Diesel Euro IV particulate filter, additives and 75000 mile life

[Chris_374224489]

I was very surprised to learn that when the 2.0 Ford diesel is fitted to a C30 Volvo there is a small additional tank - which is filled at each service - that contains something which keeps the particulate filter from getting clogged by soot but which then means a new particulate filter is required at 75000 miles as it will then be blocked with ash.

As I have heard some nasty suggestions about the price of these particulate filters I am wondering how common this is. When the Volvo is fitted with the Volvo 2.5D engine no such problem arises.

Do all Ford 2.0 diesel applications have this problem or is there something special about using it in the Volvo?

What othet engines have the same issues?

 

[Icemaker]

my sisters citroen c8 has something along the same lines, she gets a warning coming up on the dash saying pollution filter problem, when she took it to the dealer they said a tank needed to be re filled even though the dcar had only done 30.000 miles. they did it under warranty but stated that the filter will need changing and the tank re charging again at around 60.000.

it seems to be a common thing on diesels these days from what i am hearing.

 

[Chrisbee]

On a 2.2HDI Citroen C5 every 50000 miles the filter needs changing and the fluid tank refilling. My local independent citroen dealer charges

 

[Del_374232870]

Our grand Cherokee has a particulate filter, but all that is requiered is a particular synthetic engine oil at servicing, down side is the brute takes 9 litres of synthetic oil.

 

[seth1]

perhaps you might expect this,as the ford tdci is basically an HDI unit anyway,due i think to the PSA partnership and Citreon use a dosing tank to keep their pm kat clean .although i was under the impression only the 2.2HDI used the dosing tank.bit strange really since their using EGR as well.

 

[vernon]

The handbook for a 2.0TDi VW Tiguan states:

"When the DFP warning lamp comes on, the DPF has become saturated with soot as a result of driving short distances. You should adopt a certain style to ensure the DPF is cleaned automatically. Drive for approx 15 minutes in 4th or 5th gear (auto box:S) at a speed of at least 60km/h and at an engine speed of between 1800 and 2500 rpm. - This will increase the temperature and burn off the soot in the filter"

Then adds

"If the warning lamp does not go out, take your vehicle to a specialist workshop to have the fault corrected"

 

[Chris_374224489]

I am not sure that everyone understands what is happening here.

There are two ways (at least) of dealing with the inevitable aoot build up in a diesel particulate filter.

1. The engine recognises when the particulate filter needs cleaning and adjust how it runs for a short while to clean the filter. It might ask you to drive differently to help the cleaning process. How often this is necessary will vary depending on your driving. No fuel additive is used & the filer life is as long as it does not fall apart.

2. Every time you refuel a small amount of additive is automatically added to the fuel to stop the soot building but this results in ash which cannot be disposed of & which will eventually block the filter whcih will then require replacing. On some cars this is a sevice item at every 50-75000 mls & on others it is as needed. As this can cost

 

[Icemaker]

Sorry chris where do you get the idea we dont understand ?. i thinks its pretty simple really, a question was asked about the dosing tank on a volvo diesel and others who know about this item me included have replied and stated exactely what you say we dont understand ?. ive seen the dosing tank on the citroen and ive been adviced that my s max 2.0 tdci allso has one. it is the additive within this tank that doses the fuel to stop the particulate filter getting clogged too quickly with soot but as the very first post states this will result in a build of ash and the resultant cost of replacement.

you may be correct in that some additives are supplied with the fuel we purchase but the question was about the dosing tank that seems to be fitted to most modern diesel cars.

 

[seth1]

Hi Chris,i think before long every maker will use the PM kat,and dosing tank.Its becoming a one horse race now.

Makers use each others engines,like badge engineering which no doubt you,ll well know.A tdci is based around an HDI which also is fitted in LR ,Jaguar,some fiat vans,later Outlanders.JTDS fitted in Fiats,Alfas,Vauxhalls,Saabs and from what i can gather the latest 2.0 JTD has adopted the system.

No doubt its a poor system,but were in that interim period were no one knows which way to turn for the best.I personly think its an easy way out to meet euro 5

 

[ChrisUK]

There is a long thead on this on the X Trail forum (http://www.x-trail-uk.co.uk/index.php) Puts you off a euro 5 engine. It seems that Euro 5 engines are not suitable for short journies! I wonder how the taxis get round it, perhaps they are OK as their engines are alway hot.

 

[ChrisUK]

I've just checked, my second choice is the Santa Fe which is Euro 4

 

[RogerL]

The DPF is needed to meet the requirement of Euro 5 which is compulsory for cars from 1st September 2009 so manufacturers are switching production from Euro 4 to Euro 5. Under Euro 5, diesels have to meet the same emission standards as petrols - up to now they've had concessions over soot and particulates but these are cancerous so need to be eliminated.

On motoring forums, the DPF is giving a considerable number of problems for a range of manufacturers.

It's likely that the Volvo C30, being a new model, has been developed to Euro 5 from the start - whereas older Volvos using the D5 will have been in production at Euro 4 and before - but they will have to change by September if the D5 is to continue in production ?

 

[Bryan_374360331]

I have an X-Trail which requires a thrash round the block every few thousand miles to put out the little soot warning light. Not a problem, and better than a nasty non-optional bill at 75000 miles or whatever.

Anyway, it shouldn't affect a car towing a caravan...

 

[Bryan_374360331]

I have an X-Trail which requires a thrash round the block every few thousand miles to put out the little soot warning light. Not a problem, and better than a nasty non-optional bill at 75000 miles or whatever.

Anyway, it shouldn't affect a car towing a caravan...

and to think I nearly bought an S-Max - close escape, that.

 

[xtrailman]

The new xtrail has a PDF, if the PDF dash light comes on you have to run the car at a speed above 40mpg, or 45 not sure will check.

To clean the filter soot build up, if this fails its a expensive trip to the dealer. As i understand it.

The mazda 6, has had problems to what i've read.

And yes i'm one who don't yet understand the dosing tank system, but i have no doubt i will find out.

I really think the combustion engine has lived its life span. That or this green thing is getting a bit silly?

 

[ChrisUK]

Silly YES, when you have to thrash a car around consuming fuel, just to turn off a green light.

 

[Bryan_374360331]

Of course it's silly Chris, but it can be enjoyable too...

I'll allow it's awkward if the light comes on when you're in a motorway jam or a city.

 

[xtrailman]

Bryan

Not had the dash light on yet, how often does come on?

 

[TD42]

Ray it's dependant on how you use your car If you regulary use the motor way & maintain a constant speed of 40mph or more for around 40 min it will not come on.

My 2003 c5 2.2 had replacement particulat filter & fluid at 57k as a precaution although the warning lights had not appeared. if the Eloy's fluid is replenished before the warning then it does not need resetting by the dealer(2 different warnings 1,for top up of fluid 2,for replacement of filter)

 

[Glenn_5132962]

There was a program on one of the discovery channels the other day about this. The liquid in the tank is injected into the exhaust pipe downstream of the DPF. Its purpose is to chemically react with the exhaust gas thus converting one harmful gas into something else. This then passes through some some of cat converter. So these new diesels have both DPF & a CAT in the exhaust if they have the fluid tank.

No wonder they don't do as much mpg as they used to.

 

[xtrailman]

This link explains the filter system.

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html

 

[Bryan_374360331]

Bryan

Not had the dash light on yet, how often does come on?

The light's been on twice or three times in 17000 miles. Gentle driving is the culprit! Driving about 10 miles at 60-70 mph (with a few slow-downs for villages etc) puts it out, but maybe not until the engine is started again. I don't do much dual carriageway driving round here, so maybe other drivers never see this light at all.

Bry

 

[seth1]

What amazes me is,it only seems to be vehicle makers who are making the effort with globle warming,take a look at some old goods trains fitted with Deltics,admittedly from the 60,s but still running, their exhaust smoke is like black paint.I came back from Ireland very recently on the freight ferrie,same again pure unburnt diesel exiting the funnels.Take a 747 for instance tonnes of wasted fuel per trip.

Surely the latest wave of newly fitted technologie on cars ie PM cats,dosing tanks,two oxogen temp sensors-one upstream and one downstream of the filter,and much more is a money making pit or is it a quick fix?After all a certain engine maker has just released an engine with just EGR that meets euro 6 or in the states EPA 10.