Electric water heater

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Jun 6, 2006
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Ah, come to think if it, the floor to the side of the seat where the boiler is located was wet when i tried to refill with coolant 😐
Have a look around the pipework near and around where it was wet, antifreeze if leaking from one of the rubber pipe connections you can usually see it glistening or feeling oily
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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You do indeed need the antifreeze to heat the fresh water, point being the elements in the Alde system should never be run dry!
Actually you don't need the anti freeze to heat the water, but you do need fluid.
 
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Jun 6, 2006
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Actually you don't need the anti freeze to heat the water, but you do need fluid.
If you just have water in the fresh water side actually you will still kill the elements.

If there in no FLUID in where the elements are (normally 50/50 water/glycol) then you will kill the elements
 
Jul 18, 2017
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If you just have water in the fresh water side actually you will still kill the elements.

If there in no FLUID in where the elements are (normally 50/50 water/glycol) then you will kill the elements
I am not sure how the ALDE system actually works, but it is different to a normal boiler system. The boiler’s internal heat exchanger consists of three concentric cylinders; the combustion chamber, the central heating cylinder and the
hot water cylinder.

The combustion chamber is made fromaluminium, and is divided into two halves by
a baffle plate, with the burner head located in the top half, and the flue gases venting through the bottom half.

The combustion assembly is fixed to theend of the internal heat exchanger. It consistsof the burner, combustion fan, gas valve, airintake and exhaust ducts, and gas line. Two electric heating elements are sealed inside the central heating cylinder, one for1 kW, one for 2 kW. It does seem that you can run the system without any fluid due to the elements being sealed inside the cylinders?
 

DRW

Jul 3, 2022
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Actually you don't need the anti freeze to heat the water, but you do need fluid.
Yes, It does heat water rega
I am not sure how the ALDE system actually works, but it is different to a normal boiler system. The boiler’s internal heat exchanger consists of three concentric cylinders; the combustion chamber, the central heating cylinder and the
hot water cylinder.

The combustion chamber is made fromaluminium, and is divided into two halves by
a baffle plate, with the burner head located in the top half, and the flue gases venting through the bottom half.

The combustion assembly is fixed to theend of the internal heat exchanger. It consistsof the burner, combustion fan, gas valve, airintake and exhaust ducts, and gas line. Two electric heating elements are sealed inside the central heating cylinder, one for1 kW, one for 2 kW. It does seem that you can run the system without any fluid due to the elements being sealed inside the cylinders?
So in theory, if using electricity (1kw) to heat the water only it won't harm the boiler?
 

DRW

Jul 3, 2022
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Yes, It does heat water rega

So in theory, if using electricity (1kw) to heat the water only it won't harm the boiler?
..... sorry to be clarer, with no fluid in the expansion tank and boiler but with water running through from the aquaroll ....in theory, if using electricity (1kw) to heat the water only....it won't harm the boiler?
[/QUOTE]
.....
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Yes, It does heat water rega

So in theory, if using electricity (1kw) to heat the water only it won't harm the boiler?
It does seem to be that way? The combi-type boiler automatically produces hot water. Heat is emitted from the central heating cylinder into the hot water cylinder. If the hot water cylinder is empty, the air is heated but no damage can result.

However the boiler must not be switched on if there is no heat transfer fluid (HTF) in the system.

Being a combi-type boiler, the Alde 3020 Compact HE has an integrated, stainless steel hot water cylinder that holds approximately 8.4 litres of fresh water. The boiler can produce around 12 litres of 40 °C warm water per 30 mins (at a cold water temperature of 10 °C). If onlythe electric heating is used, this capacity is slightly reduced.
 
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DRW

Jul 3, 2022
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It does seem to be that way? The combi-type boiler automatically produces hot water. Heat is emitted from the central heating cylinder into the hot water cylinder. If the hot water cylinder is empty, the air is heated but no damage can result.

However the boiler must not be switched on if there is no heat transfer fluid (HTF) in the system.

Being a combi-type boiler, the Alde 3020 Compact HE has an integrated, stainless steel hot water cylinder that holds approximately 8.4 litres of fresh water. The boiler can produce around 12 litres of 40 °C warm water per 30 mins (at a cold water temperature of 10 °C). If onlythe electric heating is used, this capacity is slightly reduced.
Ours is the 3010. It works fine for hot water . I stopped using it when I realised there was no coolant in it and I thought it would do damage.
If I keep the heating off and only use the combi water heater bit It'll be ok then?
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Ours is the 3010. It works fine for hot water . I stopped using it when I realised there was no coolant in it and I thought it would do damage.
If I keep the heating off and only use the combi water heater bit It'll be ok then?
I doubt it, but for better clarification contact ALDE direct as they are based in the UK in Wellingborough.
 
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Jun 6, 2006
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I am not sure how the ALDE system actually works, but it is different to a normal boiler system. The boiler’s internal heat exchanger consists of three concentric cylinders; the combustion chamber, the central heating cylinder and the
hot water cylinder.

The combustion chamber is made fromaluminium, and is divided into two halves by
a baffle plate, with the burner head located in the top half, and the flue gases venting through the bottom half.

The combustion assembly is fixed to theend of the internal heat exchanger. It consistsof the burner, combustion fan, gas valve, airintake and exhaust ducts, and gas line. Two electric heating elements are sealed inside the central heating cylinder, one for1 kW, one for 2 kW. It does seem that you can run the system without any fluid due to the elements being sealed inside the cylinders?
The elements both sit in the glycol part of the heater this is heated up and the heat from the glycol mix is transferred to the fresh water jacket via heat transfer.

You can run the Alde system with no fresh water in the system, you most certainly cannot run it with no fluid (normally 50/50 glycol and deionised water) in the heating system , if you do it will kill the elements.
 
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Jun 6, 2006
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Ours is the 3010. It works fine for hot water . I stopped using it when I realised there was no coolant in it and I thought it would do damage.
If I keep the heating off and only use the combi water heater bit It'll be ok then?
With no coolant in the heating system DO NOT use the Alde system period try to produce hot water or heating you will kill the elements.

The Truma Combi system works in a different way, the two elements run in the the fins on the heat exchanger and rely on thermal transfer via the jacket, this system can be used with no fluids present as they don’t need the fluid to take the heat away
 
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Mel

Mar 17, 2007
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Have you tried non AWS engineers. There are good ones out there (our forum friend Sprocket for example). As the van is over 10 years old it will not be about keeping it in Warranty.
Mel
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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The elements both sit in the glycol part of the heater this is heated up and the heat from the glycol mix is transferred to the fresh water jacket via heat transfer.

You can run the Alde system with no fresh water in the system, you most certainly cannot run it with no fluid (normally 50/50 glycol and deionised water) in the heating system , if you do it will kill the elements.

From the description the elements are sealed inside the central heating cylinder, one for1 kW, one for 2 kW therefore the understanding would be that they are not affected if there is no fluid in the system and that if the hot water cylinder is empty, the air is heated but no damage can result.

However the boiler must not be switched on if there is no heat transfer fluid (HTF) in the system. To someone not familiar with the workings of the system this sounds almost contradictory which is why it is best to speak to ALDE themselves if unsure.
.
 
Jun 6, 2006
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From the description the elements are sealed inside the central heating cylinder, one for1 kW, one for 2 kW therefore the understanding would be that they are not affected if there is no fluid in the system and that if the hot water cylinder is empty, the air is heated but no damage can result.

However the boiler must not be switched on if there is no heat transfer fluid (HTF) in the system. To someone not familiar with the workings of the system this sounds almost contradictory which is why it is best to speak to ALDE themselves if unsure.
.
Sorry but your understanding is incorrect.

This is true for the Truma combi but NOT for the Alde system

It is probably better to say if the Alde heater is totally dry as in no fluid for heating or fresh water don’t use it!!
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Sorry but your understanding is incorrect.

This is true for the Truma combi but NOT for the Alde system

It is probably better to say if the Alde heater is totally dry as in no fluid for heating or fresh water don’t use it!!
Then you need to speak to ALDE as that description is copied from the ALDE owner's manual which is why I suggested that the OP contact ALDE direct as theya re very helpful. It could also save them a fortune.
 
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Jun 6, 2006
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Then you need to speak to ALDE as that description is copied from the ALDE owner's manual which is why I suggested that the OP contact ALDE direct as theya re very helpful. It could also save them a fortune.
I am sorry but I don’t believe that I do, as I do actually know how the system works, otherwise I wouldn’t say what I have as in

To recap
If no fluid is in the heating system (as in (should be) glycol 50/50)) then using the heater will damage the heating elements as they need to sit in the fluid.

Now assuming there is fluid in the heating system (should be glycol 50/50 mixed) and no water in the fresh water outer jacket (for taps) then you can happily use the Alde unit for heat only, this will not damage the element’s as they are sat in the glycol mix
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I suspect there is some truth in both Buckman's and Martin's comments, but I also suspect they may be discussing slightly different points. But as none of us even those of use with relevant experience can see the appliance in question, it's very difficult to diagnose or give unambiguous advice. What I can say from a professional point of view, is that the nature of the problem might involve having to dismantle or even remove the appliance from the caravan , and that will need several connections to be undone. Certain ones will be safety critical, and unless you have the experience, and relevant test equipment, it should be left to a professional.

I do echo the advice that if you have lost any of the sealed circulation fluid, do not attempt to use the appliance, and you would be best served consulting the manufacture or their approved service dealers

Do make sure you have the model and it's serial number to hand, so there can be no doubt about which product your discussing.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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Both heating elements sit in the Central heating fluid although it look as though the 1kw sits in the gas burner container. So using the electric heating mode without fluid will damage the elements.

cutaway_3010_169.jpg
 
Jun 6, 2006
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Both heating elements sit in the Central heating fluid although it look as though the 1kw sits in the gas burner container. So using the electric heating mode without fluid will damage the elements.

View attachment 4585
👍
They both sit in the glycol, it’s deceptive with the cutout giving a false impression of where the 1kw element is sitting.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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I am beginning to regret offering advice on a solution even though I copied it from the ALDE owner's manual and pasted the copy into the thread. It does seems ALDE and myself are incorrect?

However my advice for the OP to contact ALDE direct for a solution that may save them a boodle still stands.
 
Jun 16, 2020
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I would suggest that the coolant has been lost from the circulation system, but there may well be some left in the inner chamber of the boiler therefore transfering the elements heat into the fresh water jacket.

IF, and I stress IF that is the case, it suggests that the leak may be in the circulation system which is far easier to rectify than the internals of the boiler.

John
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Electric elements that are designed to be immersed in a liquid rely on the thermal absorption properties of the liquid to take heat from the surface of the element. if any active part or the element is not immersed in the liquid it cannot get rid of the heat and is in danger of exceeding its temperature rating and it could sustain damage and/or reduce its working life. Consequently the loss of a working fluid that drops the level in the heating chamber is as potentially as detrimental as having no fluid at all.

In fact, depending on the design of the element and any over temperature sensor, part filled tanks could be more detrimental, as if the over temperature sensor is well below the surface of the fluid such that some of the element can still be exposed whilst the sensor is covered, the exposed element will not be protected and will continue to be over stressed even though the sensor is apparently satisfied with the conditions.
 
Jun 6, 2006
602
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I am beginning to regret offering advice on a solution even though I copied it from the ALDE owner's manual and pasted the copy into the thread. It does seems ALDE and myself are incorrect?

However my advice for the OP to contact ALDE direct for a solution that may save them a boodle still stands.
Don’t regret trying to help, you answered with what you thought was correct with what information you had. Hopefully the thread has helped the OP
 
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Jun 6, 2006
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Electric elements that are designed to be immersed in a liquid rely on the thermal absorption properties of the liquid to take heat from the surface of the element. if any active part or the element is not immersed in the liquid it cannot get rid of the heat and is in danger of exceeding its temperature rating and it could sustain damage and/or reduce its working life. Consequently the loss of a working fluid that drops the level in the heating chamber is as potentially as detrimental as having no fluid at all.

In fact, depending on the design of the element and any over temperature sensor, part filled tanks could be more detrimental, as if the over temperature sensor is well below the surface of the fluid such that some of the element can still be exposed whilst the sensor is covered, the exposed element will not be protected and will continue to be over stressed even though the sensor is apparently satisfied with the conditions.
Not the Truma Combi heaters, they rely on the aluminium heat exchanger to dissipate the heat from the elements, unlike the Truma ultrastore, Alde and I think Whale heaters that all rely on liquid to protect the elements 🤔
 

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