Highway Code changes Changes are being introduced on January 29

[JezzerB]

Cyclists don't use cycle lanes because when they get to junctions they have to stop and give way to cars etc. If they use the road they have the same rights as cars.This may have changed under the new code but I have a sneaky sympathy with their thinking. It demoted them to pedestrian road users when in fact they can travel pretty quickly, probably fast enough for anyone in town. On a training run in town why have to keep stopping. ? We all need to give rather than take and look after any fellow road user.

 

[Buckman]

Cyclists don't use cycle lanes because when they get to junctions they have to stop and give way to cars etc. If they use the road they have the same rights as cars.This may have changed under the new code but I have a sneaky sympathy with their thinking. It demoted them to pedestrian road users when in fact they can travel pretty quickly, probably fast enough for anyone in town. On a training run in town why have to keep stopping. ? We all need to give rather than take and look after any fellow road user.

We are all supposed to be equal?

 

[woodsieboy]

So if cyclists choose not to use cycle lanes,why bother to provide them, I am happy to have designated cycle lanes,but expect cyclists to use them,otherwise what is the point?

 

[JezzerB]

We are all supposed to be equal?

No now pedestrians and cyclists have more protection in an order of hierarchy in terms of the vehicle. After all a car can do far more damage to a person than vice versa.
As for cycle tracks just stating fact. Rightly or wrongly they have a choice. Plenty die or are knocked off. I'd always choose the cycle lane over speed but....

 

[Tobes]

So if cyclists choose not to use cycle lanes,why bother to provide them, I am happy to have designated cycle lanes,but expect cyclists to use them,otherwise what is the point?

The question is really the suitability of the cycle lane. Not all cycle lanes are equal.

In Milton Keynes, bikes and pedestrians were designed into the city. I have cycled there and its a dream. The cycle lanes and footpaths (redways) all have underpasses to cross the grid system roads, and merge with regular traffic calmed roads in suburbs.

In Northampton, cycle lanes were added post fact. They have drain covers in them that will swallow a wheel, cars parked in them, share the space with busses and taxis. There, I would rather avoid having to merge with moving traffic to avoid a stopped bus or taxi, or parked car, or dangerous pothole or drain cover.

 

[Buckman]

No now pedestrians and cyclists have more protection in an order of hierarchy in terms of the vehicle. After all a car can do far more damage to a person than vice versa.
As for cycle tracks just stating fact. Rightly or wrongly they have a choice. Plenty die or are knocked off. I'd always choose the cycle lane over speed but....

My friend's brother was killed back in the sixties by a cyclist speeding down a cycle path and not paying attention to where he was going. Something I have never forgotten.
I had a cyclist collide with my vehicle as he did not believe that Stop signs applied to cyclists as well. No damage to cyclist but company car front fender dented.
Unfortunately there are a minority of cyclists that seem to give all cyclists a bad name.

 

[Jcloughie]

When I read the new rules I don’t think I have objection except with the new hierarchy of responsibility based on vunrability. Making lorry drivers have the highest and pedestrians the lowest. I feel it may detract from my own idea that everyone should have equal responcibility for their own safety and the safety of those affected by their actions and their omissions. (You may be ably to see that I had H&S responsibilities in the past).

My first reaction though was negative, but this was influenced by the media.

I also remember that giving way to pedestrians at junctions is far from new. Just being reinforced. The French have always been keen on this, hence zebra crossings close to junctions. But not very well respected by motorist imho. Always makes me smile if I give way to a pedestrian on a zebra that often they looked shocked. And often cars still cross on the opposite side of the road.

I don’t think there is any new leglistlation, just advisory rules. Of course if you don’t follow you could be prosecuted under existing laws like due care and attention.

I did try out the ‘Dutch reach’ idea. But I don’t bend like I did, and actually find my rear view is much better using the mirror. (Which I always do).

John

 

[Tobes]

When I read the new rules I don’t think I have objection except with the new hierarchy of responsibility based on vunrability. Making lorry drivers have the highest and pedestrians the lowest. I feel it may detract from my own idea that everyone should have equal responcibility for their own safety and the safety of those affected by their actions. (You may be ably to see that I had H&S responsibilities in the past).

Just one note, from the government link.
“
The Highway Code will be updated to include 3 new rules about the new ‘hierarchy of road users’.

The hierarchy places those road users most at risk in the event of a collision at the top of the hierarchy. It does not remove the need for everyone to behave responsibly.
“
It calls out a hierarchy of road users, not responsibility, and indicates that everyone need to behave responsibly.
Personally, I think this is welcome.

 

[Jcloughie]

Just one note, from the government link.
“
The Highway Code will be updated to include 3 new rules about the new ‘hierarchy of road users’.

The hierarchy places those road users most at risk in the event of a collision at the top of the hierarchy. It does not remove the need for everyone to behave responsibly.
“
It calls out a hierarchy of road users, not responsibility, and indicates that everyone need to behave responsibly.
Personally, I think this is welcome.

I have no doubt of your interpretation is correct, it makes better sense . But not what was reported on TV and media. Would you believe they could get it wrong.

For example this article in the Evening Standard clearly states, the lower down the hierarchy you are, ie. lorry driver, the greater responsibility you have to others. I agree that that makes some sense. But not if it removes or absolves responsibility from those at the top.

Highway Code rules: What are the new changes and who gets priority at roundabouts?

Major changes to the Highway Code come into effect on Saturday.

www.standard.co.uk

John

 

[Parksy]

The old HGV driving instructor adage that was passed on to me when I was learning to pass my Class 1 HGV test in the early 80s still holds true.
It went " Expect the worst from every other road user and you'll always be prepared and rarely disappointed".
There are indeed cyclists who give the majority of cyclists a bad name, and there are motorists who give other motorists a bad name.
Lorry drivers - I could write a book!
I sometimes wonder how some pedestrians survive without proper supervision when they're out and about.
The bottom line has to be to ask oneself if it's worth injuring, or worse, another road user. whatever their mode of transport, just to save the few seconds which will be lost at the next set of traffic lights anyway?
I see the amendments to the H C as an attempt to restore the courtesy and consideration that should never have been absent in the first place.

 

[JezzerB]

So true Parksy. Buckman you like me will be glad to see they've ramped up the punishment for careless cycling I think. There are idiots out there walking riding and driving in every sort of vehicle. I just treat everyone as such. Expect the worst at all times. Occasionally you might be heartened!

 

[otherclive]

When I read the new rules I don’t think I have objection except with the new hierarchy of responsibility based on vunrability. Making lorry drivers have the highest and pedestrians the lowest. I feel it may detract from my own idea that everyone should have equal responcibility for their own safety and the safety of those affected by their actions. (You may be ably to see that I had H&S responsibilities in the past).

My first reaction though was negative, but this was influenced by the media.

I also remember that giving way to pedestrians at junctions is far from new. Just being reinforced. The French have always been keen on this, hence zebra crossings close to junctions. But not very well respected by motorist imho. Always makes me smile if I give way to a pedestrian on a zebra that often they looked shocked. And often cars still cross on the opposite side of the road.

I don’t think there is any new leglistlation, just advisory rules. Of course if you don’t follow you could be prosecuted under existing laws like due care and attention.

I did try out the ‘Dutch reach’ idea. But I don’t bend like I did, and actually find my rear view is much better using the mirror. (Which I always do).

John

Some ill considered headlines were even reporting that drivers could be fined up to £1000 if they did not use the Dutch Reach when opening their car doors. What a load of tosh. It would calm things down if the reporting journalists took time to read the new Highway Code sections. But that would lead to less emotive headlines and reduced hits on the websites, and reduced advertising revenue.

 

[Buckman]

So true Parksy. Buckman you like me will be glad to see they've ramped up the punishment for careless cycling I think. There are idiots out there walking riding and driving in every sort of vehicle. I just treat everyone as such. Expect the worst at all times. Occasionally you might be heartened!

The main culprits could be those listening to music while cycling and not paying a attention to the road. One thing that should be banned is cyclists riding abreast on an A road so that they can have a nice chat and holding up traffic!

 

[Woodentop]

The old HGV driving instructor adage that was passed on to me when I was learning to pass my Class 1 HGV test in the early 80s still holds true.
It went " Expect the worst from every other road user and you'll always be prepared and rarely disappointed".
There are indeed cyclists who give the majority of cyclists a bad name, and there are motorists who give other motorists a bad name.
Lorry drivers - I could write a book!
I sometimes wonder how some pedestrians survive without proper supervision when they're out and about.
The bottom line has to be to ask oneself if it's worth injuring, or worse, another road user. whatever their mode of transport, just to save the few seconds which will be lost at the next set of traffic lights anyway?
I see the amendments to the H C as an attempt to restore the courtesy and consideration that should never have been absent in the first place.

You will often see figures quoted of '3nnn people killed on the roads in the UK last year' or whatever. What they <don't> tell you is that about 2/3 of those deaths are caused by pedestrians walking out in front of vehicles. People killed in car crashes is usually less than about 500, but we all get penalised for both.

Giving pedestrians priority over traffic turning into a side road will just result in walkers (AND joggers) taking no notice of traffic and walking into the road without ever looking. They set this piroity in Canada* and that was the outcome.
(*Letter in Sunday Times 23/01/22)

 

[Buckman]

No objection to giving way to a pedestrian when turning left as always done that, but it can be annoying when they amble across the road as if they have all the time in the world. In the meantime you have other cars backed up behind you.

 

[otherclive]

You will often see figures quoted of '3nnn people killed on the roads in the UK last year' or whatever. What they <don't> tell you is that about 2/3 of those deaths are caused by pedestrians walking out in front of vehicles. People killed in car crashes is usually less than about 500, but we all get penalised for both.

Giving pedestrians priority over traffic turning into a side road will just result in walkers (AND joggers) taking no notice of traffic and walking into the road without ever looking. They set this piroity in Canada* and that was the outcome.
(*Letter in Sunday Times 23/01/22)

Not sure what 3nnn means but the average road death casualties are around 1800 per year.
BRAKE give a breakdown of the statistics so you can see in detail what age or groups are most affected.

https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/uk-road-safety#:~:text=The number of road deaths in the UK,to record severity has changed in recent years.

Being a pedestrian, cyclist and driver I try to be aware of what I am doing and what others may do, when I am out irrespective of what mode I’m in. I really don’t understand the comment “ all get penalised”. Even before the new Highway Code changes a motorist hitting a pedestrian on a junction would have been lucky not to incur some penalty. Back in the 1960 s an aunt of mine stepped out in front of a car near a junction. Fortunately she wasn’t badly hurt, but the driver was fined. So in reality not a lot has changed. Awareness and consideration are required by all road users whatever their mode.

 

[otherclive]

The main culprits could be those listening to music while cycling and not paying a attention to the road. One thing that should be banned is cyclists riding abreast on an A road so that they can have a nice chat and holding up traffic!

Rule 66 of the Highway Code actually supports two abreast riding in certain circumstances. It can be safer for the motorist too has the driver had a shorter distance to cover when overtaking the group.

 

[Buckman]

Rule 66 of the Highway Code actually supports two abreast riding in certain circumstances. It can be safer for the motorist too has the driver had a shorter distance to cover when overtaking the group.

Not funny on rural roads when you come around a bend and the cyclist riding abreast is in the middle of the road. Cars are not allowed to drive abreast of one another so that they can have a chat instead of the drivers concentrating on the road. Cyclists also have responsibilities to other road users and pedestrians!

 

[Tobes]

Not funny on rural roads when you come around a bend and the cyclist riding abreast is in the middle of the road. Cars are not allowed to drive abreast of one another so that they can have a chat instead of the drivers concentrating on the road. Cyclists also have responsibilities to other road users and pedestrians!

If you come round a bend and discover a pair of cyclists two abreast within a car width, then you would have been in a difficult position if it it had been a car, or tractor.
If any road user is ever surprised by what they encounter round a bend, they the are going too fast for the road conditions.

Suggesting cars are not allowed to drive two abreast is frankly ridiculous whataboutery. Cycling two abreast on country roads is both allowed and now recommended.
Yes, cyclists have responsibilities to other road users and pedestrians, as do car drivers.

 

[Tobes]

The main culprits could be those listening to music while cycling and not paying a attention to the road. One thing that should be banned is cyclists riding abreast on an A road so that they can have a nice chat and holding up traffic!

Do car drivers never listen to the radio or music in the car? Or have a conversation with a passenger? Asking for a friend.

 

[Buckman]

If you come round a bend and discover a pair of cyclists two abreast within a car width, then you would have been in a difficult position if it it had been a car, or tractor.
If any road user is ever surprised by what they encounter round a bend, they the are going too fast for the road conditions.

Suggesting cars are not allowed to drive two abreast is frankly ridiculous whataboutery. Cycling two abreast on country roads is both allowed and now recommended.
Yes, cyclists have responsibilities to other road users and pedestrians, as do car drivers.

Only selfish uncaring cyclists ride two abreast on blind bends on country lanes. These cyclists are generally abreast of a cyclist who is already about a metre or more from the side of the road. When I drive on country lanes I have to take this type of uncaring cyclist into consideration.
Local drivers like myself are aware not to speed into blind bends. Invariably these cyclists are not local and thank goodness they are a minority.

 

[Parksy]

This thread is descending into an anti cyclist rant.
Calm down.
If a large tractor or truck was around a blind bend surely that would also have to be taken into consideration?

 

[Buckman]

This thread is descending into an anti cyclist rant.
Calm down.
If a large tractor or truck was around a blind bend surely that would also have to be taken into consideration?

In most cases you can see them and they are unlikely to be on the wrong side of the road. Our lanes around here are not as wide as an A road. As said it is only a minority that have this flippant attitude towards other road users. Luckily for them most of us are cautious when using the lanes around our village.

 

[Parksy]

In most cases you can see them and they are unlikely to be on the wrong side of the road. Our lanes around here are not as wide as an A road. As said it is only a minority that have this flippant attitude towards other road users. Luckily for them most of us are cautious when using the lanes around our village.

The new changes to the HC are there to ensure that everyone is cautious and courteous toward other road users, whether in town or countryside, including cyclists and pedestrians who'se vulnerability has now been recognised.

 

[JezzerB]

My motor cycle test still feels quite recent; 10 years ago. I had to do the Highway code and hazard perception test alongside the teenagers! The warning-never drive round a bend faster than you can see to stop still rings in my ears from my training-I ignored it once and had just that-a tractor filling the whole road travelling toward me far faster than cyclists. I managed to stop/slow for us both to pull over but lesson learned-the easy way thank fully and one I always now remember. If you are driving that fast round a rural bend that 2 bikes abreast cause you an issue you are sadly driving too fast.