Whilst I agree, wouldn’t you think that at least one CEO would check other manufacturers reviews & think, ‘hang on, let’s get our fingers out & do better than the competition so we get a bigger slice of the market’?
Could happen, though historically its not been needed so far; as implied its in our gift to precipitate it, or try.
IMO, like the UK car industry it will fail to see in time, really hope for those that work for the owners of the caravan builders it pans out differently.
Think more likely the lucrative alternative to build houses on the factory sites will be way too appealing to the land owners involved.
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On reflection there have historically been some "do it better" moments, but these have been in the build technology rather than the execution/quality control of the process; notably here Elddis development of their bonded system "Solid", Bailey's into their permutations of "Alu-Tech", and Swift briefly into their bonded woodless system that they offered for a while before pulling it.
All sadly IMO let down by the sloppy attention to doing the build executions properly time after time. Plus, the contractual model they have with their dealers and that in turn playing through to how they treat their end customers.
A lack of interest in where the money really comes from and with it, at least in a normal market place where there is a need to be attentive to "please". However, on this last point, "a normal market place" UK caravanners collectively seem to buck market normality and be content to buy into the same deficient issues repeatedly.
Technically on top of all this, again IMO the adoption and steadfast retention by some with the use of ABS plastic for integrity critical body items where failure levels are so high because of the inherent nature of the product. Particularly its aging, degradation from UV and intolerance of stressing, make for high levels of water ingress damage to the van's critical structure. Basically, used as it is designing in high levels of failure. As elsewhere ABS can be used to good effect for styling finishers, but only where they play no part in the integrity of the product itself.
All said, IMO they face having the wrong product for the emerging market, we simply will not be able to lug our ever bigger boxed home from home around in the not to distant future. New products or a disguised reincarnation of an old one will be the only products viable in a mass market.
All sadly IMO let down by the sloppy attention to doing the build executions properly time after time. Plus, the contractual model they have with their dealers and that in turn playing through to how they treat their end customers.
A lack of interest in where the money really comes from and with it, at least in a normal market place where there is a need to be attentive to "please". However, on this last point, "a normal market place" UK caravanners collectively seem to buck market normality and be content to buy into the same deficient issues repeatedly.
Technically on top of all this, again IMO the adoption and steadfast retention by some with the use of ABS plastic for integrity critical body items where failure levels are so high because of the inherent nature of the product. Particularly its aging, degradation from UV and intolerance of stressing, make for high levels of water ingress damage to the van's critical structure. Basically, used as it is designing in high levels of failure. As elsewhere ABS can be used to good effect for styling finishers, but only where they play no part in the integrity of the product itself.
All said, IMO they face having the wrong product for the emerging market, we simply will not be able to lug our ever bigger boxed home from home around in the not to distant future. New products or a disguised reincarnation of an old one will be the only products viable in a mass market.
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How long before a manufacturer starts selling direct to end user,through stand alone showrooms ?
With their massive levels of after sales attention needed to their products, I see that presenting them and buyers with big issues.
Could be cured by paying approved workshops/etc attractive levels to rework the vans, though the high need to rework vans coupled with the higher funding to sort these number of vans is likely to be huge.
Better, IMO to build them soundly in the first place, and to reshape their attitude to the end buyer, acknowledging the blindly obvious, where the money actually comes from. However, it also needs us as buyers to wake up.
Probably a Chinese manufacturer!
Various car brands have tried the agency model and then abandoned it - Daewoo, Genesis, Polestar and VW Group - but most Mercedes dealers are owned by M-B themselves.
I agree but in my dreams I can see a high quality product, sold direct to end user, low warranty claims and an attractive margin for the seller as no middle men to pay, it is happening in consumer electricals, see Dyson, G Tech etc,perhaps an opportunity for Chinese makers, just look at how their car industry is developing in UK
Anyway, just had our caravan serviced by the local mobile guy & his most common problems are with Elddis’s. He reckons they’ve got worse since Hymer took over, which I find strange.
"Strange" possibly, but IME buying them over two decades, Hymer, even the mainstream brand were not the original quality builders even in the latter years of the family ownership, let alone whatever now they have become once sold out of the family's control.
Likely because the costs to keep up the earlier quality standards was thought too be high, but again possibly that was miss judged though as I expect their market was always somewhat limited to those prepared to pay a premium for that quality? I don't know that market sits back and accepts poorer standards, but more likely simply moves on elsewhere.
We get told "quality sells", but that can only ever be to those that can afford to.
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- Sep 4, 2011
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Had 2 brand new Elddis and both leaked at two years old. Split panels,why they still use ABS I don’t know.The first one we got rid of and went back to Swift, But unfortunaly it got damaged whilst on a site only on second time of use.Needed another caravan quick as had more holidays booked and only new caravan layout we wanted available was another Elddis. Against better judgment had to settle with that and bought it, Two years later damp struck again. Got rid of it for another new Swift and vowed would not even consider Elddis and also our dealer had dropped selling them. Had Swift caravans ever since and all been totally good caravans. Latest one bought 2023 will be our last as now in our 80’s
Pretty end panel styling comes on mass produced caravans "cheaply", so its an easy natural choice for makers where corporately its technical suitability is not a consideration.
A reasonable chance it will get off the forecourt before it fails.
Then I understand with some brands it only needs to last, or more likely its failure go unnoticed, just one year to clear a possible enforceable warranty claim!
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There's nothing wrong with ABS - as long as it's fitted to a rigid structure and isn't designed as stress-bearing - the problem with using it on caravans is that sometimes it's used as a stress-bearing panel - but even when it isn't stress-bearing, caravans flex when being towed and this causes the ABS to crack.
Exactly, which as here it can and frequently is used in applications where its watertight integrity is paramount to the caravan's ongoing viability, it is fundamentally the wrong choice.
Brilliant as a simple non integrity critical styling finisher[ eg in cars bumpers] where water tightness is not that important, its fixing have the properties of ABS taken into account and relatively the underlying structure is not flexing.
Completely wrong in caravans where towing them causes all manner of significant flexing, and here compounded by the fixing of the ABS panels not being designed with that substrate flexing in mind.
IMO the warranty often offered on caravan ABS panels reflect the van builder's knowledge of its inherent lack of suitability, as they use it.
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- Jun 20, 2005
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I believe the mainstream U.K. manufacturers no longer use ABS front and rear panels. Most are now roof continued aluminium to seamlessly include front and rear panels. Swift use GRP, not sure which direction Elddis and Coachman took.
My 15 year old still has her original ABS panels. Failures years ago were mainly caused by incorrect assembly . Instead of drilling full sized pilot holes the screws were used as the drill through the panel edge. This caused stress fractures which caused the cracking failures.
The original DeHavilland Comet used ‘punched” rivets through the aluminium panels resulting in cracking and all the failures.
The caravan manufacturers always reinvent the wheel for good looks rather than use🙀
My 15 year old still has her original ABS panels. Failures years ago were mainly caused by incorrect assembly . Instead of drilling full sized pilot holes the screws were used as the drill through the panel edge. This caused stress fractures which caused the cracking failures.
The original DeHavilland Comet used ‘punched” rivets through the aluminium panels resulting in cracking and all the failures.
The caravan manufacturers always reinvent the wheel for good looks rather than use🙀
- Nov 11, 2009
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My S5 Bailey had a front and rear panel changed under warranty. As you say it was incorrect production practices. I didn’t have any damp and it was my dealer , Chipping Sodbury Caravans, who spotted it and arranged the warranty repairs. It was my first caravan with ABS panels and it never even dawned on me to look for such defects on a caravan only 12 months old.
On my 1992 Abbey which has a GRP front and ABS rear panel,that if removed the rear panel would expose a timber frame,it incorporates the rear lights and the outer window seals,it is held in place by the awning rails either side,stapled to the underside of the floor and the top of it is behind the lateral roof rail,I therefore don't consider it a major structural component,the front GRP had faded due to age but as it has a pigment included in the gel coat resin elbow grease and autoglym products restored the Sheene.
The ABS rear panel may not be structural but it will be subject to flexing when the caravan is towed due to the lightweight construction of any timber frame underneath - if/when it cracks it would allow moisture into the timber frame underneath.
As a tangent, balancing the road wheels will reduce the flexing considerably but not eliminate it completely.
- Nov 11, 2009
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Assuming the ABS panel is still the original it has done remarkably well compared to many more modern caravans.
Perhaps it may depend on factors such as material thickness,stress points recognised and taken into consideration when designing the panel
- Nov 11, 2009
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Some continental caravans continued to use that configuration where the roof curves over the rear and forms a horizontal joint with the ABS panel. Rather than having a full height ABS panel that then has the horizontal joint with the roof on the roof itself.
Its "integrity" most certainly impacts on the van's structural integrity.
Any loss of its watertight integrity is highly likely to lead to the wooden structural parts rotting.
- Jul 18, 2017
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To clear up a misconception. Section 75 covers you using a credit card if the value of the goods are over £100. You are then covered by S75 even if you only pay a deposit of £1, £5 or £99 toward the cost of the goods using a CC. The maximum amount of the goods needs to be up to £30000.
When purchasing a high value item, it is best to pay a deposit using a credit card and the balance on finance. You can always use a CC for the initial deposit, pay the bulk using savings etc and leave on a small amount for finance to save on interest charges.
When purchasing a high value item, it is best to pay a deposit using a credit card and the balance on finance. You can always use a CC for the initial deposit, pay the bulk using savings etc and leave on a small amount for finance to save on interest charges.
It does not need to be "damaged", it is very capable of cracking without any accident, it can simply fracture from a multitude of stressing states.
From as pointed out earlier screwed fittings, particularly where done without clearance holes being formed, or from stapling, these all very capable of causing stress raisers. Then, from locked in stresses caused during the actual moulding. Plus from embrittlement over time from UV exposure, where its once ability to accommodate flexing is sufficiently lost.
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