Healthy v Weight

[smiley]

Anyone listening to the news.

No op if your overweight.

Listening to all the views I heard that people who eat bad foods and are overweight should not have the ops, when other people eat healthily and are slim(ish) should.

My point who are the heathiest?

My brother and sister are slim eat everything that is bad, chocolates, junk food, high fat foods, cakes etc while I try my best no junk food, watch the fat intake, and am overweight. Why should I be penalised for it.

Whats yours comments?

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Although the present "highlighting" by the media of this I believe a lot of it is political being used to keep down waiting lists. It is a fact though that there is a greater risk to obese people and its also a fact that anaethetists arent too happy about managing obese patients either.

 

[VIP2006]

I would propose that the withdrawall of service be adopted from the drunken people who litter our streets and towns on a ever increasing basis. If they become p****d and incapable let them lie in the gutter where they belong and have them showered by gulley cleaners at regular intervals. They will sharply return to being orderly people who can enjoy a night out without without the binging etc.

The proposal to not give attention to patients who are overweight, can only hasten the day when the managers of the NHS will be proposing removing treatment from people who are old, mentally or physically infirm and patients who have terminal illnesses just to keep within budgets. (remember the people who started WW20

They want to remember that the NHS was started as a service to the people, but it now appears it it a service for the NHS who whilst doing a tremendous of great work are in danger of becoming a species of the past for as sure as eggs are eggs the privateers employed within the service are damn well going to have a private health service.

I am not particulrly in favour of Nationalise services but we have to admit that when we take a nationalised out of public ownership we usually end up wth a rip off alternative. IMHO

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

You only have to look at the railways to see what happens with privatisation, how fragmented they are and the rolling stock in sickly gaudy colours. Locomotives used to have names that were appropriate and seemed right but now they are named to please the railways customers. Somehow Flying Fox sounds better than Bulmers Cider or Diddley Dale Rolling Mills for a locomotive. Its rather ironical that frances railways, SNCF, are state owned and our privatised railways are mostly owned by French companies, along with our water, gas and electric. I bet Napoleons laughing in his grave.

 

[Guest]

LB,

You may recall the name 'Flying Fox' was actually introduced by a private railway company, the LNER. Also an awful lot of people complained bitterly at the demise of the private companies in 1948, and the experiences of the 50's and 60's did nothing to dispel that view.

I am not quite sure how you describe fragmentation? You can buy a ticket for use anywhere in the country, you can switch trains, and companies if you wish. The fares for rival companies on identical routes are usually the same, so competition is obviously not being allowed.

Yes, the French do have a franchise, but you will also note that FirstGroup which is British has rail companies, and bus companies in other parts of the world. SNCF has of course just this week been on strike again. Even our old friend Tesco gains nearly 50% of its revenues from countries outside the UK.

Ironically the biggest owner of companies in the US is not the US, or Japan, but the Brits.

 

[smiley]

Shiraz

They already do that and have done for a few years.

Money always talks but not in the NHS.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Shiraz I saw a corrupt Tory government appoint a Ernest Marples as Transport Minster under MacMillan, the era you referred to. He in turn employed a Doctor by the name of Beeching from ICI Fibres at Pontypool to "modernise" the railways. The said Mr Marples had vested interests in roads - Marples Transport and Marples construction who surprise surprise built the countries first motorway, the M1. I still recall seeing Marples Transport lorries. The railways were butchered in favour of a road oriented government. Since then they have never recovered or ever will until they bring back single load freight and make it more competitive. We are now paying the penalty for their corruption in the covering of the country in tarmac, pollution both noise and air. In your post you forgot to state why the French are striking but in case you didnt know its because of the government going to privatise SNCF. I'm sure that anyone who knows France and has travelled on their rail system will admit they probably have the best in the world but not much longer once privatised. 40% of goods still go by rail and 20% by waterways so thats only 40% by road compared to our 97%. That is why we Brits like driving on Frances empty roads. French lorry drivers must think they are in hell when they hit our roads.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Shiraz I saw a corrupt Tory government appoint a Ernest Marples as Transport Minster under MacMillan, the era you referred to. He in turn employed a Doctor by the name of Beeching from ICI Fibres at Pontypool to "modernise" the railways. The said Mr Marples had vested interests in roads - Marples Transport and Marples construction who surprise surprise built the countries first motorway, the M1. I still recall seeing Marples Transport lorries. The railways were butchered in favour of a road oriented government. Since then they have never recovered or ever will until they bring back single load freight and make it more competitive. We are now paying the penalty for their corruption in the covering of the country in tarmac, pollution both noise and air. In your post you forgot to state why the French are striking but in case you didnt know its because of the government going to privatise SNCF. I'm sure that anyone who knows France and has travelled on their rail system will admit they probably have the best in the world but not much longer once privatised. 40% of goods still go by rail and 20% by waterways so thats only 40% by road compared to our 97%. That is why we Brits like driving on Frances empty roads. French lorry drivers must think they are in hell when they hit our roads.

I forgot to mention the good Doctor was a chemist, a fine grounding for a career in railway practice.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

LB,

You may recall the name 'Flying Fox' was actually introduced by a private railway company, the LNER. Also an awful lot of people complained bitterly at the demise of the private companies in 1948, and the experiences of the 50's and 60's did nothing to dispel that view.

I am not quite sure how you describe fragmentation? You can buy a ticket for use anywhere in the country, you can switch trains, and companies if you wish. The fares for rival companies on identical routes are usually the same, so competition is obviously not being allowed.

Yes, the French do have a franchise, but you will also note that FirstGroup which is British has rail companies, and bus companies in other parts of the world. SNCF has of course just this week been on strike again. Even our old friend Tesco gains nearly 50% of its revenues from countries outside the UK.

Ironically the biggest owner of companies in the US is not the US, or Japan, but the Brits.

What you never mentioned was due to those many private companies there was gross duplication/triplication of track. Many stations when one would do. A general rundown of the railways due to the war meant basically the private railways were bankrupt. The corporate colours of the many companies make it, when standing on say Birmingham New St. station as if you are looking through a kaleidoscope. Standardisation saves money. Look where privatisation as taken us regarding rail accidents, underspending on trackwork so the fatcats can get fatter. The Health Service going private? once the Tories are back in it will do, it was becoming that way when they was in power before but it was being done stealthily through the back door and in my mind making profit out of peoples illness is the lowest of the low.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Shiraz I saw a corrupt Tory government appoint a Ernest Marples as Transport Minster under MacMillan, the era you referred to. He in turn employed a Doctor by the name of Beeching from ICI Fibres at Pontypool to "modernise" the railways. The said Mr Marples had vested interests in roads - Marples Transport and Marples construction who surprise surprise built the countries first motorway, the M1. I still recall seeing Marples Transport lorries. The railways were butchered in favour of a road oriented government. Since then they have never recovered or ever will until they bring back single load freight and make it more competitive. We are now paying the penalty for their corruption in the covering of the country in tarmac, pollution both noise and air. In your post you forgot to state why the French are striking but in case you didnt know its because of the government going to privatise SNCF. I'm sure that anyone who knows France and has travelled on their rail system will admit they probably have the best in the world but not much longer once privatised. 40% of goods still go by rail and 20% by waterways so thats only 40% by road compared to our 97%. That is why we Brits like driving on Frances empty roads. French lorry drivers must think they are in hell when they hit our roads.

oops meant Scotch Lad not shiraz. Sorry shiraz.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I would propose that the withdrawall of service be adopted from the drunken people who litter our streets and towns on a ever increasing basis. If they become p****d and incapable let them lie in the gutter where they belong and have them showered by gulley cleaners at regular intervals. They will sharply return to being orderly people who can enjoy a night out without without the binging etc.

The proposal to not give attention to patients who are overweight, can only hasten the day when the managers of the NHS will be proposing removing treatment from people who are old, mentally or physically infirm and patients who have terminal illnesses just to keep within budgets. (remember the people who started WW20

They want to remember that the NHS was started as a service to the people, but it now appears it it a service for the NHS who whilst doing a tremendous of great work are in danger of becoming a species of the past for as sure as eggs are eggs the privateers employed within the service are damn well going to have a private health service.

I am not particulrly in favour of Nationalise services but we have to admit that when we take a nationalised out of public ownership we usually end up wth a rip off alternative. IMHO

Shiraz I understand that under the new licencing laws the pubs/clubs etc. have to pay to clear up but how they think this drunk "on the spot fines" going to work I dont understand. Apparently if you have 2 strikes its an automatic

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

What you never mentioned was due to those many private companies there was gross duplication/triplication of track. Many stations when one would do. A general rundown of the railways due to the war meant basically the private railways were bankrupt. The corporate colours of the many companies make it, when standing on say Birmingham New St. station as if you are looking through a kaleidoscope. Standardisation saves money. Look where privatisation as taken us regarding rail accidents, underspending on trackwork so the fatcats can get fatter. The Health Service going private? once the Tories are back in it will do, it was becoming that way when they was in power before but it was being done stealthily through the back door and in my mind making profit out of peoples illness is the lowest of the low.

http://www.rail.co.uk/ukrail/railcomp/towelcm.htm#E and thats not taking into consideration Network Rail, Railtrack and the many other companies not involved in providing the rolling stock. In 1923 they realised that a fragmented rail system wasnt working and brought in the Grouping Act reducing the system to 4 companies but even then there was mass multiplication of tracks etc.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

I must agree with Lord B on his observations regarding Earnest Marples and Doctor Beeching, although I am a proud Tory voter. Certain professions/industries must be state owned - when they become privatised the only way forward is to profitere at the expence of a decent service. In my opinion the national health/rail and bus transport/fire/police/education and statutory undertakings such as gas, water, electricity, etc. should be publicly owned. The private out of hours health care system is in my opinion the back door way for the start of privatising the medical profession - look at today's paper of the little girl who sadly passed away because a doctor tried to diagnose her condition over the phone.

Morriston Hospital in Swansea at present has more managers than beds - these all being richly awarded and the poor nurse at the bed side is virtually ignored financially. If we paid our front line medical staff as they deserve there would be no call for them to seek work over seas and for this country to import nurses from all corners of the globe to cover.

I only wish I could go on and on with this topic but I could end up like Lord B and reach for the heart tablets or have a deputising doctor tell my wife I am fine over the phone.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I must agree with Lord B on his observations regarding Earnest Marples and Doctor Beeching, although I am a proud Tory voter. Certain professions/industries must be state owned - when they become privatised the only way forward is to profitere at the expence of a decent service. In my opinion the national health/rail and bus transport/fire/police/education and statutory undertakings such as gas, water, electricity, etc. should be publicly owned. The private out of hours health care system is in my opinion the back door way for the start of privatising the medical profession - look at today's paper of the little girl who sadly passed away because a doctor tried to diagnose her condition over the phone.

Morriston Hospital in Swansea at present has more managers than beds - these all being richly awarded and the poor nurse at the bed side is virtually ignored financially. If we paid our front line medical staff as they deserve there would be no call for them to seek work over seas and for this country to import nurses from all corners of the globe to cover.

I only wish I could go on and on with this topic but I could end up like Lord B and reach for the heart tablets or have a deputising doctor tell my wife I am fine over the phone.

Colin you are truly a rarity,a Welsh tory, lmaaooooo. Now they are as rare as rocking horse s**t. heheheh!

 

[colin(bridgend)]

My dear Lord B how dare you suggest that Tories are rare in Wales. We are not all of the same ilk as thought by residents east of Offa's ****. there are a band of people living in Wales who are of their own mind and do not parade like lambs to the slaughter. Should you follow election results you will find there are quite a few thousands of like minded people in Wales with Tory views on life although at the moment I don't think any of the parties have much to offer to Great Britain let alone Wales.

 

[joeby]

no ops if you are weight they would have to leave out 75% NHS

 

[joeby]

Shiraz I saw a corrupt Tory government appoint a Ernest Marples as Transport Minster under MacMillan, the era you referred to. He in turn employed a Doctor by the name of Beeching from ICI Fibres at Pontypool to "modernise" the railways. The said Mr Marples had vested interests in roads - Marples Transport and Marples construction who surprise surprise built the countries first motorway, the M1. I still recall seeing Marples Transport lorries. The railways were butchered in favour of a road oriented government. Since then they have never recovered or ever will until they bring back single load freight and make it more competitive. We are now paying the penalty for their corruption in the covering of the country in tarmac, pollution both noise and air. In your post you forgot to state why the French are striking but in case you didnt know its because of the government going to privatise SNCF. I'm sure that anyone who knows France and has travelled on their rail system will admit they probably have the best in the world but not much longer once privatised. 40% of goods still go by rail and 20% by waterways so thats only 40% by road compared to our 97%. That is why we Brits like driving on Frances empty roads. French lorry drivers must think they are in hell when they hit our roads.

Marples Ridgeway also done a lot of work building new tunnels on the underground in the 1960s

 

[joeby]

no ops if you are weight they would have to leave out 75% NHS

sorry i meant overweight

 

[VIP2006]

Colin - I, until this new Labour government came to power was a member of the the labour party. Voting Tory was and still is a no go area for me and when I found out that I had voted TORY when Blair came into power I decided that in the next 2 elections I refused to vote.

The policies that this new labour government have should suit you. particularly if they have Thatcherite tendencies and if and when Blair crosses the floor to the tory bench a tremendous applause will take place from most loyal labour voters. particularly if you elect him as your leader.

 

[colin(bridgend)]

I am afraid I cannot agree with your observations Shiraz as I am of the opinion that Blair is a law unto himself. He has not got Tory ideas, he is simply making things up as he goes along and appointing "YES MEN" to be his backers. The laws, etc., he has introduced since coming to power are not anything like Tory policy. We are now more of a USA puppet than ever under the Tory government. I think that the first term of office of Mrs Thatcher was excellent, including the pulling in of the trade unions. However in her later terms her government did go too far. We need representation at work but now it is too much in favour of management and not the worker. I was during my employment as a college lecturer the NATFHE union representative for the Construction department within the college, a post I held with pride for almost fifteen years until my retirement. Mr. Scargill was correect in his predictions but unfortunately his method of approach at the time of the dispute was a little over handed. Unfortunately there is not a political party in this country at the moment who will listen to us rank and file elector regarding many day to day issues such as law and order, health, education, immigration, drinking, etc. so who do you vote for????????

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

The only true Tories Colin are us aristocrats, the nobility of this country. The downside is we need the peasant Tories for their vote else we would get nowhere. Long live working class Tories who forget their roots :O)

 

[VIP2006]

Hi colin - if Blairs policies are not similar in content as maggies then I will eat humble pie. I, for a time also worked in Higher Education and moved out of the poly I worked in because of the waste and inefficiency that was evident in Higher Education. Today nothing has changed. and gross inneficiency still exists although the cost is borne by National and not local government.

I often wonder what makes our society revolve as in my early years I was told that our wealth was created by making things and selling them to others whether that be in our own country or the wide wide world. Today it would appear, as I have said before that we are fast becoming a nation of museums, with a great number of them being serviced by living human being and not wax dummies. Not having,by the laws of averages many more years to go, but if we are able to look down from above then it will an interesting event to watch. IMHO

 

[VIP2006]

The only true Tories Colin are us aristocrats, the nobility of this country. The downside is we need the peasant Tories for their vote else we would get nowhere. Long live working class Tories who forget their roots :O)

Long may you reign in ignorance.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Where I'm going I'll need a periscope :O(

 

[colin(bridgend)]

Shiraz once again I must disagree with you as I do not think Blair is going down the same route as Mrs. Thatcher. Mrs Thatcher had definate policies which, although the public agreed with her or not, were brought into legislation and generally were accepted. Mr. Blair's approach is a total fumble and he is governing in a manner similar to panic leading whereby he tries to introduce laws and is then not man enough to see them through in case he upsets some odd ball in either Europe, the PC brigade or God knows who - he has no real backbone unless dictated to by Bush.

Incidently what you said about wasted money in education is spot on. I was in further education and the same applied there with the number of admin staff becoming far more than lecturing and technician staff put together - empire building.