How's everyone's mpg?

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Jul 22, 2014
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TheTravellingRooster said:
It is a known fact that OBC's offer wildly and widely optimistic figures because of the laboratory conditions that they are conceived in..... I have not said that the manufactures 'deliberately anything'

No conspiracy then. I don't know how the OBC's work, but I would not trust them much if they are based on measuring the fuel flow rate and integrating it over the journey (but how else would they do it?).

TheTravellingRooster said:
...My 2005 Volvo ... gives out figures that when checked against brim to brim ......

Yes, having done quite a bit of engineering testing myself I would agree that is the way to do it, to take raw measurements with as few intermediate things to go wrong as possible. So fill the tank to the brim (pump cut-out) and zero the odometer trip. Drive. Next time fill to the brim again (at the same pump if possible) and note how much goes in. Pumps are pretty accurate, Customs and Excise see to that. Note your trip mileage - car odometers are fairly accurate. Divide the one figure by the other. I used to do this every time I filled up.

TheTravellingRooster said:
... there are vehicles out there that whether solo or towing there is little or no difference in fuel figures recorded, a classic example of that was my last Ford Granada 2.8i GhiaX Auto Estate.

Fords (I had one once) never had a great reputation for mpg. Maybe modern ones are better. Used to think they must spray fuel into the exhaust manifold LoL! They were good at starting in the cold though, when most cars weren't, perhaps for the same reason. The older Jaguar V12's used to get only about 11-12 mpg and I don't think it made much difference what they were doing; it's a mystery what the engine did with it all, perhaps maintaining all that reserve power ;)
 
Mar 14, 2005
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TheTravellingRooster said:
.................
It is a known fact that OBC's offer wildly and widely optimistic figures because of the laboratory conditions that they are conceived in. They are not nor have they ever been collected in real world situations.

You ave introduces an acronym that I'm not familiar with, Without that knowledge your post makes no sense. What does 'OBC' stand for?
 
Feb 4, 2014
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ProfJohnL said:
TheTravellingRooster said:
.................
It is a known fact that OBC's offer wildly and widely optimistic figures because of the laboratory conditions that they are conceived in. They are not nor have they ever been collected in real world situations.

You ave introduces an acronym that I'm not familiar with, Without that knowledge your post makes no sense. What does 'OBC' stand for?

I think that would be 'On Board Computer' John. I haven't got one of those in my basic model Skoda so have to do the sums. On my journey back from East Sussex (to West Wiltshire) recently I topped up the tank, and after a steady, trouble-free journey along the A27 etc, back home, I topped up again and came up with a figure of 49.5mpg towing the Gobur home. I've obviously made a mistake somewhere as that's more than I recorded after the last record I made of solo running!
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Thank you Cynthia,

That was my first guess, but I could not make the initial post in which appeared to make sense with that meaning, So I really need TR to clarify his interpretation of 'OBC'.
 
Mar 9, 2012
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ProfJohnL said:
Thank you Cynthia,

That was my first guess, but I could not make the initial post in which appeared to make sense with that meaning, So I really need TR to clarify his interpretation of 'OBC'.

Hi ProfJohnL. I would have thought that a man of your perceived/alleged Caliba would have been more than conversant with the abbreviation of OBC as being :- On Board Computer.
Indeed my very first encounter with the OBC was on my 1983 Ford Granada 2.8i GhiaX Auto Estate.
 
Mar 9, 2012
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Hi again to all that are following this rather controversial subject.
As per my earlier post I have taken the SuperSirocco to Huddersfield to have the work carried out at West Riding Leisure and now come back with my initial findings.
Just for the record I had previously made mention of the rather disappointing towing figures for my 2005 (05) Volvo 2.4ltr V70 D5 SE Geartronic against my (now sold) 1997 2.3 Volvo V70 T5 CD Auto.
After filling to the brim and zeroing everything and then driving to Huddersfield from the fuel station and then filling to the brim again I recorded 20.27mpg - the OBC showed average 30.3mpg.

On the basis of the previous fill-up to the towing exercise the calculated figure was 34.74mpg against the OBC figure of 40.3mpg.

The trip to Huddersfield was 95% motorway and in perfectly calm and dry conditions with absolutely no hold-ups.
 
Jul 28, 2014
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We have a humble Skoda Elegance 140 bhp with DSG box and autocruise, pulling 1335 t0 1350 klg. Done now 55600 miles and a log which tells me everything about it say,s average 43 mpg in 9 years, towing gives around 31plus a bit according to traffic. On French motorways it sails along giving up to 37 mpg. Solo have had 65 even 70 mpg on my run up to Dartford tunnel. Years ago I had a 04 Nissen XTRAIL SPORT auto ,lovely car but mpg dreadful at 19 mpg..
 
Mar 9, 2012
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teal1928 said:
We have a humble Skoda Elegance 140 bhp with DSG box and autocruise, pulling 1335 t0 1350 klg. Done now 55600 miles and a log which tells me everything about it say,s average 43 mpg in 9 years, towing gives around 31plus a bit according to traffic. On French motorways it sails along giving up to 37 mpg. Solo have had 65 even 70 mpg on my run up to Dartford tunnel. Years ago I had a 04 Nissen XTRAIL SPORT auto ,lovely car but mpg dreadful at 19 mpg..

Hi teal. Yes. but in both cases were these figures actual and brimmed at each fill-up and physically worked out by converting litres to gallons using 4.5461ltres/gallon or were they off an OBC?
 
Jul 28, 2014
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Hi, yes brim to rim and by 4.5. If I go by the OBC its more so never trust it. I travel up the A21 to Dartford quite a bit and by using cruise control and not in a hurry try to get to the toll where the OBC gets to 70 mpg at times other wise 60+ mpg. Of course this is solo with one passenger.
 
May 15, 2007
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I pull a Lunar Delta ti with a Nissan Elgrand Highwaystar 3.5 V6 LPG and get about 15 mpg but with LPG at 69.9p a ltr it works out at about the same as 28mpg in price to petrol. The point is if you tow with a performance vehicle you don't expect to get 50mpg , but its great fun !!
 
Jun 19, 2014
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I tow a Bailey Ranger 550/6 with a Land Rover Defender 90 Td5 2001 I get 25-28 towing and 30 solo. I have just started using BP Ultima and although there is a vast improvement in performance and general running ie starting and engine noise I have found the mpg has not improved. Thoug some of this may be due to my going faster with the better performance.
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello TR.

Thank you for clarifying what you meant by OBC, as On Borad Computer.

Now going back to your posting of 1 week 3 days ago.

TheTravellingRooster said:
...
It is a known fact that OBC's offer wildly and widely optimistic figures because of the laboratory conditions that they are conceived in. They are not nor have they ever been collected in real world situations.....

Your statement is too strong. It is not a 'known fact'. Some examples may read optimistically some of the time. But equally I have witnessed some OBC giving both optimistic and pessimistic results and there could be good reasons for it.

I am certain that none of the car manufacturers will be claiming 100% weights and measures accuracy for their OBC readings, they are just guidelines, but equally I am certain none of them will be deliberately making their products read optimistically.

OBC results are gained from a rolling average over several readings. It will depend on the specification of each car, but of one particular car I owned the manufacture explained the averaged MPG was derived from the last 800 miles of motoring.

The disadvantage of this is the results are always lagging the instantaneous results you might get from a brim to brim check.

So if you have been running your car solo and in light traffic for 800 miles the averaged mpg will have improved. If you the do a tank full of towing, the brim to brim value will be lower than the cars cars 800 mile average so you will see an optimistic discrepancy.

The converse is also true, and I have seen pessimistic results from the OBC

Rather than just comparing one brim to brim result, if you were to check it over several brim to brim fillings you are more likely to see your results converge with the cars read out.

Its unlikely you will see exactly the same readings, because the only way the car can record the fuel used is to add up each of the small amounts of fuel it injects into each cylinder. The margin of error proportionally increases as measurement values become smaller, so the sum of the injected fuel has a higher probability of being slightly different to total fuel measured in one go.

In reality the difference could go either way.

The summation of the injected fuel is as much real world as the brim to brim method, its just a question of what is reasonable accuracy for the method employed.

For example if I were to ask you to add 200 5ml teaspoons of water to a bottle, Ill bet it wont contain exactly 1000mL of water, because of the inaccuracy of the teaspoon and the way you fill it.

Consider a car that does say 10Km/Litre when travelling at 60km/h (1kM per minute) using a 4 stroke 4 cylinder engine running at 2000rpm. will give 4000 power strokes per minute (psm).

That equates to 100mL of fuel per minute so that means 100mL/4000psm = 0.025ml per power stroke. Measuring that small amount accurately so frequently is bound to introduce errors which will be multiplied up by the number of samples used.

Its horses for courses, and the OBC output should be considered a guide rather than an absolute measure.
 
Aug 11, 2010
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hi prof, good post and .interestingly answers some of the things ive wondered about.. could i add to that.
. the mile omete readings accuracy for 1 will indeed effect any manual or obc reading accuracy for mpg even if its from only the point of the tyres themselves, which even when new can have a plus or minus size difference of up to 1.5% between different makes for any given size and of course as they wear down there rolling circumference will become smaller too . which will all effect the accuracy of any so called mpg figures.. made even more difficult for me at least when trying to compare one car against another. for starters even driving the same route [across Europe] i have found the mile ometer readings between the differing cars i have used to be as much as 50 miles in difference over a 900 mile m/way route! between 5 different makes of cars which is what over 5% difference! strange, well it is to me on a 200 mile slower scenic route i have used the difference was only 5 miles 2.5%.. and of course i have no idea how any evaporation of fuel over any given time effects the accuracy of either the obc or manual working out figures. so how can one know that even using the brim to brim method will give you a accurate reading for lets say comparisons between one make of car and another make on a day to day basis..if ones trying to be all scientific about it.....
 
Aug 3, 2014
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Hi All

I tow a Bessacarr Cameo 525 with a Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6 manual. I am getting 23.5 MPG on average. As we are generally new to caravaning I take everything, magnam porch awning, sun canopy, tall awning extension, windscreen and loungers. All kit is issabella and load above with all our clothes in the car to keep weight down in caravan. We also take the shopping with us and load up the fridge and any bottles (wine, gin tonic beer) we place on the floor by the axle.

Guess we could get a better MPG with a lighter load

My wife tends to pack for every occasions!!! So trying to reduce the amount we take down.
 
May 7, 2012
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Just back from a trip to Whitewater Park. Filled the car to the brim before setting off and reset the computer. After 198 miles the car took just under 27 litres at the Morrisons opposite the site. The car showed 33.7 mpg which by my calculations is about right. Coming back I got 31.8 shown but used a different route with more traffic.
 
Jun 30, 2012
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Just changed my car because of this

Last one was a 2.8TD LWB Pajero. Great at towing but around 14mpg with a 1400kg Lunar

Now got a 2006 Mondeo Ghia 2.2 TDCI. Tows effortlessly and around 34mpg towing and just
under 60mpg solo
 
Oct 12, 2013
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Just back from France just shy of 2ooo miles towing I was getting 38mpg back to the north east , mostly motorway and cruise control, 2oo9 toyota verso 2.2T SR and a baileys 450/5 , just under 3.5ton altogether .
 
Aug 9, 2010
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I love these threads re MPG!
My neighbour once had a Honda Jazz that he was convinced did a steady 64mpg because the computer once showed that. Nothing would convince him that it was just at that moment.
We also had a Ford Scorpio V6 that averaged 49.9mpg. Impossible? Not at all: downhill on a trailing throttle its fuel computer showed 99.9mpg. Up the other side flat out it showed 0.06mpg, giving an average of 49.9.
I also have a friend who claims 65mpg towing from a Skoda towing a 1300kg caravan.
Me? Well, my 4.2 Range Rover does between 10 and 13mpg,towing or solo, about which I'm quite pleased, as its on LPG at 65.9ppg.
It does the same on petrol too, so I don't use that too much! It was very economical when it came back from France on a lorry though! ;)
 
Mar 9, 2012
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emmerson said:
I love these threads re MPG!
My neighbour once had a Honda Jazz that he was convinced did a steady 64mpg because the computer once showed that. Nothing would convince him that it was just at that moment.
We also had a Ford Scorpio V6 that averaged 49.9mpg. Impossible? Not at all: downhill on a trailing throttle its fuel computer showed 99.9mpg. Up the other side flat out it showed 0.06mpg, giving an average of 49.9.
I also have a friend who claims 65mpg towing from a Skoda towing a 1300kg caravan.
Me? Well, my 4.2 Range Rover does between 10 and 13mpg,towing or solo, about which I'm quite pleased, as its on LPG at 65.9ppg.
It does the same on petrol too, so I don't use that too much! It was very economical when it came back from France on a lorry though! ;)

Hi emmerson. I also had a Ford Scorpio Ultima 2.3 V6 Auto (Bug Eyed). I also found the Solo mpg was very good for a big automatic. What a fabulous car to drive but a big disappointment when it came to towing - it wouldn't pull you out of bed. and the physically calculated fuel consumption was abysmal. The specified kerbweight was a 'pipe-dream' and I firmly believed that the maximum braked towing limit of 2000kgs was a totally made-up figure.
 
Jan 7, 2007
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Audi Q5 3litre diesel. 39-41mpg solo mainly motorways and 21mpg when towing our twin axle caravan. Quite pleased with that as I have a bit of a heavy right foot!!
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Hello JDB,
I cant help with the MPG, but I don't think you have read the forum etiquette, Using capital letters is considered to be shouting - Sometimes its useful to emphasise an important word but otherwise its considered impolite.
 
Mar 17, 2015
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Audi A7 3.0 BiTDI Quattro - Towing a Sterling Eccles Quartz at 1610kg MTPLM

Urban 34 mpg solo and combined is about 44 mpg solo

When towing I'm averaging around 26mpg. If on the motorway for a while I can get to 28mpg in 8th gear at 60 mph. Car loaded with 2 adults and full tank of fuel and adblue. Boot full of liquids and tools too.

Chris
 

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