Cost of fuel

[Buckman]

I am told that our esteemed PM who was blathering on about climate change etc is using a private plane/jet to fly back to London to save time instead of using the train which would take 4 1/2 hours. What a hypocrite! No wonder people are dubious about all this "end of the world tomorrow" nonsense.

 

[Buckman]

Eureka! Let’s fit one to our caravans and enjoy continuous hot water 😜😜

Been done already as many statics in SA have them connected up. No fun having the power cut for a couple of hours every day for load shedding!

 

[Sam Vimes]

When it comes to using wood as a source of heating there are two issues that are of concern. The amount of C02 emissions (CO2e) and the amount of particulate matter that's released. The former is related to 'global warming/climate change' while the latter is a health concern.

For seasoned hardwood where the moisture content is less than 20% the C02e is considerably less than other forms of fuel. (https://nottenergy.com/resources/energy-cost-comparison/). Consider also that the source tree would have acted as a CO2 sink for many years. Wood burning is classed as carbon neutral because of this.

CO2e gets worse for unseasoned wood and earlier this year measures were put in place to restrict the sale of 'wet wood and coal' - the sort of stuff you see on the garage forecourt. Large amounts are still allowed providing advice is given on how to season it. Of course this relies on people actually doing it.

Burning 'wet wood' is not economical anyway as a lot of the potential energy goes into removing the moisture.

Partiuclate matter is a health concern but is not limited to wood burning. The effects on individuals will vary by location and also by wood type (wet/dry) and how this is burnt (open/closed fire/stove efficiency)

While the percentage of particulate matter of concern, PM2.5, is very high from wood burning sources it appears not to be the highest, with some reports still saying the traffic emmisions accounts for most of this.

On a lighter note even burnt toast is a source of PM2.5

 

[Dustydog]

We had an open hearth fire for years. A real pain but once going very cosy watching all the heat go up the chimney. Logs were bought locally, all green. Our log store shed was always full and the logs left for a year to naturally dry. They burnt well as did the hearth rugs!
Today , other than aesthetics it seems a pointless task to me.

 

[Jcloughie]

My next door neighbour and his father and brother are all chimney sweeps and wood burner fitters. It seems a busy business. He put a burner in his lounge and has since been collecting wood. Much of it green. But he has created covered and well aerated stores for it. I recon he has around 8 cubic metres all full up. Enough for years. He has the dry stuff separate to use first.

John

 

[otherclive]

We had an open hearth fire for years. A real pain but once going very cosy watching all the heat go up the chimney. Logs were bought locally, all green. Our log store shed was always full and the logs left for a year to naturally dry. They burnt well as did the hearth rugs!
Today , other than aesthetics it seems a pointless task to me.

When we moved into this house we had the open fire place removed and the chimney hearth completely re profiled to allow a high efficiency log effect gas fire to be installed. It saved the drudgery of cleaning out the ashes from wood or coal, and stopped heat loss up the chimney even with its ballon seal in place. Very handy to be able to get quick warmth on these transition days when full heating isn’t required. Plus additional fall back in the event boiler or electric aren’t available. We can keep one room warm.

 

[Buckman]

When we moved into this house we had the open fire place removed and the chimney hearth completely re profiled to allow a high efficiency log effect gas fire to be installed. It saved the drudgery of cleaning out the ashes from wood or coal, and stopped heat loss up the chimney even with its ballon seal in place. Very handy to be able to get quick warmth on these transition days when full heating isn’t required. Plus additional fall back in the event boiler or electric aren’t available. We can keep one room warm.

Personally I think seeing flames psychologically it makes you feel warm even if there is no heat coming off the fireplace?

 

[Elliehome2]

Not sure about places outside Worcestershire, but cost of fuel here as risen to the highest level in several years. Diesel is now £1.52 a litre and unleaded just a bit less. Certainly have to think before using either vehicle and do more Online shopping!

It costs me so much I tend to do little stops to gradually add fuel as I find it saves me more money but also I know where to find the cheap petrol stations. it is a nightmare though

 

[Raywood]

It costs me so much I tend to do little stops to gradually add fuel as I find it saves me more money but also I know where to find the cheap petrol stations. it is a nightmare though

I think that is not saving money, as you spend more getting on and off the forecourt than those of us who just bite the bullet and fill up. It may be worthwhile if you need a bit more to get to a far cheaper stop but otherwise no, particularly as the price keeps going up and the next refill will often cost even more.

 

[otherclive]

Not filled either of ours up yet since before the panic buying. But the lawn mower is desperate for fuel, so I will be on a 4court soon.

 

[audiorob]

Travelling up the M1 yesterday the gantry signs repeatedly reported that Tibshelf was out of fuel. However passing by Shell at Mastin Moor apparently had plenty at £165.9 for diesel! Ouch! Tibshelf appeared to have restocked as we came south later in the day!

 

[Beachball]

Just filled my car it now got a full tank £1.49..9 for diesel

 

[Dustydog]

This morning Tesco Cirencester £1.47. Will it get worse😥😥😥

 

[Buckman]

Just filled my car it now got a full tank £1.49..9 for diesel

We paid £1.479 at Esso station this morning so coming down.

 

[Jcloughie]

The news reported that £1.47 was the national average.

John

 

[Buckman]

Here is an interesting article by Lord Bamford of JCB fame. TBH I think it is the way forward instead of EVs.

 

[otherclive]

Here is an interesting article by Lord Bamford of JCB fame. TBH I think it is the way forward instead of EVs.

JCB have been looking at ways to “energise” their range of vehicles for quite a while and it’s no surprises that they feel hydrogen meets many of their needs. JCBs machines operate in completely different environments to cars and WVM etc. It’s why some train companies are also looking at hydrogen. for where lines are not fully electrified. Britain must be unique in having many of its newest long distance trains carting around Diesel engines for when they reach the end of the electrified lines but not their journeys end. Talk about minimising emissions and life cycle costs. Bizarre.

Toyota have said that they too feel hydrogen might be best for some categories of vehicle. It’s necessary to understand that there will not be a one size fits all.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The reason JCB are looking at Hydrogen is because in many places where their equipment is used there is often no ready electrical supply, and in many cases the equipment is in double shift use, so there would be insufficient time to recharge some of teh bigger machines between shifts.

There is also the problem that on most of their larger machines, there is insufficient space to carry enough battery storage to run the machine. It's in this set of circumstances where Hydrogen begins to make a case for itself. JCB looked at using hydrogen in a fuel cell and then to use electricity to actually drive the machines. Technically that would be possible now but, the problem is apparently fuel cells are presently too fragile to withstand the vibrations and stress earth moving machinery experience, so reliability might be compromised.

JCB's solution is to redesign their present diesel engines to run on pure hydrogen, which they have managed to do, and are presently evaluating the durability and reliability of the new parts, and apparently it is looking promising.

But there are still flies in the ointment. Production of Hydrogen for use as a mass fuel is still some way off. so getting supplies economically to sites is still a major concern. Even when or if it becomes more readily available it will still be a far more expensive option than today's Dino juice, so civil engineering jobs are going to become more expensive.

JCB's smaller models are a different proposition. Often only working normal hours in well serviced areas, they can be converted to battery power and recharged overnight.

JCB is a highly specialised sector and what might work for them is not necessarily appropriate for domestic car strategies. Until someone can find a truly cost effective means of producing hydrogen, it will not become a realistic alternative for most domestic vehicles.

 

[Ern]

I think for transport we will have a mixture of electric, diesel/petrol, hydrogen, each fuelling the most practical for its use. Off highway, Shipping and some public transport fleets are definitely a contender for H2. Electric buses and commercial vans for local work are already common. Covid has shown that a lot of business mileage and workers daily commutes were avoidable. The biggie is domestic and small business premises heating and insulation. Our houses are going to look like tea cossies.

 

[Beachball]

We paid £1.479 at Esso station this morning so coming down.

That great news cheaper for me if i need more fuel

 

[Ern]

The reason JCB are looking at Hydrogen is because in many places where their equipment is used there is often no ready electrical supply, and in many cases teh equipment is in double shift use, so there would be insufficient time to recharge some of teh bigger machines between working shifts.

There is also the problem that on most of their larger machines, there would be insufficient space to carry enough battery storage to run the machine. It's in this set of circumstances where Hydrogen begins to make a case for itself. JCB looked at using hydrogen in a fuel cell and then to use electricity to actually drive the machines. Technically that would be possible now but, the problem is apparently fuel cells are presently too fragile to withstand the vibrations and stress earth moving machinery experience, so reliability might be compromised.

JCB's solution is to redesign their present diesel engines to run on pure hydrogen, which they have manged to do, and are presently evaluating the durability and reliability of the new parts, and apparently it is looking promising.

But there are still flies in the ointment. Mass production of Hydrogen for use as a mass fuel is still some way off. so getting supplies economically to sites is still a major concern. Even when or if it becomes more readily available it will still be a far more expensive option than today's Dino juice, so civil engineering jobs are going to become more expensive.

JCB's smaller models are a different proposition. Often only working normal hours in well serviced areas, they can be converted to battery power and recharged overnight.

JCB is a highly specialised sector and what might work for them is not necessarily appropriate for domestic car strategies. Until someone can find a truly cost effective means of producing hydrogen, it will not become a realistic alternative for most domestic vehicles.

Hydrogen production plants are much less viable on a small scale, however this is an area where progress is already underway. Scaled down manufacturing plants could be very useful. JCB is a company in a massive sector of Earthmoving, Construction, Agricultural and Industrial Mechanical Handling machinery. Have a look at Linde Gas and Linde Engineering and their H2 portfolio. The other huge sector is Military Logistics.

 

[Elliehome2]

thanks

 

[otherclive]

The reason JCB are looking at Hydrogen is because in many places where their equipment is used there is often no ready electrical supply, and in many cases the equipment is in double shift use, so there would be insufficient time to recharge some of teh bigger machines between shifts.

There is also the problem that on most of their larger machines, there is insufficient space to carry enough battery storage to run the machine. It's in this set of circumstances where Hydrogen begins to make a case for itself. JCB looked at using hydrogen in a fuel cell and then to use electricity to actually drive the machines. Technically that would be possible now but, the problem is apparently fuel cells are presently too fragile to withstand the vibrations and stress earth moving machinery experience, so reliability might be compromised.

JCB's solution is to redesign their present diesel engines to run on pure hydrogen, which they have managed to do, and are presently evaluating the durability and reliability of the new parts, and apparently it is looking promising.

But there are still flies in the ointment. Production of Hydrogen for use as a mass fuel is still some way off. so getting supplies economically to sites is still a major concern. Even when or if it becomes more readily available it will still be a far more expensive option than today's Dino juice, so civil engineering jobs are going to become more expensive.

JCB's smaller models are a different proposition. Often only working normal hours in well serviced areas, they can be converted to battery power and recharged overnight.

JCB is a highly specialised sector and what might work for them is not necessarily appropriate for domestic car strategies. Until someone can find a truly cost effective means of producing hydrogen, it will not become a realistic alternative for most domestic vehicles.

Haven’t JCB recently signed a contract for hydrogen supplies?

 

[Bluetonic]

Haven’t JCB recently signed a contract for hydrogen supplies?

I thought they had too, from Australia?

ah, FOUND IT .
Green produced hydrogen shipped on dirty polluting cargo ships half way around the world. Sounds like a great idea

 

[Buckman]

I thought they had too, from Australia?

ah, FOUND IT .
Green produced hydrogen shipped on dirty polluting cargo ships half way around the world. Sounds like a great idea

Maybe they are using sail boats or nuclear powered cargo ships?