Cost of fuel

[otherclive]

Has anyone got any positive ideas as to how the world as a whole can reign in the ever increasing trend to 2.7 deg centigrade by the end of this century. I’d really like to feel that my grandkids and their kids too can live a good life, and kids in less well developed nations too.

 

[Buckman]

Has anyone got any positive ideas as to how the world as a whole can reign in the ever increasing trend to 2.7 deg centigrade by the end of this century. I’d really like to feel that my grandkids and their kids too can live a good life, and kids in less well developed nations too.

I am sorry but that is just a guess as no one not even a clever scientist knows if the temperature will rise or not. They are all models and theories to gain finances etc. I am sure that the earth was a lot warmer in the past than it is now.

I do agree however that we should at ways to cut back on pollution anyway and I mean all types of pollution.

 

[JezzerB]

Totally agree Parksy-they won't do anything meaningful.
Me I'd

Ban all whaling-whales massively reduce C02 by trapping it and then dying.
Ban nuclear power
Put some research into having some sort of plant-hydrogen or battery beside all solar and windmills so that xs is stored and they aren't paid to stop
Get cracking with water
Investigate other sources /methods-synthetic fuels
Make it law that every house now built had to have solar panels on them as standard
PAY Brazil to look after and expand the rainforest -not let it be destroyed backwardly
Sort the big polluters out somehow-America, India China, all need to do more-a small percent reduction in their emissions would make far more difference
Invest in CO2 scrubbing tech perhaps

Radical here and easy fix-reduce all motorway traffic to 60mph-would make massive savings.

Something of course needs doing with air transport-and shipping-hydrogen and synthetic fuels come to mind but .....? Am sure there are other things- but may be we stop trying to go to space and use some of that money to better save the planet.

 

[otherclive]

I am sorry but that is just a guess as no one not even a clever scientist knows if the temperature will rise or not. They are all models and theories to gain finances etc. I am sure that the earth was a lot warmer in the past than it is now.

I do agree however that we should at ways to cut back on pollution anyway and I mean all types of pollution.

I’m sure several billion years ago the world was an awful lot hotter than it is now. But I find it difficult to believe that all the scientific papers, research and actual measurements of temperature and C02 are all wrong. There will be degrees of variation but one thing that is consistent is that temperatures are warming and climatic events are increasing in frequency and intensity. The Hockey Stick curve shows it graphically as does the melting of sea ice and glaciers. Only an extreme optimist could hope to ignore the facts in the hope a new ice age crops up soon.

 

[Parksy]

I’m sure several billion years ago the world was an awful lot hotter than it is now. But I find it difficult to believe that all the scientific papers, research and actual measurements of temperature and C02 are all wrong. There will be degrees of variation but one thing that is consistent is that temperatures are warming and climatic events are increasing in frequency and intensity. The Hockey Stick curve shows it graphically as does the melting of sea ice and glaciers. Only an extreme optimist could hope to ignore the facts in the hope a new ice age crops up soon.

I'm more of an extreme cynic to be honest OC.
Prince Charles said that 'we must make critical change to the way that we live', and world leaders nod in agreement.
What they really mean is that 'You must make critical change to the way that you live, not us'.
Follow the money, who has business interests in the burgeoning green energy industry?
Climate change has taken place since the dawn of time.
The only thing that's really changed is that humans have become better at measuring it, especially in the 21st century.
Footage of the massive US Presidential motorcade travelling from the airport to Glasgow tells me all that I need to know about this Emperor's New Clothes situation in which the mega wealthy and powerful are convincing the plebs to give up our comfort and convenience to further enrich them, not us.
When I was at school, the scientific orthodoxy earnestly assured us that we were on the brink of a 'new ice age'.
This assertion went unchallenged.
Computer models continue to predict global catastrophe, the assertions thus generated go unchallenged.

 

[Buckman]

I’m sure several billion years ago the world was an awful lot hotter than it is now. But I find it difficult to believe that all the scientific papers, research and actual measurements of temperature and C02 are all wrong. There will be degrees of variation but one thing that is consistent is that temperatures are warming and climatic events are increasing in frequency and intensity. The Hockey Stick curve shows it graphically as does the melting of sea ice and glaciers. Only an extreme optimist could hope to ignore the facts in the hope a new ice age crops up soon.

Never said they were wrong, what I did say is that it is all guesswork based on suppositions and that is the best that they can do. On many occasions in the past great minds have been proven to be wrong.
For all we know the temperature could go in the opposite direction and temperatures could drop instead of rising. Maybe it was a lot warmer 1000 years ago than it is at present so maybe we are just returning to that temperature. No one knows!

 

[Ern]

I understand the Greta gang travelled from London to Glasgow by train, so that's good BUT the journey from Sweden and her other journeys? One thing I cannot figure out is why she hasn't travelled to Iran, China, Russia and other countries which are not participating in the carbon reduction effort, and given the leaders of those countries a good finger wagging, get some protests going.

 

[ProfJohnL]

There are several cyclic phenomena that collectively drive the average temperature of the earth up and down, and I wish I could remember which programme and the respected research article that described them.

There is plenty of evidence from the ice cap core samples and other indictors that very clearly show how the earth has experienced repeated hotter and cooler environmental conditions throughout history. Not only do they show the periods, but it also demonstrated the rates of change.

Whilst I do not subscribe to the theories that claim Man has caused global warming, becasue there are underlying cyclic events, but I do subscribe to the theory that Man is responsible for the unprecedented rate of rise of temperatures, which loaded on top of the natural cycles does look as though we are going to exceed previous warm periods both in absolute temperatures and the speed at which we do so and most likely for a longer portion of the cycle.

Yes we should be concerned, and even as a small individual if we can reduce our impact on the environment we should try to do so. Fundamentally we need to reduce our use of energy. Not only does that help the environment. it also costs less!

In almost all cases where we use energy in modest to large quantities, its function is to generate heat. In most cases there is still useful heat in the waste product. Once its been used for its initial purpose the heat is released to the atmosphere and lost.

Whilst I don't agree with the directaction of Insulate Britain, their suggestion is sound. Prevent the loss of useful heat wherever possible.

In my view, going forward we need to reduce our consumption of energy, by a combination of interventions.
Only use what we actually need.
To make sure what we use we use efficiently
To move towards renewables where the waste products can be re incorporated in a short re- cycle process to limit the use of long cycle (i.e fossil fuels)
We need to harvest energy in waste products
We need to prevent waste heat being lost by insulating

Generally there are several things we can do easily without reducing our standards of living significantly, Turning lights and other equipment off when it is not being used. Foregoing taking the car to get the papers when the shop is in walking distance.

Whilst each of these life tweeks may seem insignificant in the grand scheme, but remember a beach is a collection of grains of sand each is insignificant but en mass produces a beach.

Even if your example only encourages one other household it's still better than before.

 

[otherclive]

I understand the Greta gang travelled from London to Glasgow by train, so that's good BUT the journey from Sweden and her other journeys? One thing I cannot figure out is why she hasn't travelled to Iran, China, Russia and other countries which are not participating in the carbon reduction effort, and given the leaders of those countries a good finger wagging, get some protests going.

Not true. Iran, China, Russia are participating at COP26 and details of their delegations are available. Their heads of state will not attend but their delegations will no doubt have been briefed and will have lines back as required.

 

[Dustydog]

Cast your minds back to the Foot and Mouth problems of 2001. We were told by the scientific boffins kill and burn all the sheep , cows etc. History has shown the algorithm used by the Boffins was seriously in error and the mass funeral pyres and financial hurt to U.K. Agriculture was unnecessary and flawed. Covid -19 has proven the point too that the scientists forecasts are not correct.
So now I as a pensioner am being held to ransom by a minority of “ save the planet, kiss the trees “ people who do more pollution in one hour than I do in a year.

25,000 of the entourage have descended on Glasgow.200 plus Planes have flown in. Taxis, coaches and cars burning diesel have increased exponentially. And these are the “save the planet people”.


We really need a firm reality check and some intelligent substantiation to all this scare mongering.
I‘m so scared by all this mumbo jumbo I may have to consider Hara Kiri
as the only option. But no cremation please . Don’t want to pollute the air😉

 

[Jcloughie]

Regardless of if your are a sceptic regarding climate change, or not. One good thing, in my opinion, coming from the change in our use of fuel and our striving for better ways of using the recourses available. Is the reduction in pollution. I do not wish the smog to come back. I remember having to pick my niece up from nursery on the way back from school, I was about 14 she about 4. I had to carry her the one and a half miles home continually feeling for the next kerb and both wearing scarfs over out faces. City living in the 60's

John

 

[Parksy]

I bet that after a fortnight in Glasgow in November the hypocrites will be praying for 'global warming' 🤪

 

[Dustydog]

Regardless of if your are a sceptic regarding climate change, or not. One good thing, in my opinion, coming from the change in our use of fuel and our striving for better ways of using the recourses available. Is the reduction in pollution. I do not wish the smog to come back. I remember having to pick my niece up from nursery on the way back from school, I was about 14 she about 4. I had to carry her the one and a half miles home continually feeling for the next kerb and both wearing scarfs over out faces. City living in the 60's

John

Ah the Pea Soupers I enjoyed in the 50s in London. 😁 . Today even your log fire must use electrically heated kiln dried logs😁😁

 

[otherclive]

Ah the Pea Soupers I enjoyed in the 50s in London. 😁 . Today even your log fire must use electrically heated kiln dried logs😁😁

My son has kiln dried logs delivered by pallet and they are dried using hot water heated by a wood chip boiler. Other methods use wood gasification systems. Commercial timber kilns will use electrical heating sources.

 

[RogerL]

My son has kiln dried logs delivered by pallet and they are dried using hot water heated by a wood chip boiler. Other methods use wood gasification systems. Commercial timber kilns will use electrical heating sources.

That sounds like the opposite of perpetual motion - burning wood to produce heat to dry more wood so that it can be burnt.

 

[otherclive]

That sounds like the opposite of perpetual motion - burning wood to produce heat to dry more wood so that it can be burnt.

The wood that is burnt is primarily wood chips obtained from the bark of the timber, small branches etc plus wood chip from tree surgeons. Makes sense to me.

 

[Ern]

Not true. Iran, China, Russia are participating at COP26 and details of their delegations are available. Their heads of state will not attend but their delegations will no doubt have been briefed ..."

You are technically right because there are representatives from those countries at the conference, but my main point was that those 3 countries in particular as major contributors to the worlds' pollution could benefit from the help of young Greta encouraging their young people to stop going to school and become unruly protesters and make people angry (her words). I'm sure she would be looked after there - just fine. I am very cynical about her and her kind.
I am not cynical about the real issue of climate change, and believe we have to have discussion and agree ways of doing what we all know we must do. The amateur dramatics and posturing by politicians and some so-called celebrities is disgraceful hypocrisy and needs to stop. Pollution around Glasgow must be chronic tonight.[/QUOTE]

 

[JezzerB]

Me too Ern. Child exploitation? Great way of missing school? Who knows but at least she gets noticed.

 

[Dustydog]

Joe Biden and his entourage have allegedly caused more pollution in Scotland in One Day than the entire Scottish populace do in One Year😥
Realistically we are all aware and concerned about pollution and indeed have taken action in many areas. But some things now being suggested are a step too far. Surely burning wood chips to dry logs causes just as much pollution as burning the logs damp? Weird. Or are the chips kiln dried first😉

 

[otherclive]

Joe Biden and his entourage have allegedly caused more pollution in Scotland in One Day than the entire Scottish populace do in One Year😥
Realistically we are all aware and concerned about pollution and indeed have taken action in many areas. But some things now being suggested are a step too far. Surely burning wood chips to dry logs causes just as much pollution as burning the logs damp? Weird. Or are the chips kiln dried first😉

The aim of drying the logs is to reduce the emission of particulates which reduce air quality. With the plethora of wood burners it’s a significant factor in some areas., especially where they are older design appliances. We have four of the six surrounding houses have wood burners. Fortunately they aren’t used very often but if they are and there is washing out it then picks up the smell of woodsmoke. It was no different though at our last house adjacent to the Kennet and Avon canal.

Using wood clippings in a specifically designed boiler or gasification system doesn’t creat any additional CO2 as the nett amount released by cutting down the trees would be the same as if the logs were seasoned naturally then burnt. The boilers are designed to take unseasoned clippings and have pre and post burn features. At risk of “inflaming” 🔥the boaties on the canals or neighbours , my view is that wood burners and coal fires should be banned in residential areas unless a specific approval is applied for. But then who would police it, so insisting on kiln dried logs does go some way to reducing air pollution. If the costs of logs then goes up and the householders find them too expensive they will cut down on usage, just as when fuel prices rise.

 

[Buckman]

Using wood clippings in a specifically designed boiler or gasification system doesn’t creat any additional CO2 as the nett amount released by cutting down the trees would be the same as if the logs were seasoned naturally then burnt. The boilers are designed to take unseasoned clippings and have pre and post burn features. At risk of “inflaming” 🔥the boaties on the canals or neighbours , my view is that wood burners and coal fires should be banned in residential areas unless a specific approval is applied for. But then who would police it, so insisting on kiln dried logs does go some way to reducing air pollution. If the costs of logs then goes up and the householders find them too expensive they will cut down on usage, just as when fuel prices rise.

This boiler works very well on wood chippings and is cheaper to run for hot water than electric, gas or paraffin.

 

[RogerL]

This boiler works very well on wood chippings and is cheaper to run for hot water than electric, gas or paraffin.

But outputs CO2 like other energy sources and emits pollutant particles more than most sources.

The days of cheap energy are gone, we have to get used to that.

 

[otherclive]

This boiler works very well on wood chippings and is cheaper to run for hot water than electric, gas or paraffin.

Yes that sort of heater is used in a number of countries where conventional energy supplies are not readily available. We had one for hot water when on holiday in central India. Came on, or more accurately was lighted, around 0400, and sounded like a jet engine when first heating up.

 

[Buckman]

Yes that sort of heater is used in a number of countries where conventional energy supplies are not readily available. We had one for hot water when on holiday in central India. Came on, or more accurately was lighted, around 0400, and sounded like a jet engine when first heating up.

View attachment 2530

Hence the name Rocket. We found it to be very effective and water was always very hot. So much so that you had to add more cold water than hot water to be able to sit in the water. Very cheap to run especially if only showering LOL!

 

[Dustydog]

Eureka! Let’s fit one to our caravans and enjoy continuous hot water 😜😜