The Tesla Model S was launched in 2012 . So 10 years on I wonder where all the used models are? How are their batteries? How expensive? Or are they a Marie Celeste 😢
The Tesla Model S was launched in 2012 . So 10 years on I wonder where all the used models are? How are their batteries? How expensive? Or are they a Marie Celeste 😢
Ridiculously expensive for the man in the street! We will never green with those numbersThere are 31 up to 2015 on Auto Trader, between £30,000 and £48,000. Some have free supercharging for life!
John
That is for a car in the luxury baracket that was over 70K new. You may as well say that petrol mobility is too expensive while looking at used Mercedes S class or Jag XJ series. It's a pointless comparison. Having said that, it would be much cheaper to buy a comparable age Merc or Jag on the same miles with the same original list price. Why? Because they have potentially very expensive failures in the drive train and engine waiting to happen, and cost a lot more to run.Ridiculously expensive for the man in the street! We will never green with those numbers
That may be true but even if you had to spend £10000 on a new engine you are still quids ahead!Because they have potentially very expensive failures in the drive train and engine waiting to happen, and cost a lot more to run.
Lost on me. My VW new wasn’t far off those numbers. Three years on was very attractively priced. Why would the average man pay do much for a ten year old car which frankly doesn’t satisfy most peoples needs nor hard earned money? I said I am all for green stuff but at a realistic priceThat is for a car in the luxury baracket that was over 70K new. You may as well say that petrol mobility is too expensive while looking at used Mercedes S class or Jag XJ series. It's a pointless comparison. Having said that, it would be much cheaper to buy a comparable age Merc or Jag on the same miles with the same original list price. Why? Because they have potentially very expensive failures in the drive train and engine waiting to happen, and cost a lot more to run.
1) Nobody in their right mind buys anything (car or otherwise) that doesn't satisfy their needs. Your needs are simply not the same as others who are buing them.Lost on me. My VW new wasn’t far off those numbers. Three years on was very attractively priced. Why would the average man pay do much for a ten year old car which frankly doesn’t satisfy most peoples needs nor hard earned money? I said I am all for green stuff but at a realistic price
Sure - and if you live in London the tesla save you a potential 12K a year in Congestion charge and ULEV charges, not to mention potentialy thousands in fuel.That may be true but even if you had to spend £10000 on a new engine you are still quids ahead!
If you lived in London highly unlikely you would be spending thousands in fuel?Sure - and if you live in London the tesla save you a potential 12K a year in Congestion charge and ULEV charges, not to mention potentialy thousands in fuel.
Depends if you commute from the home counties to the city every day... Load of folks do this.If you lived in London highly unlikely you would be spending thousands in fuel?
Early Teslas were sold with free supercharging for life. It was a benefit to being an early adopter. Those cars are worth a huge amount as you can literly drive up to a tesla supercharger and charge for free for the life of the car.My post was about affordability for the average person in particular moving towards ICE free fuels etc, Everything quoted by Tobes proves imo the magic fossil fuel target date won’t happen.
Is there really a free lunch for life? Sounds good , perpetual motion?
Prof, it really is stretching my brain to comprehend why an EV ten years on is realistically still beyond the pocket of Mr Average. Forget towing. It has been suggested I look at a Nissan Leaf. Why would I want one of those in place of my VW Touareg? Seems to me market pricing, forces, are actually pushing EVs way beyond the affordability of most making an ICE free market unsustainable.Granted the initial purchase price is a major difference, though the price differentials of new EV cars are now beginning to come closer to
equivalent ICE vehicles, and there are many pundits predicting that soon the differences will almost be negligible as battery costs continue to fall. But the true full cost of ownership between ICE and EV are already favouring EV's becasue their running costs ( fuel, tax, servicing and resale values ) are so much better for EV's.u
However it still doesn't help so much for caravanners, because it does seem that despite the prodigious torque and power output for electric motors which should lend themselves to towing, the car manufacturers do seem to limit the towed weights allowed.
This post has nothing to do with towing with an EV. We have done that subject to death on other threads. This is about affordability of EVs when the shutter comes down on ICEsYou just said put aside towing Dusty; it was an example of a car and as relevant as a Tesla S which wouldn't be the best towcar anyway-not sure if it can and what it can tbh!
At present, it looks like the used car market will continue to make IC cars available at sensible prices for a long time because the price differential between them and EVs shows no sign of reducing.This post has nothing to do with towing with an EV. We have done that subject to death on other threads. This is about affordability of EVs when the shutter comes down on ICEs
At sensible prices isn’t the present position with used cars. Our Rio bought autumn 2019 is now valued £2.5 k more than when we bought it. Our granddaughter has been around this evening quite down after spending a day touring car dealerships for her first car. She has saved nearly £4000 but unless she is willing to accept a very high mileage car the asking prices are very high. She looked at a basic Peugeot 208, 2013, two owners and FSH. Priced at £3800 and non negotiable. There are signs that the used market is stabilising but with the delays to new cars coming onto the market it will not reduce until the new market improves.At present, it looks like the used car market will continue to make IC cars available at sensible prices for a long time because the price differential between them and EVs shows no sign of reducing.
It's generally true that annual car mileages reduce quite significantly as the car ages - so any cost saving from EVs will have reducing value as they get older making it harder to justify the price premium for an EV.
Ironically, any increase in demand for IC cars once the sale of new ones is banned will push the price of used IC cars up.
Prof, it really is stretching my brain to comprehend why an EV ten years on is realistically still beyond the pocket of Mr Average.
Did I suggest you should look at a Leaf? Yet alone that it was a replacement for Touareg?Forget towing. It has been suggested I look at a Nissan Leaf. Why would I want one of those in place of my VW Touareg? Seems to me market pricing, forces, are actually pushing EVs way beyond the affordability of most making an ICE free market unsustainable.
I sorry but I don't follow your logic in the above statement in the context of my last post. Did I say a ten yrar old EV was beyond mr Average - how ever you define average?
Did I suggest you should look at a Leaf? Yet alone that it was a replacement for Touareg?
I thought I had made the point that you should not look just at the retail price new, or second hand as the measure of affordability , You have to look at whole life costs.
As has been discussed many times before, just becasue the sale of new ICE cars will be banned at a particular date, there will be an ongoing pool of secondhand ICE vehicles for several decade after the date. Only of there is political or financial pressure the use of some ICE will continue for many decades.
Just to check. You are judging the affordability of the 2nd hand EV market for Mr. Average by looking at the 2nd hand price not of an average car, but of a Luxury car, in whos top spec is the fastest accelerating mass production car ever sold? You might as well judge the 2nd hand petrol market by looking at the second hand prices of BMW M5s or Porsche 911s.Mr Average. Sorry if my wording is unclear. My point is simply if the EV used prices are today so high in relation to an ICE how will the “average “person afford a used EV when ICEs cease to be produced.
No you didn’t suggest a Leaf, hence I said it has been suggested.
The basic simple point is that ten years on an used EV remains beyond the financial reach of Mr Average.