Front panel small cracks

[SteUK]

Hi all,

New to the forum but been reading a while...unfortunately it is possible troubles that bring me to post for the first time

After many years of camping with my wife, and a long history of caravanning with my parents, a little addition to our lives convinced us to take the leap into caravanning! We hunted around, looked at a lot of (damp) 'vans before finding something that fitted our (small) budget. Picked up the van yesterday and, upon returning home with it, noticed lots of very small cracks in the front panel around the windows...and one crack that runs into a window edge. Will post up some pictures shortly.

The 'van was sold to us with a no quibble 12 month warranty by the dealer - not a main type but one with a workshop that devices, repairs, etc.

I checked the van over with a damp meter prior to purchase and everything came in at 15% and below. The cracks do not look 'new'.

Advice please!!!

Thanks!

 

[SteUK]

Should probably add that the van is a bailey pageant, 1998 - so quite old!

 

[Highlander09]

Has it been repainted? They look like crack you get from poor adhesion / shrinkage.

 

[SteUK]

How would I be able to tell?

The front certainly feels, to the touch, different to the real panel. The sides are aluminium, which the front and back are not.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello SteUK,

If you have a dealer guarantee then at least try it. But I have to observe I don't think you will have any luck with getting it repaired foc.

From the pictures, it doesn't look like the marks penetrate very deeply, so its surface marking only. The other and important factor is you will have viewed the caravan and had every opportunity to see these marks which were not concealed BEFORE YOU AGREED TO PURCHASE. So by agreeing you have indicated you have accepted the surface damage, which in reality is not exceptional for a 18 year old second hand caravan.

I'm sure it can be repaired, and any approved dealer should be able to advise.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Ste.
they look like what boaters call skin cracks, this happens with changes in temp and vibration over time, and is a condition where the gel coat cracks it doesn't look very pretty but is only skin deep so will still be waterproof, as it appears to be under the window pane and therefore not open to the elements I would not worry too much, it can be made to look a lot better by filling (just the cracks) and polishing, using one of the car type colour restorers that use a wax filler stick and colour polish. however more worrying is the perished window seal, I would have that replaced ASAP.

 

[SteUK]

Thanks for the replies. Appreciate them.

ProfJohnL: agree, I should have spotted them and asked about them. I am 99% sure I would have been told they were just cosmetic as the van is completely dry inside at the front...and they do not exactly look _new_. The van has been serviced the past 5 years by them as well.

Colin: my initial thought was it might be related to heat...being under the window edges one would assume the sun on the window creates a greenhouse type effect concentrating on the surface. I picked up on the seals coming away from the surface before purchase and they agreed to fix it. This entailed masticing them back down. Something that they clearly attempted to do, but it hasn't worked. They did say they wouldn't replace the rubbers. Will be on the phone to them tomorrow to inform them as such and see if they will pay for half the cost of new rubbers, which I will fit. Think that's fair.

If the cracks are indeed only surface...will they expand over time? Deepen and potentially cause ingress? Will filling them help prevent this? Or is it just a cosmetic solution?

Thanks!

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Thanks for the replies. Appreciate them.

If the cracks are indeed only surface...will they expand over time? Deepen and potentially cause ingress? Will filling them help prevent this? Or is it just a cosmetic solution?

Thanks!

hi Ste, yes they could expand slightly or increase in number, but in my experience they never go deeper than the gel coat as it is this that cracks and not the stand glass underneath, so no they should not cause water ingress I have had several occurances over the years in boats around the stern area where most vibration and heat is but never had a leak.
the fix I mentioned is just cosmetic, as nothing will stick permenantly to the hardened outer coat once cured, the permenant repair involves removing the gel coat and replacing it with a new gel coat which is then heat treated ( by coinsidence) is what started the cracks in the first place. it is a very expensive fix though and not really worth all the hassle.
that is why caravan manufacturers replace the whole front or rear panels if cracked when doing warranty work as a repair is not cost effective, it is cheaper and offers a more simple cure.

 

[SteUK]

So something like this:

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_220181_langId_-1_categoryId_165527#[objectObject]

Would filling with gelcoat filler maybe work for a more long term solution?

http://www.gaelforcemarine.co.uk/37800/Plastic-Padding-Gelcoat-Filler-159ml.html?referrer=FROOGLE&gclid=CjgKEAjwq_qcBRDZ-PeZ7NGQiVwSJAATT7q2xsb5nWdYBkFn0akDPsYa18As9gtkjrir9A6sHSzc2fD_BwE
Dealer has agreed to pay half for new window rubbers and I will fit them. Think that is a fair outcome. Will be able to check the wood frames for moisture after I remove the old rubbers as well.

Thanks!

 

[TD42]

the seriousness of the surface cracks depends on the material the panel is made from. If it is a fibreglass (GRP) panel the cracks are in the gel coat & usually not a cause of damp penetration & can be repaired quite easily. How ever if the panel is of plastic (ABS) construction then the problem is more sever as the cracks are not just surface cracks but usually go right through the material eventually allowing water penetration & damp problems ,the only real solution is a complete panel replacement costing several hundreds of pounds
Im afraid that I do not know if the panel of a 98 bailey is of GRP or ABS but the later 2003on front & rear panels were ABS plastic a tip to find out is if you can see the back of the panel Ie inside the gas locker & this has a rough texture then it is GRP if it is a smooth texture its ABS plastic

 

[SteUK]

TD42: definitely GRP

 

[TD42]

Having had a second look at the photos I suspect that the panel has been painted & as suggested the paint is lifting. Have you tried rubbing down one of the hidden cracks with a fine wet & dry paper to see if it is indeed paint lifting or gel coat cracks???

 

[SteUK]

Not touched then yet. Found a more open crack at least assume it was a crack at one point. Not sure how well the picture will come out but...

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Ste,
I assumed a 98 Bailey would be GRP so did not mention ABS, as this became widespread from about the model changes
around 2000, as TD42 remarked the two materials look very similar on the surface but the inside is the tell tail ie rough/smooth.
IMO, GRP is at least a better prospect on the repair front, as a split in a ABS panel would be a write off.
now how to do it!! first clean around the window area thoughly with a non greasy cleaner inc the use of a nail brush if req as you are changing the window rubber you need to do this anyway once clean, rub lightly with 1000 grade wet/dry used wet, then dry, once dry using, www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servl...1_categoryId_165527#[object Object] of the right colour, fill the cracks with the wax pencil rubbing across the crack then using a micro cloth apply the polish and buff up taking care not to remove the wax, this will not be perfect and will only be a temporary measure but it will look a lot better, and can be re applied if req.
or by using www.gaelforcemarine.co.uk/37800/Plastic-...kjrir9A6sHSzc2fD_BwE but the method is slightly different
clean and smooth as before. but then fill each crack with a small amount of the filler, if required remove excess with scraper. then cover with strong plastic sheet (a good thick shopping bag will do) but not the cheap wafer thin ones!!!! onto the wet filler, next smooth down evenly with a plastic edge paper roller www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silverline-200Mm-Soft-Grip-Seam-Roller-Wallpaper-Border-Edge-Decorating-/131073910909?pt=UK_DIY_Material_Paint_Varnish_MJ&hash=item1e849d287d untill smooth leave to set hard then remove the plastic sheet you should now have a smooth crack free surface how long this will last will depend on how good you do it!!!
but be warned if you use too much filler or too little it will look a right pigs ear. then you will have to rub it down again and repeat
good luck let us know how you get on!!

 

[SteUK]

Thanks for the 'how-to'. Can you post pinks up again please? They both don't bring up the products

Planning to clean off old window mastic with white spirit, and then clean up with methylated spirit. Will clean cracked parts prior to removing most of the rubber.

Will the meths be oki to degrease cracks with?

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi, sorry the links did not work but they are the same ones you used just cut and pasted (something must have been lost in transposition) meths should work but not white spirit, I used to use nail varnish remover (acetone) when doing boats.
but don't forget to do this before rubbing down so there is no residue left on the gel coat or the recovery won't stick.

 

[SteUK]

Thanks for the clarification.

Going to go down the plastic padding gel coat filler route.

In my journey to ascertain the correct window rubber seal thickness, I have had some of the old rubber away from the van to offer up samples. Found a few extra cracks including...a gelcoat crack about a centimetre long into the window opening. Can clearly see it doesn't extend into the depth on the fibreglass. Good sign I think?

Also spotted this up at the top of the window...



Hope that image is high enough resolution.i was concerned it might be a stress crack from the screw hole. But zooming in I think you can see it does not appear to travel towards the screw hole.

All these cracks certainly do not look new...and the van appears bone dry on a damp meter all over the front. Can I be safe in the knowledge that all the cracks appear to simple be gelcoat depth only, and not a risk to the structure, damp-proof-ness of the front panel?

I have the new window rubbers now... Just waiting for a dry day to crack on with it all!

 

[SteUK]

Last image appears to have rotated itself 90 degrees counter-clockwise!

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi ste,
from the (blow up) of the photo you can see the cracks are clearly in the corner and the same as the others so cause no no more concern, the black end cap can be removed by removing the screw and gently prising off the plastic bit (so it does not break all this does is keep the rubber strip in place and prevents the window sliding sideways,
repair the cracks the same way as the others and when complete replace the end cap for a neater result
good luck with the repair,

 

[SteUK]

Thanks Colin, will let you know how I get on with the repair!

 

[SteUK]

Rain has stopped play...but...

Managed to get a small area on its way...

It's about sealing the crack for me...aesthetics don't bother me (naturally I am trying to get it as smart as I can though)

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi Ste,
looks good to me, the difference in colour is because of the pigment in the gel coat, nothing you can do about that without a colour matching kit (ps, this is one of the reason professional repairs are so expensive) but it does not matter that much as the repair will be under the window panel well done!! ---- good luck with the rest if it all turns out like that bit, the jobs a good-un.

 

[SteUK]

It was all going swimming well. Then my prop slipped and the window came crashing down. Result. Cracked window.

Help!?