Let's hear it for the 4x4?

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Jul 31, 2010
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I do not see snow chains as a practical solution to the problem of driving in the snow in this country.

In most cases, the affected roads are usually fairly short runs before you join a road that has been cleared. They are a real pain to fit and remove, and bloody dangerous, if they are not removed before driving on a solid surface for even a small amount of time, they damage the road surface and the tyres if used outside very narrow parameters. Most continentals prefer proper studded winter tyres.

Steve W
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Apart from Scandinavian countries that have a blanket of snow throughout the winter, studded tyres are illegal in Europe beacuse they cause serious damage to the road surface when there is no snow or ice. On the other hand, several countries require winter tyres to be fitted. These are made from a softer rubber compound than normal summer tyres.
 
Aug 10, 2008
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Clockwork, Excellent choice of car, or rather make of car. BMW being the leaders in the field when it comes to efficiency.

I believe one of there X3 actually has a co2 of under 200, which is pretty good,for a big car,with 4x4 drive but compared to a normal average modern diesel car,not that good
 
Dec 1, 2008
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Lets face it its not the vehicle although some are more capable than others. Its the driver and their actual ability rather than their perceived ability and there's a large gap between the two. From time to time we may all need the help of each other what ever the weather what ever the reason.
 
Dec 23, 2008
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"I believe one of there X3 actually has a co2 of under 200, which is pretty good,for a big car,with 4x4 drive but compared to a normal average modern diesel car,not that good"

g, I don't give a fig about co2. Many mummys running kiddly wrinkles back and forth to skool pump out more nasties than my baby annualy.

co2. piffle !
 
Aug 10, 2008
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"I don't give a fig about co2. Many mummys running kiddly wrinkles back and forth to skool pump out more nasties than my baby annualy."

You never know that might actually be true, but then not all mummies drive old shoguns and range rovers. Quite a few drive normal cars that pump out even less nasties than you do!!!!*
 
Dec 23, 2008
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Mumsy jumping in 'ecorunabout little woman chariot' is still pumping out more co2 on short cold running, she doesn't have to be in a shogun or rr.

"What" "Where" "When" and "How - you drive are major contributing factors of mpg and output.

As I peddle down the hill for a paper, 2 litre milk container or to JS for our weekly food supplies, I'm far more eco friendly than my Toyota Pious neighbors or those on the school run {:) or those driving to the gym to keep fit.

I have no idea as to what my car is rated at and nor do I care.
 
Aug 10, 2008
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Who told you all that mumbo jumbo, clockwork!If you don't even know what your own cars CO2 is,and its importance! Then how on earth can you make such a silly claim!

By the way a Toyota pyrus being driven as it should!would be well out of your reach MPG wise! So I don't know where you get your facts from,but they do not ad up... sorry
 
Dec 23, 2008
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece
Cold engines use more fuel and produce more co2, that's is why you are advised not to do short runs!

Cars that are kept outside take longer to heat up and use more fuel than our garaged cars.

Latest BMWs have temperature controlled engine bay vents to aid engines getting to optimal operating temperature quicker.

Mumsy's run about will not tow my caravan and is no fun to drive.

We could be inconsiderate by your terms g, we walked or cycled to school with our children when locals here and elsewhere drive the short distances.

Are Mrs C and I expected to give up everything for some fairy eco babble as others pretend to be eco saviours and then jump in their eco car for a 5 minute walking time trip to the local offy for a bottle of eco friendly Aussie Chardonnay after a busy day ferrying kidly wrinkles about.

I'm retired. I was an Auto industry test driver testing new cars for many manufacturers.

And I even managed to pick up a few things avout cars, driving and economy over thirty years of pounding test ground tracks.
 
Jan 14, 2009
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Everytime I read a magazine this 4x4 thing keeps on cropping up - I have had many many different types of cars over the 36 years that I have been on the road, from Mini's to Sports Cars to Big Saloons (last was a Volvo S80)and regularly do 30,000 miles a year - I bought a new Jeep Grand Cherokee last year - Its flipping great ! I sit high, get a better view, and feel safer, it also allows me to have bought a nice big T/A caravan and our two dogs have a nice space of their own.

My point is I have worked and saved all my life to be able to afford the little luxuries - what right does a government have to say "You can't have it" (its ok for them though) - as for polluting the planet a)I am really paying for the privalige (
 
Feb 6, 2009
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Everytime I read a magazine this 4x4 thing keeps on cropping up - I have had many many different types of cars over the 36 years that I have been on the road, from Mini's to Sports Cars to Big Saloons (last was a Volvo S80)and regularly do 30,000 miles a year - I bought a new Jeep Grand Cherokee last year - Its flipping great ! I sit high, get a better view, and feel safer, it also allows me to have bought a nice big T/A caravan and our two dogs have a nice space of their own.

My point is I have worked and saved all my life to be able to afford the little luxuries - what right does a government have to say "You can't have it" (its ok for them though) - as for polluting the planet a)I am really paying for the privalige (
 
Jun 28, 2007
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Well said Jonathan.

At the end of the day I have a democratic choice as to what I spend my money on and my car is my luxury.

I choose a 4x4 , not becuase its snows a couple of days a year but because it does a job I need it to do 365 days year. Thats transport me and my family in safety and comfort. I pays my dues to own and run it.

And if I'm being very blunt my car came from Coventry and probably took a couple of hours on a transporter to get to the dealer. Not 3 months on a ship , from Japan or Korea , pumping out untold clouds of Co2 - now who takes that into account when they bang the eco drum?
 
Jan 14, 2009
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Thanks for the support - just read an item (which shall remain nameless) saying "there are alternatives to 4 x 4's - how about an E Class Mercedes Estate to tow with)- Funny because I understand that my Jeeps engine is a Mercedes V6 CRD - so how do I pollute more ?
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Jonathan

You pollute more due to poorer aerodynamics, increased weight, and perhaps different gearing.

I dont understand why you feel the need to defend you tow car choice?
 
Nov 2, 2008
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I remember watching the news last year, and Gordon Brown got out of a top of the range, Range Rover with his Wife. Who pays for that? Anyway, I love my Jeep Cherokee 2.8 CRD Limited Auto, I use it to pull my t/a.
 
Jan 14, 2009
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Hi,

I am not actually defending my choice - I am actually delirously happy with it - just seems that others always wish to knock the choice !

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers - dont quite follow your argument about aerodynamics, weight etc - my boss runs a DB9 - great aerodynamics, less weight, and drinks fuel at twice the rate of my car - plus has much higher emissions.

I do accept that a smaller engine will use less of our planets resources but taking that argument to its logical conclusion none of us would be towing at all.

Actually apologies to all this is drifting off the original post !

Jon
 
Aug 10, 2008
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"http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece

Cold engines use more fuel and produce more co2, that's is why you are advised not to do short runs!

Cars that are kept outside take longer to heat up and use more fuel than our garaged cars.

Latest BMWs have temperature controlled engine bay vents to aid engines getting to optimal operating temperature quicker.

Mumsy's run about will not tow my caravan and is no fun to drive.

We could be inconsiderate by your terms g, we walked or cycled to school with our children when locals here and elsewhere drive the short distances.

Are Mrs C and I expected to give up everything for some fairy eco babble as others pretend to be eco saviours and then jump in their eco car for a 5 minute walking time trip to the local offy for a bottle of eco friendly Aussie Chardonnay after a busy day ferrying kidly wrinkles about.

I'm retired. I was an Auto industry test driver testing new cars for many manufacturers.

And I even managed to pick up a few things avout cars, driving and economy over thirty years of pounding test ground tracks."

You would think actually knowing all this, instead of generalising without putting any figures in! you would understand what you are actually saying!

But alas, that's not the case, Yes cold engines, do pollute more,and also use more fuel, indeed petrol engined cars are worse as they run enrichment cycles, which richen up the modern petrol car fuel delievery by upto 20%. Diesel in theory do not use a choke device although again modern ones will en richen slightly by a very few %.

But you don't do figures do you! so you come up with generalised statements, that have no foundation. For instance you car is less polluting than the school run driver!So you assume that all cars pollute the same, and being as you keep yours a few degrees warming you are less poluting. Poppy ****. You car at best produces 200g/m of C02 on average, this is matched by worse MPG, than say a Fiat puto 16v [ old say 2000 model] that nicely fits in with the old banger mentallity. It produces 142 CO2 g/km.

Even when cold and being en richened by 20%, that still makes it average CO2 figure 170! still a far better figure than your at best! And just remember that's a petrol car, lets not get on to normal diesel cars.

Now nobody has criticised you for what you drive,nobody has had a go at you because you drive a 4x4, so lets not get into that one.

The only gripe I have is when for whatever reason you started claiming your 4X4 car was better than the normal school run car on mpg, based on absolutely no physical provable facts.Indeed you made the point of meaning small cars, as well as large car i mentioned. Although you must see the funny, as you printed "my 4x4" statement, because you were actually talking about it whilst it was in 2wd mode, Indeed all switch able 4x4 Co2 figures are based on 2wd, and not 4wd, otherwise the figures would be a good 15% worse.

Enjoy your X3 apparently they are good cars...
 
Aug 10, 2008
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Hi,

I am not actually defending my choice - I am actually delirously happy with it - just seems that others always wish to knock the choice !

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers - dont quite follow your argument about aerodynamics, weight etc - my boss runs a DB9 - great aerodynamics, less weight, and drinks fuel at twice the rate of my car - plus has much higher emissions.

I do accept that a smaller engine will use less of our planets resources but taking that argument to its logical conclusion none of us would be towing at all.

Actually apologies to all this is drifting off the original post !

Jon
They used to tow with mk1 ford escorts, with 1300cc engines,but alas the average caravan have got so much heavier, then those of 30 years ago, which means we also need heavier cars.
 
Dec 23, 2008
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No doubt I risk the wrath of Steve.

But in my life I have always had the right of reply when somebody has got something wrong.

NO WHERE HAVE I SAID THAT MY CAR PRODUCES LESS co2

I was pointing out that "finger pointers" on the street pick on cars such as mine with no consideration as to how the car is used.

I've chosen the car that suits me and the way I want to lead my life. As my car sits in my garage most of the time and is not used for cold un-economic running if any damage is caused by co2 I'm doing less damage per year than many of the so called eco family runabouts as my car does not get used for local short running or need less journeys.

Sorry again Moderator Steve but on principal I'm not prepared to allow another member to twist what I've said.
 

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