HELP light in front gas locker

Jan 6, 2008
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Hi there

I have a Bailey Ranger 460/4 2007. Can i run a 12volt supply into the front locker to put a light in there. On this model the gas is stored in there along with spare wheel and other bits. I have been thinking of doing this for some time but as the two gas bottles are in there i keep thinking about health and safety legislation.

Best regards Steve
 
Mar 15, 2008
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I don't see why not, we used to own a Lunar Chatteau that had it's onboard water tank complete with 12v pump in the front locker right next to the gas bottles. So if it was OK to put a 12v pump in there it must be technically OK to put a light. Although I think I would rather use a torch myself.

Mike Mc
 
Jul 25, 2007
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It would only take a spark to be produced by the switch or a failing bulb to come into contact with a gas leak and boom. See 'Great Caravan Modification thread'. A light may be less extreme, but still the same risk.
 
Feb 26, 2008
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I use one of those stick-on LED lights made by Osram. They are call "Dot-it" and cost approx
 
Aug 4, 2005
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My current and previous van both had small 12v lights fitted as standard in the front locker. I believe that it is not that unusual for this to be done. The on/off switch is inside the van.

Robert
 
Sep 24, 2008
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Strange you asked this as i had a thread going about fixing a 12v point inside the locker for our coolbox and it was almost a no because of possible sparking.
 
Aug 8, 2007
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Get out of here!

Even if there is a gas leak in your front locker, nothing's going to happen because gas sinks and your van is made with holes in the floor of the front locker for the gas to escape.

Also, if you DID smell gas, would you do anything but turn everything off?

Put your light in - personally I use a stick on LED as someone has said here.

Have you ever heard of a front locker explosion?

Me either.

Mac
 

Damian

Moderator
Mar 14, 2005
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Despite differing views as to whether or not you have a light in th egas locker, the simple facts are that under current electrical safety regulations and gas safety regulations you are NOT allowed any such equipment in a gas locker.

Failure to stick to these regulations means that in th eevent of a problem and serious consequences, the owner would be liable in court for their disregard of the regs.

It would also invalidate any insurance and the person responsible would be liable for any claims made against them.

If you must have a locker light fit it to the A frame cover pointing into the locker, such as Abbey do, and others.
 
Jul 15, 2008
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Wow........ I have a cooker in my caravan with four gas rings.

I can turn a knob to create a gas leak........press a little red button and an electric spark ignites that leak.... and the cooker is inside the caravan with me standing next to it!

LPG is much heavier than air in its gaseous state, as Mark Mac has already said.

The real danger comes from blocking up the vents at or near the floor level of a caravan.

This could lead to the gas concentration building up to a dangerous level.

At this sort of concentration an explosion could follow spark ignition.

As Damian says it is now against the rules to fit an electric light in the front gas locker of a caravan.
 
Aug 4, 2005
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If it is against the rules to fit a light in front gas locker then how is it at least one major British caravan manufacturer fit them as standard in some of their vans - Bailey Senators for example.
 
Jan 6, 2008
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Hi Steve Again

Yes and thats the reason for me asking? this years NEC SHOW British caravan manufacturer fit them as standard in some of their vans. Has legislation changed. My Bailey in the front locker has no floor as such so any gas leak would not stay in the locker area.
 
Jan 6, 2008
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Just got this from Bailey Web-Site :-

Senator Series 6 - Features

EXTERIOR

Fully bonded exterior body shell with 6-Year integrity guarantee

AL-KO galvanised chassis with Euro-axle

AL-KO AKS 3004 Stabiliser

Gas strut assisted handbrake

AL-KO chassis mounted spare wheel carrier and spare wheel (steel spare wheel)

AL-KO caravan jack

Fully insulated walls, floor and roof to grade II classification of EN1645-I (Panel thickness : Sides 28mm, Ceiling 31mm & Floor 44mm)

Full height ABS front panel with high line profile and integral grab handles

Gas bottle locker with gas strut assisted door

Gas locker courtesy light **************************************

Truma 30mbr gas regulator

Full height ABS rear panel with integral light cluster and integral grab handles

Individual rear light units

External gas barbeque point

Exterior 230v mains socket

Flush fit awning light

Status telescopic directional television aerial

NEW

Impact resistant 5000 Series smooth finish aluminum skin

AL-KO ATC trailer control system

AL-KO shock absorbers (models manufactured from September 2008 onwards only)

Style 14" alloy wheels with low profile tyres

Twin section Hartel exterior door with double glazed window and blind plus moulded interior liner and integral waste bin

Polyplastic silver framed double glazed windows throughout

Design ABS step up A-frame fairing
 
Mar 14, 2005
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I do not know what the latest regs and codes of practice are in detail, but it is sensible to separate electrics from water and gas systems where practical, but of course there are appliances where gas and electricity meet and where gas water and electricity meet. So given the necessary protection and safety systems it is permissible to combine these elements.

I would be very surprised if a major caravan manufacturer had failed to observe the necessary codes of practice. Whilst I often accuse them of not doing proper design thinking, issues such as gas and electrical installations are usually scrutinised by an independent assessor for the type approvals so the chances of an oversight going un-noticed are quite small.

In reality whilst there is some danger with the light in a gas bottle locker, it would require a combination of faults to produce an explosive situation. Obviously an escape of gas, but also the gas bottle locker would need its fixed ventilation to be obstructed especially at the the bottom to prevent the LPG (which is heavier than air) to escape, and any source of ignition has to be present and accessible to any gas and air mixture.

The two common LPG's used in caravans are Butane and Propane. In may respects they are very similar and that is why they are so often interchangeable. To become combustible they need to be mixed with air, but they must be in the correct mixture range, other wise they will not burn or explode. (Butane 1.8-9.5%, Propane 2-10% Gas to Air mixture)

The mixture needs to be exposed to an ignition source to cause it to propagate a flame. The source needs to be hot enough to start the chemical reaction. Both gasses require an ignition temperature of about 2,250C or above.

Most gas bottle lockers have copious ventilation set at high and low levels, and it would probably need a deliberate act to provide enough occlusion to cause a gas leak to collect and build up within the locker. This ventilation is essential for two main reasons, firstly an most importantly to allow the gas bottle access to the ambient air so they can collect the necessary heat from the air that allows the content to boil to produce gas. The second of equal importance but not so frequently needed is to allow any spillage of LPG to escape and dissipate safely.

It is therefore unlikely that all the ventilation will be blocked, and the gas mixes with the right proportions of air to create an potentially explosive mixture.

Where a light is fitted, it is not the bulb that is likely to ignite the gas, as it is simply not hot enough, but it is the possibility of sparking from the switch contacts. Here again, most switch contacts are contained within some sort of housing, and they do not generally have free air movement around them, so even if the light housing was surrounded by a flammable mixture the casing provide some barrier between the contacts and the flammable mixture.

It would need more than one of the features above to be compromised at the same time to produce a dangerous situation. There is probably more danger from using the open flamed gas cooker and oven inside the caravan than a problem in the gas bottle locker. However there is a significant difference, and that is with the occupation of people inside the caravan may well smell gas sooner rather than later, where as outside the problem may go unnoticed for some time allowing the conditions to arise.

On balance I still err on the side of safety and suggest it is not a good idea to have 12Vdc or even 230Vac systems inside the gas bottle locker.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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My senator 2004, has the locker light on the outside, in the A frame fairing.

It is possible to install lighting suitable for a gaseous environment, which could go into the bottle box.
 

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