EVs changing the face of caravanning.

[JezzerB]

The old; EVs aren't as green as you'd expect argument somewhat annoys me; basically we need to get off using fossil fuels for anything other than what is strictly impossible to manufacture synthetically-not much then. And we need to make the energy to do this with the wonderful resources we have and we waste. Water movement, wind, and the sun, plus thermal. I don't like or think nucear is the answer either; speaking from someone who is trying to help the campaign against Lincs CC and GEotech who seem to think dumping our nuclear waste under the sea in a flood risk zone on our Blue Flag coastline near Cleethorpes/ Sutton on Sea is a good idea because they can't think what else to do with it.

 

[Buckman]

I don't agree with solar and wind farms which blot the landscape and are destroying our countryside. Seeing acres and acres of solar panels with virtually nothing growing under the them reminds me of desert conditions. Maybe they will be the start of deserts in the UK? LOL! 😀
Sadly as yet we do not have a solution to environmental friendly energy production, however we need the energy for all our power toys including the power used to generate this email!
Maybe time to move back to the environmentally friendly stone age and all the wood fires etc and using oxen to plough the land?

 

[Gafferbill]

I don't know what the temperature was when our current oil deposits were thriving fish or the coal deposits were healthy trees.
Since both deposits contain an awful lot of carbon and extrapolating current global warming arguments.....then it must of been scorching with all that carbon loose in the atmosphere!

 

[Tobes]

Why would you imagine that I was implying anything about you Prof, my comment referred to me and the fact that opinions on issues surrounding climate change or global warming can vary.

Opinions vary, but the evidence is solid. Human use of fossil fuels (for whatever purpose) are changing the climate of the planet. Using less fossil fuel reduces that impact. EVs use less than ICE vehicles over their lifetime. What individuals choose to do with that information is of course up to them.
My posts here (and on other caravan forums ) are intended to present some evidence to help others come to an informed position about the use of EVs while towing. There is little experience and a lot of speculation. The truth is they do work, but will not work for all.

 

[Raywood]

I do not think that you can seriously argue that switching to an EV is anything but good but it does have to be kept in context and frankly if the whole of the UK switched tomorrow it would make very little difference. It needs far more to be done, but as they say in Tesco "every little helps" and it is a start.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I say if an EV meets your travel needs, then it is better than an ICE, but even with the best will in the world, any form or powered transport has some environmental impact, either form the manufacturing processes or from the fuel or maintenance it needs.

I believe it is reasonable to remind everyone to consider their travel needs (not wants) in the wider context of trying to reduce our environmental impact.

 

[otherclive]

I say if an EV meets your travel needs, then it is better than an ICE, but even with the best will in the world, any form or powered transport has some environmental impact, either form the manufacturing processes or from the fuel or maintenance it needs.

I believe it is reasonable to remind everyone to consider their travel needs (not wants) in the wider context of trying to reduce our environmental impact.

Your second para causes me considerable angst as our normal lifestyle is quite low impact. Example I’m sitting in the garden watching a wren come and go whilst my wife has walked off to Tesco to buy me a paper. But next year we have booked a long haul on the basis that by 09/23 we will probably not have the dogs or if we do our daughter will take leave and minister to their needs.
Now the holiday isn’t a need, but we both want to go as quite frankly since June 2018 our various plans have gone to rats and much as we like Britain foreign parts do please us immensely. And the weather is so much more predictable. Time to man diving stations.

 

[Buckman]

Your second para causes me considerable angst as our normal lifestyle is quite low impact. Example I’m sitting in the garden watching a wren come and go whilst my wife has walked off to Tesco to buy me a paper. But next year we have booked a long haul on the basis that by 09/23 we will probably not have the dogs or if we do our daughter will take leave and minister to their needs.
Now the holiday isn’t a need, but we both want to go as quite frankly since June 2018 our various plans have gone to rats and much as we like Britain foreign parts do please us immensely. And the weather is so much more predictable. Time to man diving stations.

Agree 100% Get out while you can before the greenies ruin your life and the lives of others as they will want you to stay at home 24/7 365 warming yourself using a solar panel or wind sock! 😀
By the way where do they think solar panels etc come from or do they think they grown on bushes?

 

[Parksy]

....... My posts here (and on other caravan forums ) are intended to present some evidence to help others come to an informed position about the use of EVs while towing. There is little experience and a lot of speculation. The truth is they do work, but will not work for all.

EVs certainly wouldn't work for me as things stand, and I'm unlikely to buy an EV in my lifetime.

.....I believe it is reasonable to remind everyone to consider their travel needs (not wants) in the wider context of trying to reduce our environmental impact.

We are reminded morning, noon and night, even weather forecasts have been weaponised in order to bombard us with the green agenda that very few UK voters voted for.
Remind me, how many seats do the Green Party hold in the House of Commons?
Meanwhile the climate change political zealots jet around the world to attend far flung junkets for them to devise new ways to extract more money from us in the name of man made climate change, global warming or whatever the latest buzz word happens to be at the time.
There's a strong whiff of hypocrisy surrounding the constant lecturing from those in high places who to my mind have hidden financial incentives to promote this green ideology.

 

[Challenger]

Were the entire World to reach IPCC targets for reduction in ICE vehicles this would undoubtedly lead to reduction in CO2 levels. However the calculated figure (IPCC frmula) would bring about a reduction in global temperatures of - wait for it - 0.0003 degrees c.
Hovever, as has been said before the car is an easily identifiable target, and it would seem, cosidered to be an easier battle to win by some.
Meanwhile the real war remains largely unfought !

 

[Tobes]

Agree 100% Get out while you can before the greenies ruin your life and the lives of others as they will want you to stay at home 24/7 365 warming yourself using a solar panel or wind sock! 😀
By the way where do they think solar panels etc come from or do they think they grown on bushes?

How do you define “greenies”? Extinction Rebellion? Stop oil now? The Green Party? Climate scientists? Members of any political party who have a environmental policy? The everyday person who is simply trying to reduce their personal footprint?
How do you define non-greenies? Big oil companies? People that fly? Owners of V8 cars? Owners of diesel cars?
The continuum is long and fine grained. Branding people as “greenies” is unhelpful and frankly offensive.
Solar panels are manufactured in energy consuming factories, just like almost any other commodity on the planet. The main raw ingredient being sand.

 

[Tobes]

EVs certainly wouldn't work for me as things stand, and I'm unlikely to buy an EV in my lifetime.


We are reminded morning, noon and night, even weather forecasts have been weaponised in order to bombard us with the green agenda that very few UK voters voted for.
Remind me, how many seats do the Green Party hold in the House of Commons?
Meanwhile the climate change political zealots jet around the world to attend far flung junkets for them to devise new ways to extract more money from us in the name of man made climate change, global warming or whatever the latest buzz word happens to be at the time.
There's a strong whiff of hypocrisy surrounding the constant lecturing from those in high places who to my mind have hidden financial incentives to promote this green ideology.

The Green Party are not the only party with a green , or as it used to be called, environment policy. Every major party in the uk has an environmental policy. The people voted for what they got. A government.

 

[Parksy]

The Green Party are not the only party with a green , or as it used to be called, environment policy. Every major party in the uk has an environmental policy. The people voted for what they got. A government.

That's true, there used to be the one Green Party MP, Caroline Lucas.
Since they realised that there are fortunes to be made from the green agenda most of the others from across the political spectrum have jumped on the bandwagon.
Which is why I don't trust any of them and I treat the current climate change narrative in this country with deep suspicion.

 

[Dustydog]

The entire Green concept will implode depending what happens in the Ukraine. Good old green Germany have been caught with their pants down. Mr Putin’s gas still flows to them.
The U.K. have been very good over the last 20 years. We still contribute less than 1% pollution world wide. Let’s congratulate ourselves👏👏. So as all our power stations get closed down. Eg Didcot, I’m out foraging for fallen branches to burn wood at home. More pollution😉

 

[Challenger]

The entire Green concept will implode depending what happens in the Ukraine. Good old green Germany have been caught with their pants down. Mr Putin’s gas still flows to them.
The U.K. have been very good over the last 20 years. We still contribute less than 1% pollution world wide. Let’s congratulate ourselves👏👏. So as all our power stations get closed down. Eg Didcot, I’m out foraging for fallen branches to burn wood at home. More pollution😉

We are still importing coal - RUSSIAN coal ! 😡

Energy bosses have imported tonnes of Russian coal into the UK since the Ukraine invasion began

Two consignments of Russian coal totalling more than 130,000 tonnes have been sent from a bulk terminal near St Petersburg to the Lincolnshire port of Immingham by Germany-based energy giant Uniper

inews.co.uk

 

[Dustydog]

But all for Ratcliffe Power station to make electricity and so it goes on. But a splash in the ocean compared to Germany.

 

[Buckman]

How do you define “greenies”? Extinction Rebellion? Stop oil now? The Green Party? Climate scientists? Members of any political party who have a environmental policy? The everyday person who is simply trying to reduce their personal footprint?
How do you define non-greenies? Big oil companies? People that fly? Owners of V8 cars? Owners of diesel cars?
The continuum is long and fine grained. Branding people as “greenies” is unhelpful and frankly offensive.
Solar panels are manufactured in energy consuming factories, just like almost any other commodity on the planet. The main raw ingredient being sand.

I define a Greenie as someone that rams their views down my throat, wants me to confine myself to thinking the same as them, is prepared to disrupt my life by their actions although they are happy to use a car or public transport which uses fossil fuel to get to work, happy to use fossil power for their homes, happy to use their fossil fueled Smartphones etc etc or in other words use fossil fuel to achieve their aims!

 

[Gafferbill]

I don't believe in a massive meterior strike finishing off the dinosaurs.
I don't believe in techtronic plate theory and I don't believe man causes global temperature change.
I do believe what other people believe is entirely a matter for them and they should not use their beliefs to antagonise others.

 

[Raywood]

We are still importing coal - RUSSIAN coal ! 😡

I agree, but this is because we do not ask the right questions when dealing with fossil fuels. Before closing or looking at new projects you have to ask "What will happen if we do not use this?" The answer in most cases is someone else will produce the fuel and transport it here. That is jus crazy as we then increase the greenhouse gasses by using fuel to transport these and use foreign currency to ay for it. What we are actually doing is making the position slightly worse and us slightly more in debt. That is the crazy situation that many well intentioned greens seem to miss.

 

[JezzerB]

I define a Greenie as someone that rams their views down my throat, wants me to confine myself to thinking the same as them, is prepared to disrupt my life by their actions although they are happy to use a car or public transport which uses fossil fuel to get to work, happy to use fossil power for their homes, happy to use their fossil fueled Smartphones etc etc or in other words use fossil fuel to achieve their aims!

I define those people as blatant hypocrites and appall me. However we try to be green , do have an EV but not for green reasons and love it. I therefore fiercely fight in the EV defence when luddites slate them unreasonably and cast doom and gloom over the future of motoring. I think it's very exciting at the mo! And that's from a petrol head too!

 

[otherclive]

This article details the development in charging rates and infrastructure by just one player in the market…..Shell in partnership with ABB. The numbers are quite staggering, which makes you wonder if companies like Shell really do want to sink major investments into extracting more oil from difficult undersea fields.

Shell and ABB team up to deliver world’s fastest electric car charger | Auto Express

New Shell and ABB-developed Terra 360 EV charger can add 62 miles of range in less than three minutes

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[figbat]

One thing about EV vs ICE - you can power an EV through purely carbon-free power generation if you have access to it - wind, solar etc. However, no matter how green the supply chain is, you will always directly generate CO2 (and other emissions) when using an ICE*.

*notwithstanding hydrogen and ammonia combustion engines, which won't generate CO2 but will still output other emissions, and are vanishingly rare.

 

[Hutch]

One thing about EV vs ICE - you can power an EV through purely carbon-free power generation if you have access to it - wind, solar etc. However, no matter how green the supply chain is, you will always directly generate CO2 (and other emissions) when using an ICE*.

*notwithstanding hydrogen and ammonia combustion engines, which won't generate CO2 but will still output other emissions, and are vanishingly rare.

When you state purley carbon free, for the wind solar etc, power generation, remember that the supply and service boats to offshore wind farms are still using diesel power at the moment.

 

[figbat]

When you state purley carbon free, for the wind solar etc, power generation, remember that the supply and service boats to offshore wind farms are still using diesel power at the moment.

Of course - I was talking specifically about the power generation, not about the infrastructure. There is carbon embedded in everything we do - the same service boats, helicopters etc are also servicing the offshore oil platforms adding to the indirect carbon footprint.

I guess my point was about the variable emissions associated with individual use, rather than the emissions built in to the infrastructure. Drill deep enough into any supply chain and you'll strike oil.

 

[Dustydog]

I define those people as blatant hypocrites and appall me. However we try to be green , do have an EV but not for green reasons and love it. I therefore fiercely fight in the EV defence when luddites slate them unreasonably and cast doom and gloom over the future of motoring. I think it's very exciting at the mo! And that's from a petrol head too!

I thought about your comments Jezzer and those of Parksy , Buckman and Hutch.
The U.K. is in a serious crisis with fuel costs rising beyond belief. My MIL has been told in writing if she doesn’t sign up to a variable energy plan now her bill in two years time may well be £6k per annum rather than £2500 . Last year it was £1200.
I don’t understand why today I am still paying a “Green “ levy🤔🤔.
I don’t do many miles a year. Caravanning away from home is one of the last vestiges of pleasure for us. We can afford to pay the extortionate diesel costs but for the mileage we do it doesn’t hurt too much. All the green and EV stuff on here comes at a hell of a price, way beyond my budget and the inability to tug my T/A the distances we are accustomed to.
I feel there is some divide between sensible reasonableness and green desire. . Green EV will come , not in my lifetime, or maybe never , looking East., For now I just want to enjoy my hobby with my diesel tug without being pronounced a Luddite or polluter of an atmosphere in the U.K. where we are doing well but I cannot change the whole world in my lifetime.