.

I do want to stay at 85% or below. I am not a professional driver, have had no training in driving with a trailer and while it is legal to tow up to 100%, I am sure that the caravan club and the other sources recommend 85% for a reason. Personally I think things have gotten out of hand with the weight and luxuries fitted to caravans - microwaves etc which even if I had I could rarely use as 80% of my caravaning is at CC Rallys at locations with ouit electric hook ups.

 

[Lutz]

Actually, if you passed your driving test before the 1st January 1997 or you hold a category B+E licence, you can even tow over 100% (not that I would wish to do so with a caravan, though).

Whether you wish to stay below 85% is, of course, a matter of personal choice, but no evidence has ever been produced that 85% is signficantly safer than say, 90% or even 95%. The 85% figure is totally arbitrary.

 

[xtrailman]

Lutz

Why do you require evidence, for something which is simply common sense?

There are no advantages to towing over 85%, but plenty for towing below.

 

[Lutz]

I don't wish to question the fact that a low weight ratio is one of the factors which contribute towards stability (there are a good many others which are at least equally important), but this is a sliding scale. As the 85% is totally arbitrary, one can replace the percentage figure in your statement "There are no advantages for towing over 85%, but plenty for towing below" by any other percentage that care to choose. Strict adherence to the 85% figure would suggest that something changes suddenly when you go over 85% and anything over that is a formula for disaster. One thing is for sure, however, a reasonable increase in weight ratio can open up a wider choice of possible towcar/caravan combinations, which is an obvious advantage.

 

[xtrailman]

Lutz

I think you you are failing to understand, the thinking behind the 85%, above or below is acceptable, but 85% is the sepoint if you like.

Nobodys saying i'am at 85% therfore my rig is safe, its simply a happy place to be.

Rather like having a few drinks, feeling good, but still not unsteady on ones feet!

 

[Lutz]

OK, but why are you happy at 85% but unhappy at 90%? Or alternatively, why not say that 80% is your limit?

 

[Mick_price]

Don't be fooled into thinking simply towing with a 4 x 4 makes everything safe. We managed to trash our combination of Discovery and 2 berth Swift Challenger with a MTLPM of 1330Kg if I remember correctly. Everything was properly loaded, nose weight was right, tyre pressures were right, we were doing no more than 55mph, we just got hit by the bow wave of a coach as we were coming out of a cutting on the M42 and believe me, once a big 4 x 4 starts to oscillate with those big bendy tyres, high centre of gravity and loads of suspension travel, it is literally all over the place and pretty uncontrollable. The crash barrier did a wonderful job of stopping it though.

Give me a nice low slung, stiff springed saloon or estate, preferably with self levelling rear suspension, any day. I now tow with a Jag X-Type 2.0D Estate (a Mondeo in disguise), and it is far more stable than the Disco. Nose weight is limited to 65Kg, so I have to juggle the balance a bit, but by fitting an under-chassis spare wheel carrier I have moved the weight of the spare wheel from the front locker to just behind the axle, the wardrobe sits just rear of the axle and most other clutter of any consequence goes on the floor just behind the axle. I am using Calor lightweight gas bottles and I manage to keep nose weight pretty well spot on.

 

[terry_374356161]

my friends tow a bailey indiana with a 1.6td c5, old model. the indiana has a M.T.P.L.M. of 1500kgs and the old c5 has a very low maximum permissible braked towing weight of 1300/1370 kgs? the old c5 1.6td has a towbar weight of 73kgs, for that model, but the present one is only 55kgs, and a max braked tow weight of 1370.

whichever way you look at it the manufacturers max must prevail. so beware for this car which model you choose. the 85% rule does not and can not apply to my friends car.

the towsafe disc at the dealers at the time had the incorrect information on it at the time. the technical information officer at the camping and caravan club mag pointed this out to me.

his comment was that the insurance would be null and void, and that if the police caught up with him that he would have to leave the caravan at the side of the road and arrange transport. in this instance prosecution might ensue. if an accident resulting in death occurred they would pretty much throw the book at him. apparently the standard charge for closing off the motorway and clearing it for this is

 

[terry_374356161]

my friends tow a bailey indiana with a 1.6td c5, old model. the indiana has a M.T.P.L.M. of 1500kgs and the old c5 has a very low maximum permissible braked towing weight of 1300/1370 kgs? the old c5 1.6td has a towbar weight of 73kgs, for that model, but the present one is only 55kgs, and a max braked tow weight of 1370.

whichever way you look at it the manufacturers max must prevail. so beware for this car which model you choose. the 85% rule does not and can not apply to my friends car.

the towsafe disc at the dealers at the time had the incorrect information on it at the time. the technical information officer at the camping and caravan club mag pointed this out to me.

his comment was that the insurance would be null and void, and that if the police caught up with him that he would have to leave the caravan at the side of the road and arrange transport. in this instance prosecution might ensue. if an accident resulting in death occurred they would pretty much throw the book at him. apparently the standard charge for closing off the motorway and clearing it for this is