Dometic fridge igniter won't push in

[Tel7]

Hi all,

We've recently bought a 2010 Bailey Pegasus 554 caravan which I think has a Dometic RML8550 230v 12v LPG Gas Caravan Fridge. We don't have mains power in the current location, so for the first time, I'm trying to run the fridge on gas, but when I try to press the igniter button (grey button to left of gauge) it doesn't move. I followed the instructions in the manual, which was to hold the temperature control in first. I think the button has a small battery inside it, and I know how to remove it, but doing so also requires the igniter to be pushed in which isn't happening.

Has anyone else seen or heard of such a problem?
Any ideas what causes it and how to fix it or a more appropriate place to get advice?

Here's a still photo of the fridge and here's a video showing the problem. and here are the manuals. (Note: I didn't bother holding the temperature control dial in for the video, but I have the same problem when I do.)

Thanks.
Terry
P.S. I also posted this on a different website forum here but no one there seems to have seen this so they are just guessing at causes and solutions, so I decided to try on this forum.

 

[otherclive]

I’m sorry but I can’t give advice on your particular problem, but even though I tended to use sites with EHU I always tested gas appliances before each trip out as you never know when site electrics might be down. Hope you get it resolved soon.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Terry,
Welcome to the forum

First of all thank you for giving us a good spread of information about the appliance, Its very refreshing and allows us to be more focused with our replies and advice.

I have checked up on the instruction manual for your fridge. Specifically the model number you give RML 8550 tells me its a manual piezo ignition system.

The piezo is the push button which does have a moderately strong spring which when you press it, it should move and at the bottom of the stroke you should hear (and feel) a loudish click which if everything is working correctly will produce on spark.

Normally with these devices you need to press the button several times in quick succession whilst the gas control valve (left of the piezo button) is also held pushed in to by pass the the flame failure device.

The galvo meter to the right will swing across when a flame has been established and you can then release the gas control valve and set it to your desired setting position.

if as you describe the Piezo button will not push in, it suggests it has either seized or been damaged, and the piezo unit may need to be repaired or replaced.

 

[Tel7]

I’m sorry but I can’t give advice on your particular problem, but even though I tended to use sites with EHU I always tested gas appliances before each trip out as you never know when site electrics might be down. Hope you get it resolved soon.

Good plan, Clive.
It's a good tip which could help avoid the igniter button from getting stuck due to lack of use after I get it unstuck.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Tel7

Welcome.
I have the same fridge and have experienced the same problem.
The battery corroded and gets jammed inside the housing.
Looking at your video the push button appears stuck in the pushed in position.
With some gentle persuasion you should be able to twist the button anti clockwise and pull it out.
You will then see a meta tube which holds the battery. That will be seized. Use some penetrating fluid overnight and remove the battery AAA.

See this

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1032246113850329

View: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1032246113850329&surface_type=vod&referral_source=vod_deeplink_unit

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Tel7

Welcome.
I have the same fridge and have experienced the same problem.
The battery corroded and gets jammed inside the housing.
Looking at your video the push button appears stuck in the pushed in position.
With some gentle persuasion you should be able to twist the button anti clockwise and pull it out.
You will then see a meta tube which holds the battery. That will be seized. Use some penetrating fluid overnight and remove the battery AAA.

See this

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1032246113850329

View: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1032246113850329&surface_type=vod&referral_source=vod_deeplink_unit

On the basis that Tel7 is correct with his description of the fridges model number RML8550 as defined in the instruction manual It has a manual piezo ignitor , not a battery operated electronic igniter. Thus it wont have a battery.

 

[Dustydog]

On the basis that Tel7 is correct with his description of the fridges model number RML8550 as defined in the instruction manual It has a manual piezo ignitor , not a battery operated electronic igniter. Thus it wont have a battery.

A bit like HMG web sites 😉
I’ll post a photo of mine this weekend. Same model . But as we both know manufacturers do change their specs without warning.

 

[toad a caravan]

As Piezo ignitors have been mentioned I needed one for my gas heater,I replaced it for one off my heater that I use in my "man cave',the type that have a cylinder in the back,I checked on several sites that sell the ignitors ,found a variety of places,also they are used on equipement for mobile catering at a cheaper cost

 

[ProfJohnL]

A bit like HMG web sites 😉
I’ll post a photo of mine this weekend. Same model . But as we both know manufacturers do change their specs without warning.

Unlike the genesis of the Gov. web site where most of the pages are vast simplifications of the Acts and Regulations, drafted by minions rather than the origional authors of the underlying documents,

The Dometic empire is a far more compact organisation than the UK government and all its different departments, and because of the way gas appliances have to be designed and manufactured under EU and international regulations, they should ensure that technical documentation about gas appliance's has to be checked by the design and technical departments before it is published. I have a much higher confidence in the accuracy of the Dometic publication than the Gov web site accuracy.

Specifically on page 13 of the manual it lists all the Dometic RM models and the last two columns define if its a Piezo manual or an automatic ignition for the model.

RML 8550 is a manual piezo
RML 8551 is an automatic igniter.

The two models may look identical, but igniters are different.

 

[Dustydog]

Amazing Prof.
Frankly it’s Friday and I really can’t be bothered .
I have exactly the same model as the OP. The RML 8550 . No one has mentioned anything else.
Here’s the photos just now of my battery powered igniter.
Bailey via their spares dept specifically sell the new battery powered igniter system for the RML 8550 as do a number of other suppliers.

I will stand corrected on one point . The grey button attached to the metal canister is removed by turning clockwise and replaced and fixed by turning 90degs anti-clockwise once the ears have entered the little slots.

Dometic Fridge Igniter Battery - RML 8330 / RML 8550 - 207999325 - Dometic - Caratech Caravan Parts

Dometic Fridge Igniter Battery. For RML 8330 and RML 8550 Models. Body Size 65 x 37 mm. Product Code -207999325. Replaces 292302482.

caratechcaravanparts.com

Even the OP mentions a battery😉

 

[ProfJohnL]

Amazing Prof.
Frankly it’s Friday and I really can’t be bothered .
I have exactly the same model as the OP. The RML 8550 . No one has mentioned anything else.
Here’s the photos just now of my battery powered igniter.
Bailey via their spares dept specifically sell the new battery powered igniter system for the RML 8550 as do a number of other suppliers.

I will stand corrected on one point . The grey button attached to the metal canister is removed by turning clockwise and replaced and fixed by turning 90degs anti-clockwise once the ears have entered the little slots.

Dometic Fridge Igniter Battery - RML 8330 / RML 8550 - 207999325 - Dometic - Caratech Caravan Parts

Dometic Fridge Igniter Battery. For RML 8330 and RML 8550 Models. Body Size 65 x 37 mm. Product Code -207999325. Replaces 292302482.

caratechcaravanparts.com

Even the OP mentions a battery😉

I was not aware that Bailey modify the fridges they receive from Dometic. It would almost certainly be cheaper to by the RML8551 than to pay some one to modify the manual model.

Enjoy your weekend.

 

[Martin_E]

I was not aware that Bailey modify the fridges they receive from Dometic. It would almost certainly be cheaper to by the RML8551 than to pay some one to modify the manual model.

Enjoy your weekend.

Bailey don’t modify them, they are standard fridges, I think in two variants

 

[Hutch]

Come on lads , until we know which fridge is fitted, we don't know what the ignition system is .
We are here to help folk, NOT, I think I know more than you do.

The fridge might have been changed for a different model.

 

[IanB1485]

I have never seen a battery ignitor like that on a fridge , so thanks for the heads up and I hope the OP gets it sorted

 

[Dustydog]

Come on lads , until we know which fridge is fitted, we don't know what the ignition system is .
We are here to help folk, NOT, I think I know more than you do.

The fridge might have been changed for a different model.

The OP was very specific Hutch and described exactly my model. Hence my photos .

Terry
Open the door wide and look underneath the control panel. You will two small Phillips screws.
1. Turn both control knobs to the off position then pull them off their shaft. If they tight you met need to use pliers for grip. You can use some tape to protect the knob surface

2. Remove the two small screws

3. Carefully pull the entire black top panel towards you. The galvanometer will drop out but two black wires will remain connected.

5 Gently let the panel hang. You will now see the entire ignition unit including the button.

6 Twist clockwise 90 degs and it should pull out.

Please let us know how you get on

 

[Martin_E]

If it is the battery type you don’t need to remove the front panel, you can sometimes remove the button with a small amount of pressure then turn/ twist the button, you can also achieve the same with a bit of bluetac on your thumb/finger or a small screwdriver in the flat horizontal part of the Z on the button, all three options require a small amount of inward pressure so the button goes part way in. Same with most things gently does it

 

[Dustydog]

If it is the battery type you don’t need to remove the front panel, you can sometimes remove the button with a small amount of pressure then turn/ twist the button, you can also achieve the same with a bit of bluetac on your thumb/finger or a small screwdriver in the flat horizontal part of the Z on the button, all three options require a small amount of inward pressure so the button goes part way in. Same with most things gently does it

That’s true Martin
However if as happened to me the battery corrodes and the grey plastic extension detaches from the metal canister holding the battery. Hence why the OP may possibly need to remove the front panel. 20 seconds.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Come on lads , until we know which fridge is fitted, we don't know what the ignition system is .
We are here to help folk, NOT, I think I know more than you do.

The fridge might have been changed for a different model.

As ever we are dependant on the accuracy of the information we are given, and in this case Tel7 was fairly specific in his first post.

He also stated that in his instructions "he thinks" there may be a battery behind the knob, i.e. he does not know. However having reviewed the manufacturers instructions, I found them to be a little confusing partly because they cover more than twenty models, and in my opinion do not differentiate between them well enough in layout of the manual, so I can see how Tel7 may have come to the conclusion that his RML8550 fridge MAY have a battery behind the knob.

Of course its not beyond the possibility the fridge may have been converted from Piezo to auto ignition by a previous owner, we do not have access to be able to check this.

I know from my own experience of working for a manufacturer of gas appliances how sensitive the accountants are about model identity for tracking costs and profit margins. The RML8550 is a specific model which would have only left Dometic with a piezo ignitor. The auto model was the RML8551, and would have probably had a retail price difference of £30 or more over the manual model.

For that reason I am pretty certain Dometic would not have got the model identity wrong.

So based on the information we have been given and the presumption it is accurate, Tel7's fridge should have a manual piezo ignition.

I am posting this to avoid confusion, not score points!

 

[otherclive]

As ever we are dependant on the accuracy of the information we are given, and in this case Tel7 was fairly specific in his first post.

He also stated that in his instructions "he thinks" there may be a battery behind the knob, i.e. he does not know. However having reviewed the manufacturers instructions, I found them to be a little confusing partly because they cover more than twenty models, and in my opinion do not differentiate between them well enough in layout of the manual, so I can see how Tel7 may have come to the conclusion that his RML8550 fridge MAY have a battery behind the knob.

Of course its not beyond the possibility the fridge may have been converted from Piezo to auto ignition by a previous owner, we do not have access to be able to check this.

I know from my own experience of working for a manufacturer of gas appliances how sensitive the accountants are about model identity for tracking costs and profit margins. The RML8550 is a specific model which would have only left Dometic with a piezo ignitor. The auto model was the RML8551, and would have probably had a retail price difference of £30 or more over the manual model.

For that reason I am pretty certain Dometic would not have got the model identity wrong.

So based on the information we have been given and the presumption it is accurate, Tel7's fridge should have a manual piezo ignition.

I am to avoid confusion.

I look forward to the OPs feedback when the issue is resolved.

 

[Tel7]

On the basis that Tel7 is correct with his description of the fridges model number RML8550 as defined in the instruction manual It has a manual piezo ignitor , not a battery operated electronic igniter. Thus it wont have a battery.

Thanks John.
I'm confused.
The piezo igniters don't need or have a battery, right?
Page 11 Operation Manual shows the RML 8550 has a Piezo Ignition.
Then Page 12 has a diagram that says "RMx 8xx0 / Battery igniter" on the right. Doesn't that mean the RML 8550 should have a battery igniter?

 

[otherclive]

Thanks John.
I'm confused.
The piezo igniters don't need or have a battery, right?
Page 11 Operation Manual shows the RML 8550 has a Piezo Ignition.
Then Page 12 has a diagram that says "RMx 8xx0 / Battery igniter" on the right. Doesn't that mean the RML 8550 should have a battery igniter?

The only way to resolve this question is to remove the igniter.

 

[Beachball]

Hi Terry Welcome to the forum sorry I cannot answer your question but others will give you the help you need enjoy

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thanks John.
I'm confused.
The piezo igniters don't need or have a battery, right?
Page 11 Operation Manual shows the RML 8550 has a Piezo Ignition.
Then Page 12 has a diagram that says "RMx 8xx0 / Battery igniter" on the right. Doesn't that mean the RML 8550 should have a battery igniter?

If you recall I did say the manual in my opinion was confusing. And here is great example of this;

First of all I will refer you to page 10 of the Operation Manual you have identified, where it breaks down how model number defines the product you have. The last figure in the part defines how the energy source and the ignition is managed:-
0= manual energy selection + manual ignition
(battery igniter)
1=manual energy selection, automatic ignition(MES)
5=automatic and manual energy selection, automatic ignition (AES)

But in the table on page 11 the last but one column clearly states RML8550
"Ignition Piezo"

A piezo ignition is a purely a mechanical device that requires the user to physically push a button which compresses a spring and at the end of the buttons travel, the spring is release which causes a small mass to strike a piezoelectric crystal. when struck these crystals generate an electric charge which can reach several thousand volts enough to create a spark hot enough to ignite a gas air mixture. No Batteries are needed.

However I do admit I haven't worked on one of these fridges for a long time, as it was not one of our products, and having re read the manual there is an alternative interpretation of the information on page 10.

The description of the final part number digit refers to "
manual ignition (battery igniter) " I assumed this to mean it requires manual intervention every time the flame needs to be ignited, but it does not define the process used. The fact the last two columns in table on page 11 differentiates the types of Ignition as "Piezo and Automat(ic)" to me was indicative that the manual option was a "piezo" And checking for availability of spares a Piezo ignitor is identified in the Dometic parts list.

But it has occurred to me there are two types of electronic ignitors used by other manufacturers There are devices that produce a series of sparks whenever power is applied. If this was the type used in the fridge it would require the user to press a button every time they wanted to light the flame. Some cookers use this type of electronic igniter. The sparks are only produced when you press the button, so it could be called a "manual ignitor" In the case of a fridge using this type of ignition, the gas would continue to burn on a pilot burner so the next time the fridge needs to be chilled the flame does not need to be reignited.

But there are also more advanced fridges that where the fridge fully automatically selects the energy source and when to turn the gas on or off, which it does to control the temperature, so each time these fridges need to chill using gas, the control system has to turn on the gas, and start the ignitor. But it also needs to recognise when the flame has been established so it can stop the ignitor from constantly ticking. These are technically called ignitor's as they have the means to detect when a flame is present. These are used where full cycle gas control systems are used.

Dometic in their table of page 11 Specify Piezo, Perhaps it is a misprint - lost in translation, but that is what I based my previous assertions on. It is a misprint I'm sorry, I'm not responsible for their documentation. But as an engineer I took the information that was available.

It is therefore possible the manually operated fridge might have an electronic spark generation system fitted that is controlled by a manual switch that requires a battery.

 

[Dustydog]

Alleluia!

Where a lot of posters went wrong , they were quoting from manuals that were printed and issued two years after the OP caravan was made.
2010-v- 2012.

My ,and I am certain the OP, Dometic manual is dated 05/2007.

Bailey have confirmed they Do NOT modify Dometic fridges nor in Law are they allowed to as gas is involved.

The attached photos explain the type,of ignitions used , as also described by the Prof above . My photos are from the correct year.

Thus I maintain all my previous posts were honestly ,and correctly technically stated.

I promise I didn’t make up the photos of my battery powered ignition button 😇

 

[Gafferbill]

.......this seems to be the norm now on this forum.
Someone posts a technical problem and another poster recognises that problem and has the most likely solution normally through experience.
That poster then struggles to be heard over other well meaning posters who to be blunt, are just guessing and confusing the OP who had the problem.

I applaud your persistence
Dustydog.👏