Ria or James, my personal opinion for what its worth is that I have no problem having a statue of Mandela. What does concern me though is if there are anymore spare plinths lying around the streets of our capital waiting to be filled. If so don't be surprised to see a statues of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness if these loons are still in power.
Diane, you are the one who claimed that
"we all seem to have a common goal.That is to get rid of the idiot in power and to close our doors on any more imigrants."
well sorry if it offends you, but I absolutely do NOT share that goal. But I see criticising your views some how makes me abusive, that's very 'New Labour' of you.
"we all seem to have a common goal.That is to get rid of the idiot in power and to close our doors on any more imigrants."
well sorry if it offends you, but I absolutely do NOT share that goal. But I see criticising your views some how makes me abusive, that's very 'New Labour' of you.
This is not an agressive response but,
quote " If so don't be surprised to see a statues of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness if these loons are still in power"
I take it by that you would be against a statue of either of these quite brave men who fought against the British Army for occupying their country. Who then had the courage to agree peace, against the will of quite a lot of evil people within the North and South of Ireland, who didn't want peace.
One mans Freedom Fighter is another mans Terrorist.
I would be against the statue being in London, but Londonderry or Belfast is a different matter.
Frank
quote " If so don't be surprised to see a statues of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness if these loons are still in power"
I take it by that you would be against a statue of either of these quite brave men who fought against the British Army for occupying their country. Who then had the courage to agree peace, against the will of quite a lot of evil people within the North and South of Ireland, who didn't want peace.
One mans Freedom Fighter is another mans Terrorist.
I would be against the statue being in London, but Londonderry or Belfast is a different matter.
Frank
Ok, ok I give up, that's just bizarre, you give them money, but think they are idiots who should be removed from power, what else is there to say......
Lord B I respect Mr Mandella's struggles of the past and his leadership of his people and country.
But should we not be celebrating our own leaders and great people. Shakespeare, Brunel, Montgomery, our armed forces the Queen or even the Queen Mother.
A lot of todays youth probably can't understand why some old black man who kissed the Spice Girls and meets Bono gets on a plynth in Trafalgar Square.
Whilst Brown and Livingstone fawn over Nelson, South Africa is still a quite divided nation. People who would like to leave can't as they can't get their money out without great expense and many live in enclaves for security whilst extreme security systems like gas flame throwers are fitted to cars in SA due to security fears.
Surely in Britain we should promote, look up to and support our own home grown people as a priority and then help others.
Ria (James is away supporting "others" in another country !!!! )
But should we not be celebrating our own leaders and great people. Shakespeare, Brunel, Montgomery, our armed forces the Queen or even the Queen Mother.
A lot of todays youth probably can't understand why some old black man who kissed the Spice Girls and meets Bono gets on a plynth in Trafalgar Square.
Whilst Brown and Livingstone fawn over Nelson, South Africa is still a quite divided nation. People who would like to leave can't as they can't get their money out without great expense and many live in enclaves for security whilst extreme security systems like gas flame throwers are fitted to cars in SA due to security fears.
Surely in Britain we should promote, look up to and support our own home grown people as a priority and then help others.
Ria (James is away supporting "others" in another country !!!! )
"their Country" I thought Northern Ireland was the British soldiers country to as did many Northern Irish who disagreed with the murdering associates of Adams and McGuinness.
Ria
That depends Ria,
If you are of the belief that N Ireland is a part of Great Britain, or is just a part of Eire, that it is connected to..
I don't condone what Adams etc did, what I am pointing out is that it took some brave men on ALL sides to stop it. Was Mandela not convicted of trying to set of an IED ????
Frank
Whilst caravanning we met some teachers from Eire who had also spent time teaching in Northern Ireland.
Their veiw was that Eire could not afford Northern Ireland and nor would they want the "NI whingers" of either religeon from there.
Yhey maintained that so much money had been pumped in to NI schools and services because of the troubles that the political squabling had brouaght some of the best services in Europe to the province and compared to anything in Eire or anywhere else in the UK.
Maybe McGuinness and Paisely had another agenda Frank.
Ria
Their veiw was that Eire could not afford Northern Ireland and nor would they want the "NI whingers" of either religeon from there.
Yhey maintained that so much money had been pumped in to NI schools and services because of the troubles that the political squabling had brouaght some of the best services in Europe to the province and compared to anything in Eire or anywhere else in the UK.
Maybe McGuinness and Paisely had another agenda Frank.
Ria
I find it a strange world Ria. I posted the other day that it's my belief that now Northern Ireland should be united with Eire but it will never happen as long as there are sectarian bigots. I find it strange that thousands from Scotland go to Northern Ireland waving Union flags while at home they are wanting independence and self government.
I find it strange that in Northern Ireland there is this segregation (apartheid Colin A, please note) based on sectarian differences when here at home I haven't a clue whether my neighbour is protestant or catholic and neither do I care.
I find it strange that the same thing is happening in my country, only on a Christian/Muslim divide, and we cannot do a thing about it whilst our elected leaders whistle tunes through their ar$e$ tell us how good it is for all.
I find it strange that in Northern Ireland there is this segregation (apartheid Colin A, please note) based on sectarian differences when here at home I haven't a clue whether my neighbour is protestant or catholic and neither do I care.
I find it strange that the same thing is happening in my country, only on a Christian/Muslim divide, and we cannot do a thing about it whilst our elected leaders whistle tunes through their ar$e$ tell us how good it is for all.
quote " find it a strange world Ria. I posted the other day that it's my belief that now Northern Ireland should be united with Eire but it will never happen as long as there are sectarian bigots.
A lot of the secretarian stuff is banter rather than pure evil. You need to be able to sort out in your own mind what is what !!!
The EU looks to be the way forward to stop this bickering between states.
Frank
A lot of the secretarian stuff is banter rather than pure evil. You need to be able to sort out in your own mind what is what !!!
The EU looks to be the way forward to stop this bickering between states.
Frank
Parksy
Moderator
I have absolutely no argument with either the Scots, Welsh or Irish. I agree that all should stick together to curb mass immigration into the United Kingdom. That is not what this thread was about though, was it?
The way I understand it the thread was about injustices being inflicted on the people of England by our unelected Scottish overlord.
I will try to make this as clear as I can.
The nationality of Gordon Brown is totally irrelevant.
He has been elected, as a member of Parliament.
Because no one in the Labour Party stood against him there was no need for him to be 'elected' Prime Minister. I have absolutely no problem with that.
If the majority of the British electorate don't like either him or what he and his party does they will replace them at the next general election, so no problems there either.
The Scots, Welsh and Irish people decided through the ballot box to accept devolved Govenment, as is their right.
Again I have absolutely no problem at all with that, in fact I dont blame them, especially the Scots.
I dont know wether Scots,Irish or Welsh people feel that injustice has been inflicted upon them because I dont live there.
I have merely stated that a sense of injustice prevails in England because I hear about it all the time as I go about my daily business.
A type of apartheid certainly exists in the part of Great Britain that I live in, namely the middle of England, because again I see it on an almost daily basis.
Because I have commented on these issues as an Englishman, the only way that I am qualified to comment this does not mean that I have any quarrel with either Scots, Irish or Welsh people. The apartheid that exists that I witness does not always involve white people, and is not always initiated by the indigenous population of this country.
Many English people feel like second class citizens here. I've no doubt that Scots, Irish and Welsh people have been treated as second class citizens by the Westminster Government, which is possibly why they opted for devolution.
This option is not open for people in England.
The way I understand it the thread was about injustices being inflicted on the people of England by our unelected Scottish overlord.
I will try to make this as clear as I can.
The nationality of Gordon Brown is totally irrelevant.
He has been elected, as a member of Parliament.
Because no one in the Labour Party stood against him there was no need for him to be 'elected' Prime Minister. I have absolutely no problem with that.
If the majority of the British electorate don't like either him or what he and his party does they will replace them at the next general election, so no problems there either.
The Scots, Welsh and Irish people decided through the ballot box to accept devolved Govenment, as is their right.
Again I have absolutely no problem at all with that, in fact I dont blame them, especially the Scots.
I dont know wether Scots,Irish or Welsh people feel that injustice has been inflicted upon them because I dont live there.
I have merely stated that a sense of injustice prevails in England because I hear about it all the time as I go about my daily business.
A type of apartheid certainly exists in the part of Great Britain that I live in, namely the middle of England, because again I see it on an almost daily basis.
Because I have commented on these issues as an Englishman, the only way that I am qualified to comment this does not mean that I have any quarrel with either Scots, Irish or Welsh people. The apartheid that exists that I witness does not always involve white people, and is not always initiated by the indigenous population of this country.
Many English people feel like second class citizens here. I've no doubt that Scots, Irish and Welsh people have been treated as second class citizens by the Westminster Government, which is possibly why they opted for devolution.
This option is not open for people in England.
I must be very stupid, because I just don't get this, I am A Scot, living in England, living in the very middle of England, I live in what is technically an inner city area, of the 10 houses either side of me, only one and half of them are occupied by white people, there is a mosque on the next street, the secondary school across the road is about 95% non-white, the primary school at the bottom of the street is more like 99% non-white, the catholic primary school at the other end of the street (the one my children go to) is about 80-85% white (but it's catchment area is massive and it was more like 95% white 5yrs ago), 3/4 of the people living in the street seems to drive a cab, there is a constant stream f women dressed head to toe in black, basically it's about as non-white as you can get, but I still don't feel like a 'second class citizen', exactly what is it that makes you feel 'second class' what do you think you are being denied?
Steve and Cal quote "This option is not open for people in England"
My earlier post " So at the last count, the MPs from England had a very large majority. The Scots and Welsh, and N Irish are in a minority. Even when you add them all together they can not out vote the English.
So what are you looking for ? an Independant England ? It is all perception because the English MPs don't want to remove the tolls on the Humber Bridge or the Tunnel tolls etc and the SNP do in Scotland .
Why do you then go on to think in England you are second class citizens ??.
I must admit I am with George on this, WHAT DO YOU WANT ???
Frank
My earlier post " So at the last count, the MPs from England had a very large majority. The Scots and Welsh, and N Irish are in a minority. Even when you add them all together they can not out vote the English.
So what are you looking for ? an Independant England ? It is all perception because the English MPs don't want to remove the tolls on the Humber Bridge or the Tunnel tolls etc and the SNP do in Scotland .
Why do you then go on to think in England you are second class citizens ??.
I must admit I am with George on this, WHAT DO YOU WANT ???
Frank
Now I can understand why George doesn't come over as a happy bunny in his postings. Don't worry though George, your culture is being taken care of north of the border (for the time being anyway), it's not yet getting swamped as ours is as you have noticed. Just a thought George, wouldn't it be better to sell up and move to Islamabad, at least the housings cheaper there and you might have enough to buy a whole street. Another plus is the sunshine. Just think, with the money you get for your caravan you will be able to buy a camel caravan and go sight seeing in Kashmir ;O)
Actually I am perfectly happy thanks, don't know why you think I'm not? I thought it was you and Diane that were the unhappy ones or have I misunderstood something here?
It was a tongue in cheek post George ;O) but as far as the figures you have posted I couldn't have done a better job myself of why we are losing our culture and identity, can you not see it?
Parksy
Moderator
I want a complete end to mass immigration for a start. An end to multi culturalism wouldn't be too bad either. Then anyone who did come to live here in England would either fit in to our way of doing things or leave. I wouldn't mind seeing an end to the bias in favour of immigration by the BBC so that thir pro Arab stance in all of their news reports would end. When it comes to housing the interests of asylum seekers and other flotsam from the Balkans, Somalia, Kurdistan and Afghanistan always take precedence over people who were born here, and whose forbears have worked fought and sometimes died for this country. I want English people, and indeed all who live in the British Isles to be able to express any view that they hold without looking over their shoulders in fear of their jobs if they are overheard by the wrong person.So yes, I do sometimes feel like a second class citizen here, and I also want independence, not from the Scots, Irish or the dear old Welsh but from the PC thought police and Human Rights brigade and the 'elf and safety lot as well while I'm at it
Yes of course I realised you weren't being serious, but I still don't accept your argument, the area I live in was, 20 yrs ago, mostly Irish (Catholic), a large % of the parents at the school my children go to still have strong Irish accents, over the last 10yrs, it has moved to being asian muslim (officially 35% non-white), but already the demographics look like there shifting again, the first Polish shop has just opened, the real point is, what does it matter. There are very few 'indigenous' people, we're all Roman/Viking/Norman/Celtic/Irish.... what difference does it make, what are you afraid of?
I posted recently about Somali's coming to this country and why is it so easy for them to get in. Last week it was answered by immigration officials to the press. Apparently they are given Dutch citizenship and once that's happened they are free to go where they choose, hence they come to *Handout England*.
What I find sad Steve is they let the scum of the earth in under all kinds of pretences but the Gurkhas, who show loyalty to this country, are made to fight for every penny they can get after retirement.
What I find sad Steve is they let the scum of the earth in under all kinds of pretences but the Gurkhas, who show loyalty to this country, are made to fight for every penny they can get after retirement.
Steve,
I can understand your wish list BUT it won't happen. We have signed up to the EU. Indians and Pakistani people are here, they are not going to go back. I also understand the bit about expressing anything you want, BUT that won't happen either. Can you imagine the mayhem if we all went round saying what we wanted to. I am afraid your wish list is a recipe for Civil War.
Frank
I can understand your wish list BUT it won't happen. We have signed up to the EU. Indians and Pakistani people are here, they are not going to go back. I also understand the bit about expressing anything you want, BUT that won't happen either. Can you imagine the mayhem if we all went round saying what we wanted to. I am afraid your wish list is a recipe for Civil War.
Frank
First off I agree with you totally on the treatment of Gurkhas, a disgrace.
But as for 'handout Britain' I don't buy that, economic migrants don't come here for handouts, they come because they can make money here, mostly due to our appalling labour laws, and by the fact that your average 'outraged Brit' would sooner employ a cheap gang of Polish builders, than pay the money asked by your regular (Irish) builders, and because you average unemployed Brit isn't prepared to do the jobs these 'immigrants' will take. Given the chance of settling anywhere else in Europe, why on Earth would they come to this over-priced, over-crowded, miserable country, simple, your average Brit will go out of his way to save money, so there's always plenty work for someone who is 'cheap'.
But as for 'handout Britain' I don't buy that, economic migrants don't come here for handouts, they come because they can make money here, mostly due to our appalling labour laws, and by the fact that your average 'outraged Brit' would sooner employ a cheap gang of Polish builders, than pay the money asked by your regular (Irish) builders, and because you average unemployed Brit isn't prepared to do the jobs these 'immigrants' will take. Given the chance of settling anywhere else in Europe, why on Earth would they come to this over-priced, over-crowded, miserable country, simple, your average Brit will go out of his way to save money, so there's always plenty work for someone who is 'cheap'.
Parksy
Moderator
If i' d have wanted my culture, and my way of life and my local community to be overrun by cultures alien to everything that I was brought up to believe in, so that areas where I could go to freely in my childhood and youth became no go areas if one happens to be white I'd have asked for it.
No one asked me or anyone that I know if I would like to live in a multi cultural society. We now have the ludicrous situation where people who have sought shelter under false pretences in this country and are dedicated to the overthrow of Western society are allowed to live amongst us and even if convicted of criminal activity we cannot deport them from whence they came. The more that people like myself are kept quiet and are not allowed to air their views for fear of being branded racist and all the rest of it the greater the foothold terrorists and other undesirables will gain here. That is what I am afraid of
No one asked me or anyone that I know if I would like to live in a multi cultural society. We now have the ludicrous situation where people who have sought shelter under false pretences in this country and are dedicated to the overthrow of Western society are allowed to live amongst us and even if convicted of criminal activity we cannot deport them from whence they came. The more that people like myself are kept quiet and are not allowed to air their views for fear of being branded racist and all the rest of it the greater the foothold terrorists and other undesirables will gain here. That is what I am afraid of
*why on Earth would they come to this over-priced, over-crowded, miserable country*
You know what they say George, plenty of room in Pakistan :O)
Looks like your to late Steve,
You really need to relax, or join the BNP
Braykewynd could be your agent when you stand in the next General Election, that's not an aggressive reply it's just an observation on your remarks.
Australia/NZ are about the only countries left, maybe the USA and Canada but only just.
Frank
You really need to relax, or join the BNP
Braykewynd could be your agent when you stand in the next General Election, that's not an aggressive reply it's just an observation on your remarks.
Australia/NZ are about the only countries left, maybe the USA and Canada but only just.
Frank
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