Cost of fuel

[ProfJohnL]

Whilst if the "Ballard" storage solution is good, or indeed any other storage solution, we still need to find a better, faster, cheaper method of producing H2 in quantity to cover the users. It does seem that H2 with its presently very limited forcourte presence might better suit organisations that have fleets, that consistently run the same routes or return to base at the end of shift, but for long distance roaming its still not a solution as Ern has suggested.

It will almost certainly depend on cost of production and providing the infrastructure to distribute it, whether H2 will begin to take off and become a viable alternative, but based on present knowledge there is no certainty that it will.

This is another situation where there may be more than one solution to our transport desires. It is of course entirely possible that we all have to cut back on personal transport.

 

[Buckman]

My nearest hydrogen station is 18 miles away. Need a few more.

However when petrol vehicles were in their infancy, the nearest fuel station could have been hundreds of miles away. Like everything else, it needs to start somewhere before becoming national.
BTW I do find your posts on the issue interesting even if they are repeats as we are all guilty of repeating ourselves and we do need reminders.

 

[otherclive]

However when petrol vehicles were in their infancy, the nearest fuel station could have been hundreds of miles away. Like everything else, it needs to start somewhere before becoming national.
BTW I do find your posts on the issue interesting even if they are repeats as we are all guilty of repeating ourselves and we do need reminders.

Agree.

Noseweight, Weight plates, and the dreaded 85%……discussions I tend to stay out of nowadays😀

 

[Sam Vimes]

As early as WW 1 times, maybe before, vehicles could run on coal gas. Not sure what Greta would make of that...

Coal gas powered Vehicles.

Douglas Self,

www.douglas-self.com

that.

 

[otherclive]

As early as WW 1 times, maybe before, vehicles could run on coal gas. Not sure what Greta would make of that...

Coal gas powered Vehicles.

Douglas Self,

www.douglas-self.com

that.View attachment 2549View attachment 2550

In Paris in WW2 there are pictures of cars with gas bags on their roofs. Very useful stuff coal; and “ plant derived” too. Nice picture as tram is electric. Even then it wasn’t one size fits all.

 

[Ern]

Brittany Ferries recently (I will try and find a link later) commissioned a ferry for the UK/Spain route, which was to run on gas. Not what one would expect!

 

[otherclive]

Heres the link U.K. to France routes

https://www.business-live.co.uk/enterprise/brittany-ferries-use-new-hybrid-21105059#:~:text=Cross-channel transporter Brittany Ferries is to replace two,routes connecting Portsmouth with St Malo and Caen.

Even if a ship continues to use diesel it can cut down on Emmisions by having its generators used for electrically powering hotel services and propulsion. The very large container. ships often only have one propulsion large engine but it is very high efficiency and as they do very long transits at steady speed they are efficient, and their requirements for other electrical services are quite low but they still need to run generators for those services. Most modern Royal Navy ships have integrated full electric propulsion which has improved considerably their fuel economy and hence emissions of those ships, whilst giving improved redundancy and resistance to battle damage.

 

[Ern]

I hope this link works.
Hydrogen appears to have an important future in the UK

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj07pb7vIP0AhXOgVwKHRt9CGAQFnoECCAQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fpublications%2Fuk-hydrogen-strategy&usg=AOvVaw2fsGTIkOQrYuKFuR_Knt9j

 

[Ern]

Heres the link U.K. to France routes

https://www.business-live.co.uk/enterprise/brittany-ferries-use-new-hybrid-21105059#:~:text=Cross-channel transporter Brittany Ferries is to replace two,routes connecting Portsmouth with St Malo and Caen.

Even if a ship continues to use diesel it can cut down on Emmisions by having its generators used for electrically powering hotel services and propulsion. The very large container. ships often only have one propulsion large engine but it is very high efficiency and as they do very long transits at steady speed they are efficient, and their requirements for other electrical services are quite low but they still need to run generators for those services. Most modern Royal Navy ships have integrated full electric propulsion which has improved considerably their fuel economy and hence emissions of those ships, whilst giving improved redundancy and resistance to battle damage.

One of the companies in the group I was employed by, produced diesel/gas powered electric traction off highway vehicles. Very efficient and reliable, and not as expensive to produce as it sounds, since there is no transmission or diff' as we know it.

 

[otherclive]

I hope this link works.
Hydrogen appears to have an important future in the UK

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj07pb7vIP0AhXOgVwKHRt9CGAQFnoECCAQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fpublications%2Fuk-hydrogen-strategy&usg=AOvVaw2fsGTIkOQrYuKFuR_Knt9j

Thank you a very interesting read. It’s quite surprising what is going on, and many times we aren’t aware if it as it’s not covered in newspapers or news. I listened to the head of Shell being interviewed. The company do intend to be carbon neutral by 2050, but still need to sell fossil fuels to fund the changeover.
He made the valid point that getting to 2050 carbon neutral is a transition not like throwing a switch. He questioned the illogicality of refusing new North Sea wells when transporting oil from the middle east or USA when using North Sea oil during the transition is a lower carbon, less costly approach. People do need to take the long view.

 

[JezzerB]

Totally agree-we've switched off our coal fired power stations and buy in electricity from abroad made sometimes by them too-all in the name of reducing our own CO2 figures-appalling imo !
In our local area I'm eagerly following and protesting the dumping of nuclear waste (currently shipped to Australia!! or stored on land at Sellafield) in a deep undersa shaft at Threddlethorpe, an SSSI site and neighboured by Mablethorpe, and Sutton on Sea-lovely coastal resorts . The council seem really keen but are arguing that perhaps a solar panel farm on the disused West Burton power station site-think concrete coal pads, and areas laid flat that had the generator rooms and cooling towers-might not be a good idea-how stupid can you get. The country has gone mad!

 

[Dustydog]

Didcot power station ran on pulverised coal. The German owners decided not to invest in flue gas desulphurisation equipment which would have allowed continued generation for many years using U.K. coal. The rest is history. The site is clear. We have again lost an asset and become reliant on other European providers😥😥

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have found this which you might want to spend 11 minutes watching.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_bTjcjqN6c

 

[Ern]

Thanks for that. Very interesting. The political bit is also revealing.

 

[Sam Vimes]

I came across an interesting APP called Nationalgrid ESO. Basically it provides the same data as the Gridwatch web site I mentioned previously but in a different format.

The two interesting features I've noticed are

• it can show the amount of Carbon Impact per region - currently Scotland is at 0 while the South is at 269 gCo2/KWh
• It can forecast (how?) the best time to use your electricity to be the cleanest.

The second is interesting but I'm not sure how practical for most people. Many, many years back when we had Economy 7 we would put things like the washing machine and dryer on timers - so you could do something like that to keep clean (pun intended)

 

[Buckman]

I came across an interesting APP called Nationalgrid ESO. Basically it provides the same data as the Gridwatch web site I mentioned previously but in a different format.

The two interesting features I've noticed are

• it can show the amount of Carbon Impact per region - currently Scotland is at 0 while the South is at 269 gCo2/KWh
• It can forecast (how?) the best time to use your electricity to be the cleanest.

The second is interesting but I'm not sure how practical for most people. Many, many years back when we had Economy 7 we would put things like the washing machine and dryer on timers - so you could do something like that to keep clean (pun intended)

i think the phrase Economy 7 is misleading as the daytime price increases significantly. We found it cheaper to have a standard rate as we are at home all day. Probably different for people who are working and not using electric during the day.

 

[ProfJohnL]

i think the phrase Economy 7 is misleading as the daytime price increases significantly. ...

In what way is Economy 7 misleading? It very clearly states in the supporting information the tariff supplies 7 hours of low cost electricity overnight. And that the day time tariff is higher. It's not any more misleading compared to any other tariff. Its up to the customer to decide if its a good choice of their lifestyle or not.

 

[Buckman]

In what way is Economy 7 misleading? It very clearly states in the supporting information the tariff supplies 7 hours of low cost electricity overnight. And that the day time tariff is higher. It's not any more misleading compared to any other tariff. Its up to the customer to decide if its a good choice of their lifestyle or not.

I am sorry that you did not understand the essence of my post. Perhaps if you read it again it may help you understand the point I was trying to make.

 

[otherclive]

I am sorry that you did not understand the essence of my post. Perhaps if you read it again it may help you understand the point I was trying to make.

Does Economy 7 revert to a tariff more expensive than the standard tariff rate ? My father had Economy 7 heaters which he could boost during the non7 times if he wanted. He rarely if ever did that, preferring to go to his partners house where she had inclusive heating in her rental. 😀

 

[Buckman]

Does Economy 7 revert to a tariff more expensive than the standard tariff rate ? My father had Economy 7 heaters which he could boost during the non7 times if he wanted. He rarely if ever did that, preferring to go to his partners house where she had inclusive heating in her rental. 😀

We were on E10 originally and then switched to E7. After doing sums we found out that having a standard rate was cheaper than using either E10 or E7.
However with E7 if you are away from the home during the day working and with heating turned down is then a good option. If you are at home all day and night i.e. retired then the standard rate is overall better and a bit cheaper.

 

[Dustydog]

Are there many homes still heated with those massive concrete filled E7 heaters? I recall them from decades ago as the electricity boards efforts to beat gas central heating costs. A far cry from the good gas central heating . Sadly today there are no winners other than the woolly jumpers sellers😎😎

 

[Bluetonic]

We were on E10 originally and then switched to E7. After doing sums we found out that having a standard rate was cheaper than using either E10 or E7.
However with E7 if you are away from the home during the day working and with heating turned down is then a good option. If you are at home all day and night i.e. retired then the standard rate is overall better and a bit cheaper.

My mum used to be on E7, the meter went a bit mad and would start the Economy bit at random times during the day. She would have a look "under the stairs" to see if she was being charged the lower rate, then turn on washing machine, dishwasher, vac the house etc

 

[Bluetonic]

Are there many homes still heated with those massive concrete filled E7 heaters? I recall them from decades ago as the electricity boards efforts to beat gas central heating costs. A far cry from the good gas central heating . Sadly today there are no winners other than the woolly jumpers sellers😎😎

We rented a friends cottage in Amble one February half term about 6 years ago that had those awful E7 heaters.
Bloody useless things, the house never got above brass monkeys even using boost most of the time. At least there was an open fire in the living room , we stayed in that room as long as possible

My boss has just moved in to a Flat and has E7 heaters, he's moving out again as soon as he can

 

[RogerL]

Are there many homes still heated with those massive concrete filled E7 heaters? I recall them from decades ago as the electricity boards efforts to beat gas central heating costs. A far cry from the good gas central heating . Sadly today there are no winners other than the woolly jumpers sellers😎😎

There must be many homes in the UK which aren't on a piped gas supply, when off-peak storage heaters are the only economical* option.

* relatively.

 

[Dustydog]

There must be many homes in the UK which aren't on a piped gas supply, when off-peak storage heaters are the only economical* option.

* relatively.

True but you do see a lot using LPG. and Oil.