How green is green?

[Lutz]

I was talking to a neighbour yesterday about his new car and he was boasting about how 'green' it was (I won't say what model or else we'll get caught in a futile discussion again). This morning I saw him scraping ice off the windows with the engine running. Seems a bit irrational to me to talk about green cars and then blow all those fumes needlessly into the air without the car going anywhere, even if they are a bit cleaner than others.

 

[SteveW77]

In my experience all "Greenies" are irrational.

Steve W

 

[Angus1]

If your neighbour was that green, he wouldn`t have purchased a new car, but would run a classic instead.

 

[JTQ]

What "Classic" car ever had Green technology? Thought they mostly had carburettors and chokes.

 

[Angus1]

More energy is used in the manufacture of a car than it will use in its lifetime, the premature scrapping of vehicles isn`t `environmentally friendly`.

Theres so much `guff` written about "the environment" which is mostly half-truths and rubbish. For instance `water-based` paints used on cars which is `more environmentally friendly` than the `nasty solvent stuff`, er, only it isn`t when the overall environmental impact is assessed, but the tree-huggers would never let facts get in the way of a bit of propaganda.

 

[Danny_5134221]

If he were a true green he would of bought an electric car, or use public transport as were are told to do.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Danny,

I support the idea of being rationally green as is reasonable, and whilst electric cars do not produce CO2 from their exhausts, the power has to come from somewhere, and that is of course the power station, so the Power station produce the CO2 for the car.

In terms of actual power efficiency, electric cars are not as good as they are frequently shown. The big power stations are at best no more than about 40% efficient (coal or gas to electricity). The battery in the car will only hold about 50% of the power supplied to charge it, so of the coal or gas burnt only about 20% is retained in the battery. The electric motors will vary in their efficiency depending on load and so in terms of motive power an electric car may only be using 10 to 15% of the energy released from the fuel burnt in the power station.

That is roughly the same thermal efficiency as a conventional petrol or diesel engine. No fumes from the exhaust, but roughly the equivalent amount of CO2 is produced by the power stations.

It is the case that whilst the power stations do produce roughly the same amount of CO2 as a conventional equivalent car, the levels of other pollutants will be lower through the better control of actual combustion.

Only when cars are powered by wind or solar energy will the CO2 impact be significantly reduced.

 

[Steven_374224300]

A few electric only cars come from Asia, ie India.

How green is shipping them to here?

 

[Steve L]

To be quite realistic most "green" products are mor a darker shade of yellow if you get my drift.

For instance. Is more non renewable energy used to produce the "eco friendly" product. for instance batteries that power cars.

What about the shipping of "green" products all the way from China to the UK for an example. Does the ship/plane travel "eco friendly"?

I think if you sit down to ponder these hypathetical questions then your "british racing green" impression then goes more towards pale "green".

So just how green is green?

Steve L.

 

[GeorgeB]

Whilst I try to be as green as possible, I do like my "moden comforts" & would'nt give them up entirely without a fight!

But if you really really wanted to be "carbon neutral" this is what you would have to do;

1. live in a house made of earth, wood and straw.

2. have no windows.

3. wear only clothes made of animal skins or natural fibres.

4. Have no electricity, sorry solar power, wind power & batteries use carbon in their production.

5. have no sanitation, save for an earth closet for your toilet.

6. have no clean water except for well water that has to be boiled.

7. have no means of communication except for the spoken word.

8. have no means of lighting except that from animal fats or naturally occuring oils.

9. be totaly organic, grow your own veg, raise your own animals.

I could go on, but by now i'm sure your getting the point, do you really want to go back to the dark ages????? I don't, but we can all do our bit, be sensible, recycle as much as possible, if you have to run a car, run a diesel, they're more efficeint than petrol, don't accept more packaging than absolutely necissary, turn the central heating down, etc. etc. etc.

and last, but not least GO CARAVANING, dont fly.

GeorgeB

 

[Lutz]

Actually, air transport doesn't fair too badly if you calculate fuel consumption on a miles per gallon per passenger basis. Long haul aircraft can manage well over 60 which is no worse than two people taking their car and caravan.

 

[Lutz]

Whilst I try to be as green as possible, I do like my "moden comforts" & would'nt give them up entirely without a fight!

But if you really really wanted to be "carbon neutral" this is what you would have to do;

1. live in a house made of earth, wood and straw.

2. have no windows.

3. wear only clothes made of animal skins or natural fibres.

4. Have no electricity, sorry solar power, wind power & batteries use carbon in their production.

5. have no sanitation, save for an earth closet for your toilet.

6. have no clean water except for well water that has to be boiled.

7. have no means of communication except for the spoken word.

8. have no means of lighting except that from animal fats or naturally occuring oils.

9. be totaly organic, grow your own veg, raise your own animals.

I could go on, but by now i'm sure your getting the point, do you really want to go back to the dark ages????? I don't, but we can all do our bit, be sensible, recycle as much as possible, if you have to run a car, run a diesel, they're more efficeint than petrol, don't accept more packaging than absolutely necissary, turn the central heating down, etc. etc. etc.

and last, but not least GO CARAVANING, dont fly.

GeorgeB

No sanitation can hardly be considered green. Earth which has been contaminated with effluent must be disposed of as hazardous waste.

 

[Lutz]

Now this is what I call 'green' caravanning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAvHDaffU7s

 

[RickyLionheart]

Although it is impossible to be totally "green" we must all "do our bit" to try and reduce our carbon foot print.

Look at how you live your life, are you recycling? could you walk to work? is your house insulated? are you needlessly using electrical appliances? etc, etc.

Global warming is with us so don't bury your heads in the sand and try to "do your bit" however small

 

[sparkes]

Global warming has always been with us. The earth heats and cools on a cycle.

No-one has proven that our carbon footprint has an effect on this normal cycle as this is the first time we can measure it. What happens when this cycle finishes? Will all the green's become browns to keep the world warm?

 

[RickyLionheart]

"Global warming has always been with us. The earth heats and cools on a cycle"

True but over millions of years.

This last century has seen an unprecedented rise in average temperatures throughout the world.

Look at the recent extreme weather conditions we have experienced,I'm afraid you are suffering from the "Ostrich syndrome

 

[sparkes]

Approximately every 100,000 years Earth's climate warms up temporarily. These warm periods, called interglacial periods, appear to last approximately 15,000 to 20,000 years before regressing back to a cold ice age climate. At year 18,000 and counting our current interglacial vacation from the Ice Age is much nearer its end than its beginning.

Global warming during Earth's current interglacial warm period has greatly altered our environment and the distribution and diversity of all life. For example:

Approximately 15,000 years ago the earth had warmed sufficiently to halt the advance of glaciers, and sea levels worldwide began to rise.

By 8,000 years ago the land bridge across the Bearing Strait was drowned, cutting off the migration of men and animals to North America.

Since the end of the Ice Age, Earth's temperature has risen approximately 16 degrees F and sea levels have risen a total of 300 feet! Forests have returned where once there was only ice.

And please don't accuse people of having the "Ostrich syndrome" just because they do not agree with you! That just shows a attitude that you think you are better than everyone else

 

[sparkes]

Approximately every 100,000 years Earth's climate warms up temporarily. These warm periods, called interglacial periods, appear to last approximately 15,000 to 20,000 years before regressing back to a cold ice age climate. At year 18,000 and counting our current interglacial vacation from the Ice Age is much nearer its end than its beginning.

Global warming during Earth's current interglacial warm period has greatly altered our environment and the distribution and diversity of all life. For example:

Approximately 15,000 years ago the earth had warmed sufficiently to halt the advance of glaciers, and sea levels worldwide began to rise.

By 8,000 years ago the land bridge across the Bearing Strait was drowned, cutting off the migration of men and animals to North America.

Since the end of the Ice Age, Earth's temperature has risen approximately 16 degrees F and sea levels have risen a total of 300 feet! Forests have returned where once there was only ice.

And please don't accuse people of having the "Ostrich syndrome" just because they do not agree with you! That just shows a attitude that you think you are better than everyone else

Sorry, Missed this out

Climate change is controlled primarily by cyclical eccentricities in Earth's rotation and orbit, as well as variations in the sun's energy output.

"Greenhouse gases" in Earth's atmosphere also influence Earth's temperature, but in a much smaller way. Human additions to total greenhouse gases play a still smaller role, contributing about 0.2% - 0.3% to Earth's greenhouse effect.

Did you know the biggest green house gas is water vapour? How are green peace going to stop evaporation of the sea's?

 

[emmerson2]

Steve, that's you and me both with sandy heads! I'm glad I'm not alone!!

 

[Angus1]

Don`t think that facts will deflect the tree-huggers from disagreeing with you.

If they said we were going to get hit by a comet but raising taxes would prevent it there would be people who would believe it.

 

[sparkes]

Another interesting real fact about this

The whole human race contributes an amount to the greenhouse effect. That amount is...

0.28% (yes, I have the calculations if you want them)

Now if the whole race contributes that much, How can changing a light bulb in my bedroom to a green one, make any difference other than costing me twice as much to buy?

 

[emmerson2]

Ricky, your catch-phrase about ostriches and sand is getting boring. Can you find a different one please?

 

[rayc]

steve you miss the point with your comment "Now if the whole race contributes that much, How can changing a light bulb in my bedroom to a green one, make any difference other than costing me twice as much to buy"?

We all know that the way to save the planet is to pay more money in taxes to Gordon Brown and Ken Livingstone.

I work in London regularly on weekend nights. There are miles of government buildings and office blocks lit up 24/7. This is whilst old people are made to feel guilty about having a bit of heat on at home.

 

[sparkes]

All this can be traced back to some simple comments, and I quote!

"We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest."

Stephen Schneider (leading advocate of the global warming theory) (in interview for Discover magazine, Oct 1989)

____________

"Scientists who want to attract attention to themselves, who want to attract great funding to themselves, have to (find a) way to scare the public . . . and this you can achieve only by making things bigger and more dangerous than they really are."

Petr Chylek

(Professor of Physics and Atmospheric Science, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia) Commenting on reports by other researchers that Greenland's glaciers are melting.

(Halifax Chronicle-Herald, August 22, 2001) (8)

 

[RickyLionheart]

Sparkes, we can all "Google" the facts and figures, the unquestionable Fact is that burning fossil fuels is contributing to global warming.

The last century proves this.

I am trying to do something about it

What are you doing?

Instead of wasting your time quoting "the facts" but doing nothing about it why don't you divert some of your energy into something constructive like looking at your lifestyle and seeing where you can reduce YOUR carbon foot print