Damp Repair No 2

[Gagakev]

Well finally got around to it, first the moan though,
this is the repair undertaken back in July 2012 by the dealer

Have removed the wheel spat and the wheel box to open a can of worms, it is of my opinion that the dealer never removed any of the above two items, and it is a fact they never replaced any of the wall board!! This is proven by peeling back the wallpaper they stuck over the top to hide the damp, so in reality all they did was to run a bed of sealant over the wheel spat (and the wallpaper). In fact the sealant is not on the other side of the van so is not needed as it is purely decorative. In doing this in my opinion they actually made it worse by not allowing any water that got in to escape. It travelled around the bottom of the wheel box which is fixed to the floor.
Any way first photo shows wheel box being removed,

Wheel box removed

The rotton floor from underneath

Oh and I split the wheel spat trying to get it off , ordered new one and two weeks delivery time.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

You're a braver man than I, Kev.

But good luck with it.

(Sue the dealer?)

 

[Gagakev]

You're a braver man than I, Kev.

But good luck with it.

(Sue the dealer?)

Thanks Sir Gabs, but to be honest I remember the saga I had with them last time, in short they (allegedly) paid the lions share and I paid nearly £400.00!!

As the saying goes if a jobs worth doing Do it yourself. at least I will know it will be done to a certain standard this time and I will be happier.

 

[Sproket]

Hi Kev
Now you have got the wheel box out, what are the damp readings % in the timber surround ?

 

[Gagakev]

Hi Kev
Now you have got the wheel box out, what are the damp readings % in the timber surround ?

The left side (there repair where you tested) off the scale hmy:
Right hand side off the scale hmy:
Rear timber, left, around 30% so hoping that will dry out and right of rear timber off the scale hmy:

 

[Sproket]

Hi Kev
Now you have got the wheel box out, what are the damp readings % in the timber surround ?

The left side (there repair where you tested) off the scale hmy:
Right hand side off the scale hmy:
Rear timber, left, around 30% so hoping that will dry out and right of rear timber off the scale hmy:

Well at least everything is still in one piece for you to take measurements from, before deciding where to start chopping the damaged wood out.
Annoying as it is, but at least you have found it before it crept farther into the floor.
Been there & done that

 

[Gagakev]

Hi Sprocket, dont mind the replacement timber bit, but think I will have to strip out the seating area
inside to replace the wall board which was covered up.

Here's a question will the polystyrene dry out eventually or will it hold the water?
replaced it on my last van but would rather niot if I dont have to.

 

[Sproket]

Have a read of this page 6

 

[Gagakev]

Had problems of how to dry out the internal wall sections and as it is not a large area didn't want to replace the wall board and polystyrene, so laying in bed the other night it came to me, re-attach the wheel box (arch) temporarily to enclose the van, dis-connected the blown air pipe's and divert the warm air onto the affected area.
Looking at the arch from the inside the right hand side has now come down to 18-20%. The left hand side is down to about 30% but only put the warm air onto it today so at the weekend I'm hoping to get it back together.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Kevin
if I remember correctly the dealer allegedly did a lot of work at a four figure sum and you contributed £400.
Looking at your pics I am struggling to see exactly what repairs the dealer did do..
If they didn't do the job properly then I suggest even two years on they may have some liability here.
I'm sure the Prof can help with his thoughts.
I'm just thinking before going any further it may be worth a punt to send the dealers pics so far and ask them exactly what it was they did 2 years ago.

 

[Sproket]

Hi Kev

At least it will be right when its fixed this time....

They must have been charging you storage last time it was supposedly repaired to get a four figure bill for the cost of a couple of tubes of sealant & a bit of plywood :dry:

 

[Gafferbill]

Hi Kevin.........I am admiring your excellent hard work but I am struggling to understand where all the damp is coming from?
Was the plastic inner wheel cover split ?
Water should not be able to get to the rotted area from wheel spay...... and even then towing in damps conditions is only a small fraction in the life of a caravan.
( I am not making any jokes here about your so called reputation )

Are there any internal leaks or condensation getting to the area involved?

 

[Gagakev]

Hi Kevin
if I remember correctly the dealer allegedly did a lot of work at a four figure sum and you contributed £400.
Looking at your pics I am struggling to see exactly what repairs the dealer did do..
If they didn't do the job properly then I suggest even two years on they may have some liability here.
I'm sure the Prof can help with his thoughts.
I'm just thinking before going any further it may be worth a punt to send the dealers pics so far and ask them exactly what it was they did 2 years ago.

Hi DD, thanks for the suggestion I did think about it at first but then remembered when I collected the van they gave me a 3 month guarantee on the work they carried out and I signed (rightly or wrongly) to say I accepted the condition.
Would be interesting to see what the Prof could suggest.

 

[Gagakev]

Hi Kevin.........I am admiring your excellent hard work but I am struggling to understand where all the damp is coming from?
Was the plastic inner wheel cover split ?
Water should not be able to get to the rotted area from wheel spay...... and even then towing in damps conditions is only a small fraction in the life of a caravan.
( I am not making any jokes here about your so called reputation )

Are there any internal leaks or condensation getting to the area involved?

Hi Bill, no the wheel box hasn't got any split's in it, think the damp and rot on the inner timbers were from the original repair where the dealer said they found a leak in pipe work and I took that as a pinch of salt thinking they were trying to make themselves look good. So if they didnt dry/repair it, it has festered over the past couple of years. But to add to that is the serious damp on the main frame at the bottom, if you look on the first photo and directly along from the bottom skirt rail is the problem, the wheel arch was not sealed properly so allowing water in and running down both sides to the bottom of the arch, drenching the main structure timber, this in turn is connected to the timbers you see in the photo. So with it being damp from the original repair it has helped to deteriorate even more.
Hope I have explained it so you understand it, bit tricky without a photo, will take one tomorrow and it will give you a better idea.

 

[Gagakev]

Hi Kev

At least it will be right when its fixed this time....

They must have been charging you storage last time it was supposedly repaired to get a four figure bill for the cost of a couple of tubes of sealant & a bit of plywood :dry:

Hi Sprocket, trouble was they used tooooooooooooo much sealant, when they TRIED to seal the wheel spat to the body(leaving gaps) this in turn trapped the water in and this had to go somewhere and the only route was for the main timbers to take the brunt of it.
Thing is the other side wheel spat has no sealant AT ALL on it , this allowing the water to run away.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thankyou DD for asking,

As ever its very difficult to see the detail of the problem remotely through the forum.

I have no doubt Kev has been as accurate as possible, but to be fair, what I can see from the pictures does not show with any certainty what has been described in the write up, consequently I cannot confirm or deny the alleged work carried out or the mechanism that has given rise to the rot setting in. However like DD I find it very hard to see how a repairer could have incurred four digit costs based on what you have exposed.

I think that rather than sending copies of your photo's to the dealer at this point, you should simply ask the dealer for a detailed breakdown of what they actually did to YOUR property and why.

Keep your evidence until you decide if you want to pursue the dealer further.

Like Gaffer and based on the photographs so far provided, I am also struggling to to see how the seal or otherwise on the wheel arch/spat would give rise to the apparent damage all around the floor joint with the arch especially directly above the axle beam, which is out of any direct spray from the wheel. This could be the result of an earlier leak which was mentioned.

So its far from clear what has actually happened here.

Now regarding your rights in respect of repairs done to your caravan. Assuming the main repair was carried out under manufacturers warranty or under SoGA you have the right to expect the repair would have restored the caravan to the condition as if the fault had never occurred.

You have the right to expect the repairing agent to remove all the faulty materials. and to replace them with defect free materials of the correct specification, using methods that are fit for purpose, and will give a durable result.

In a situation where it is not possible for a customer to make a detailed internal inspection of works carried out, the signing of works approval or acceptance form will not preclude the customer from making a further claim against a dealer if latent problem becomes apparent some time after the works have been completed.

Now whilst that may be the case, what unfortunately muddies the water is the increased age of the caravan. As any product ages, it runs an increasing risk of age related fatigue producing problems, and there is an increasing probability the product will suffer some damages. Where either of these types of risks might impinge on any part of the product they can equally impinge on a repaired part of a product, which means its more difficult to conclusively demonstrated the repairs were defective.

As the repair is over 6 months old, SoGA requires the customer to prove the the case. To get anywhere near that you will need to get an independent expert to produce a report that states the previous repairs were unsatisfactory and to cite the robust irrefutable evidence to support that contention. The problem now is you have dismantled part of the caravan which has destroyed some of the vital evidence of the effectiveness or otherwise of seals etc.

In practice I sincerely do not believe you have the conclusive evidence to pursue a SoGA claim.

You might do better by simply asking the dealer for help on this one by expressing disappointment that damp has reappeared in the area they had previously repaired. But by intervening in the product you may have made the dealer less inclined to help.

Good luck which ever way it goes.

 

[Dustydog]

Thanks Prof

Kev's case has a bit of déjà vu. Remember the Avondale case.That too failed under SOGA and the credit consumer act because we had lost continuity in the repair process and time was not on our side.

Kev,

On balance and taking in to account the Prof's thoughts I'd abandon any potential against the dealer. However as Prof says it would be interesting to see their job sheet.

Look on the bright side. You have gained some excellent damp repair skills

 

[Gagakev]

Thanks to Dusty and The Prof for your time, have decided not to pursue the matter, what would I gain anyway? even if they offered to continue the repair I wouldn't trust them anyway!!!! And to be honest the cost is minimal the worst case is the new spat (£70.00) which was my fault anyway, so few bits of wood and a few tubes of mastic albeit time consuming.

 

[Gagakev]

So time to crack on......

All the old wood removed

New treated wood in position

And out of curiosity what are these fixings called want to replace them if I can source new.

 

[Damian]

They are plastic rivets.

Have a look here: http://www.essentracomponents.co.uk/rivets-and-panel-fasteners?gclid=CPuu7JzUkcICFeHHtAodM0UAig

 

[Raywood]

Have to agree with the Prof on this one. Having started the work you have unfortunately probably lost some of the evidence needed to pursue the dealer. may still be worth having an expert report but it might be too late to prove anything.

 

[Gagakev]

They are plastic rivets.

Have a look here: http://www.essentracomponents.co.uk/rivets-and-panel-fasteners?gclid=CPuu7JzUkcICFeHHtAodM0UAig

Thanks Damien looks like they are the Push rivet type, will see if they do them in grey,

 

[Gagakev]

Have to agree with the Prof on this one. Having started the work you have unfortunately probably lost some of the evidence needed to pursue the dealer. may still be worth having an expert report but it might be too late to prove anything.

Thanks Ray just going to carry on now only the wheel box and spat to go back on.

 

[Sproket]

Kev

You are doing a

 

[Gagakev]

Kev

You are doing a