Comments about my tow car!

[GD485]

Hi all,

I tow my caravan ( Coachman 575/4 vision) with a VW Tiguan which works out as a 93% match. This combination is very stable and has enough power to make legal limit progress on all roads.
In the last 3 years of using this combination I've had 4 other caravanners tell me its overloaded or unsafe to use.
The C&CC matching service says it's a good match and so does towcar.info website.
I noticed most of the comments come from owners of large 4x4s towing lighter 'vans that are lighter than mine.
My tow car doubles up as an everyday car so it has to be a balance between economy and ability which the Tiguan manages easily.
I have towed this combination some 10000 miles without a hint of trouble so why do other caravanners see the need to make comments.
Recently I stayed at a campsite near Dartmouth and was put in no doubt by a fellow caravanners that I was a danger on the roads.
Why do some caravanners seem to think their set-up perfect and all others are inferior?

 

[Hutch]

GD, can you help us which model of Tiguan do you have,?

 

[Andy-H]

If you're confident yourself that the weights are within legal limits; by that I mean going by the plates on your VW & Caravan (not the matching sites, particularly the towcar.info one as this has been known to be regularly inaccurate) then take no notice.
Having seen the advice dished out on some Facebook caravan groups regarding tow weights, I'm not at all surprised what you've experienced.

 

[GD485]

It's a 2015 Tiguan 150ps 4motion DSG Bluemotion.
I've used matching websites and my calculator using the data in the handbook and the vin plate. It always works out to around 93%.
So as an a experienced driver of towing vehicles it's well within the abilities of driver and car.
I just can't understand why there is a few fellow caravanners that seem to think the 85% guide is a maximum legal limit and I should be told in no uncertain terms that I'm a danger on the roads.

 

[Hutch]

GD, when I checked up just now the unladen weight of your car is showing as 1598 kg, I cant see a problem, as long as you haven't over loaded your caravan.

 

[Damian]

Quote " I just can't understand why there is a few fellow caravanners that seem to think the 85% guide is a maximum legal limit and I should be told in no uncertain terms that I'm a danger on the roads. "

Quite simply they have nothing better to do with their time and think they know everything, when in fact they do not.

I think you have it right about some folk regarding the 85% as the maximum legal limit when it is nothing of the sort, merely a suggestion for inexperienced towers.
But, that then raises the question of when does one become "experienced"?

As long as you are happy, all your weights add up and are OK, take no notice of the idiots who try and say differently.
Do what you set out to do, ENJOY your holiday.

 

[Martin24]

I think you've really answered the question yourself before posting.

93% perfectly acceptable for an experienced tower.

If you've covered 10000 miles trouble free and the outfit feels solid and stable then it's not an issue.

Some people have nothing more to do with their time than watch what other people are doing and comment upon it. What I do like is when they then come unstuck themselves.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Ok lets start with the matching services you have quoted. The big problem with all of these services is the databases they use do have errors, and becasue they are errors they are not obvious, and you cannot be sure the data they have used is exactly right for your model. So do not trust matching sites or services.

The calculations aren't difficult Take the MTPLM of the caravan and divide it by the kerbweight of the tow vehicle to establish the towing ratio.

As for enough performance take max power of tow vehicle and divide it by the sum of the Cars maximum permitted weight (MAM) added to the caravans MTPLM to get the outfits power to weight ratio.

You tell us youv'e had the Tiguan and Caochman combination for three years so I'll assume you have 2014/15 models of car and caravan. With regards to the car Ill assume you have the top of the range Diesel which is likely to have the greatest kerbweight.

According to Coachman the 475/4 was first introduced as a 2015 model and its MTPLM is 1540kg
(https://www.coachman.co.uk/uploads/files/4pp_Spec_Sheet_2015.pdf)

As you have not specified the exact model of Tiguan you have I'll look at the extremes of the 2008 to 2016 range

1.4 TSI S (147bhp) 5d has a listed kerbweight of 1546kg and a ratio of 99.6%. The 2.0 TDi Match (170bhp) 5d has a listed kerbweight of 1609kg, and a 96% ratio. Yours will most likely lie somewhere between these.

These are high values and it goes against the caravan industry towing advice of keeping the ratio as low as possible.

It also has some other possible implications. and it depend on what entitlements you have on your driving licence.

The 2014 model Tiguans have a GVW value of about 2000kg or more add the MTPLM of the caravan 1540kg gives a total (Combined MAM) of at least 3540kg. To tow a combined MAM of more than 3500kg you must have entitlement BE or B+E on your licence. If you do not you are illegal.

Without the detailed data for your vehicle this is the best I can do.

 

[PHOENIXFLIER]

As a great believer in the good old weighbridge, I would take your set up to one asap. At least you will be able to get a print out of exactly what weighs what!.

 

[Raywood]

The 85% figure is a guide for beginners and is not a rule. 93% is a pretty high ratio though, but the VW is very stable towcar and should manage in the hands of an experienced caravanner provided you appreciate you are nearer the limit than many of us. You should however remember that the towing limit is not the figure that the car can tow safely but what it will restart on a 12% hill five times and is more about the strength of the driveline.
If as the Prof suggests you are over 95% then I think you are getting very close to, or possibly even over the cars practical limits for safe towing. You are looking at the car having to control the weight of the caravan in an emergency and in that case weight does count. I appreciate what Damian says, but as someone who has had to investigate and deal with accidents, I have found that the cases I have seen of drivers losing control have always had a very high weight ratio.

 

[ProfJohnL]

As a great believer in the good old weighbridge, I would take your set up to one asap. At least you will be able to get a print out of exactly what weighs what!.

Unfortunately that wont change the combined MAM as that is pure and simply a paper calculation of the cars offical figures.

 

[GD485]

I'm perfectly happy with my set up and time has proven it to be correct.
My problem is the aggressive nature of some of the comments made by fellow caravanners.
Why do they think their setup is the bee's knees and I'm a danger to the world because I dare to exceed the holy figure of 85%

 

[Hutch]

DG, if your van is a 2015 575/ then the MTPL is quoted as 1540 kg and your car's kerb weight is 1598 then you are up at 96% . Not ileagle , by the time you have loaded up the car then your down to maybe your 93%.
I used to tow my VIP 545/4 with a 3 litre Vectra, this was on the 93% area and it towed very nicley.
Hoppy touring.

 

[Dustydog]

PCv's David Motton wrote this a few years ago . Worth a read and I believe it should dispel the rubbish coming from the onsite know it alls
http://www.practicalcaravan.com/reviews/tow-car/31479-volkswagen-tiguan

According to VW you should be able to do the hill starts described by Ray with some ease. VW's 2200kgs is ample imo. VW say a nose load of 100kgs is acceptable too.

Sadly you have to accept there will always be Barrack Room Lawyers who think they write the caravan guides. Watch them hitch and pitch. You soon find out who the real expert is.
You just enjoy your pastime and stuff the ignoramouses :cheer:

 

[PHOENIXFLIER]

Barrack room lawyers?........................Never!.

 

[Parksy]

I'm perfectly happy with my set up and time has proven it to be correct.
My problem is the aggressive nature of some of the comments made by fellow caravanners.
Why do they think their setup is the bee's knees and I'm a danger to the world because I dare to exceed the holy figure of 85%

If you feel that conversations with strangers that you engage in are aggressive it's probably best to walk away or give the tried and tested two word reply which is shorthand for "go away".
If however you decide to continue talking to these 'aggressive caravanners' simply ask them to produce documented evidence that an 85% towing ratio is somehow safer than 95% ratio when the driver is experienced and legal.
Personally I'd tell the critics of my chosen outfit to mind their own business, but the topics involving weight, towing ratio or driving skills are not something I've ever heard discussed over a glass of wine outside the awning or a pint in the clubhouse to be honest.
Enjoy your caravan and ignore the caravan bores with nothing better to talk about

 

[DaveA1]

Had a similar thing. Towed a Compass 510/4 with a Vauxhall Carlton 2lt the Van 1200 kg max Carlton 1240kg
Car looked big, as did the van, nobody said a word. Bought a Cavalier 2.5 V6 (couldn't pull your head off the head rest if you floored it :woohoo: ) can't remember exactly kerb weight about 1350kg smallish compact cars had a few comments, took no notice. Carlton was better tow car lower rev torque cav too far up rev range.
If your happy tell them to read PC

 

[JonnyG]

I've always been a firm believer that the 85% rule was hog wash but of late i;m finding more info from those wiser than us mere caravaners , ok me , that maybe its a good rule .Not long ago i'm sure i came across an article that it was becoming mandatory in Germany..like so many thinks mind sets change , i mean more speed limits are being lowered on stretches of main roads because the powers that be feel a safety need to do so. wouldn't surprise me if that happened to towing limits too.

 

[Martin24]

When we get our new car (final agreement from swmbo today) I'm sure people with have plenty to say about the match when we pull up on site. We should fit in with the travellers well at least! :woohoo: My response will be you have the wheelchair and I'll have your outfit.

 

[Gafferbill]

I first saw a VW Tiguan in France some ten years ago on a campsite.
It was Dutch owned and it looked too small for the caravan it was matched with.
That was my first impression.......since then I have seen loads matched with caravans and I have learnt that they make very good towing vehicles with the statistics to prove it.

Since you have only had 4 comments in 3 years........I think I would have quite enjoyed putting them straight as to the facts :evil:

 

[Gagakev]

When we get our new car (final agreement from swmbo today) I'm sure people with have plenty to say about the match when we pull up on site. We should fit in with the travellers well at least! :woohoo: My response will be you have the wheelchair and I'll have your outfit.

Hope you are entitled to it VAT free, article on that in this months C & CC magazine. B)

 

[Martin24]

Not read the article but yes no VAT on vehicle or adaptions :cheer:

 

[Martin24]

Kev can't find the article. New specs may be needed :blink: which page?

 

[thosoneill]

I concur with those folks querying your outfit - the vw tiguain is clearly a bad match for your caravan - I would upgrade your tow vehicle to a vw touareg immediately

 

[colin-yorkshire]

yeah just ignore them mate. or if that in not possible. refer them back to the caravan idiots school they never progressed from. some people think size matters one guy I met was adamant the only tow vehicles worth using was the biggest one available. like mine he said. built like a tank. will go anywhere. his caravan yep guessed it. a 10ft sprite almost 30 years old. the heaviest thing in it was him,
so I calmly replied yeah you could be right. mind you mine doesn't have to carry 40 stone before the vans on the back.