Lithium Ion batteries again

[ProfJohnL]

Maybe what Roger meant is if there are a number of HGVs recharging, the charging cables may not be able to handles the extra current and may shut down one or tow of the supply points? I am only guessing so open to learning.

I don't see how you can draw that conclusio from Rogers posting... But if that was the case then the designers of the charging installation got their sums very wrong. In normal electrical supply terms your describing a process called diversity planning where the theoritical cpacity of the outlets on a circuit can be allowed to exceed the incomming supply, because of the improbability of all the outlets being fully load and in use at the same time.

The purpose of a charging station is to charge an unknown number of vehicles, so the diversity probability has to be considered as =1 so the total capacity of the chargers should not exceed the capability of the incomming supply or bulk storage soltion.

 

[RogerL]

Whilst demand for petrol will drop considerably, demand for diesel will remain high due to the vast amounts used by HGVs - which will eventually be supplanted by EV HGVs but that development is decades behind cars.

What I meant was that diesel fuel refining and supply will remain essentially unchanged as diesel cars are replaced by EVs because the bulk of diesel use is for HGVs and non-road use.

Eventually HGVs may go electric but their development is way behind EV cars.

 

[GUMPY]

Eventually HGVs may go electric but their development is way behind EV cars.

I thought Elon had a big beautiful electric HGV 🤔

 

[RogerL]

I thought Elon had a big beautiful electric HGV 🤔

On back to back tests that they've done, it's only viable with light loads - no surprise there.

 

[Tobes]

On back to back tests that they've done, it's only viable with light loads - no surprise there.

Though there are other manufacturers who are quietly getting on with doing it.
For example, Volvo Trucks. https://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/n...with-5-000-electric-trucks-sold-worldwid.html

 

[otherclive]

Wiltshire Council has a Volvo electric recycling lorry under trials around the county.

Electric rubbish truck begins trial in rural areas of Wiltshire

A new electric bin lorry trial hopes to benefit the environment and the council coffers.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[RogerL]

Wiltshire Council has a Volvo electric recycling lorry under trials around the county.

Electric rubbish truck begins trial in rural areas of Wiltshire

A new electric bin lorry trial hopes to benefit the environment and the council coffers.

www.bbc.co.uk

Several authorities have been trialling electric bin lorries - with mixed results.

 

[otherclive]

Several authorities have been trialling electric bin lorries - with mixed results.

That’s encouraging and no surprise wrt mixed results as one size is unlikely to fit all. That’s why the trials are useful and provide good feedback to the manufacturers.

 

[ProfJohnL]

That’s encouraging and no surprise wrt mixed results as one size is unlikely to fit all. That’s why the trials are useful and provide good feedback to the manufacturers.

The same is happening with busses, and space travel. New technology takes time to be developed, and bed in, and it doesn't always go smoothly. If only we all had countless Billions that we could throw at a project like Space X, more realistically we historically take a far more measured approach which takes longer, but also produces less public fails, or as Musk puts it learning opportunities.

 

[Buckman]

What is even weirder about cars with batteries whether hybrid or full EV that the Euro NCAP has decided that cars are too heavy and pose a risk =to life in a head on collision with Polestar 2 rated as one of the worst? I wonder if anyone has informed them that batteries will always be heavy and the car's structure needs to take that into account hence cars being on average about 100 kg heavier than older cars. Obviously they were not around in the fifties and sixties!

 

[Tobes]

What is even weirder about cars with batteries whether hybrid or full EV that the Euro NCAP has decided that cars are too heavy and pose a risk =to life in a head on collision with Polestar rated as one of the worst? I wonder if anyone has informed them that batteries will always be heavy and the car's structure needs to take that into account hence cars being on average about 100 kg heavier than older cars. Obviously they were not around in the fifties and sixties!

I would be interested to know where that statistic comes from? The Polestar 3 just qualified for a 5 star NCAP rating, and was not the lowest for vulnerable road users.

With a five-star rating the Polestar 3 sets a new standard for child safety | Euro NCAP

With more choice coming from new, electrically powered SUVs, Euro NCAP’s five-star safety rating system helps consumers compare vehicles more easily and identify the safest choice

www.euroncap.com

 

[otherclive]

I would be interested to know where that statistic comes from? The Polestar 3 just qualified for a 5 star NCAP rating, and was not the lowest for vulnerable road users.

With a five-star rating the Polestar 3 sets a new standard for child safety | Euro NCAP

With more choice coming from new, electrically powered SUVs, Euro NCAP’s five-star safety rating system helps consumers compare vehicles more easily and identify the safest choice

www.euroncap.com

Encouraging that the Chinese makes are doing well also.

 

[Buckman]

I would be interested to know where that statistic comes from? The Polestar 3 just qualified for a 5 star NCAP rating, and was not the lowest for vulnerable road users.

With a five-star rating the Polestar 3 sets a new standard for child safety | Euro NCAP

With more choice coming from new, electrically powered SUVs, Euro NCAP’s five-star safety rating system helps consumers compare vehicles more easily and identify the safest choice

www.euroncap.com

My mistake as should have added the Polestar 2. However my post was really aimed at the EU NCAP stating heavier cars are an issue and pose a danger in ahead on collision at 65mph, but it is the EU insisting on EVs and hybrids with heavy batteries.

 

[RogerL]

What is even weirder about cars with batteries whether hybrid or full EV that the Euro NCAP has decided that cars are too heavy and pose a risk =to life in a head on collision with Polestar 2 rated as one of the worst? I wonder if anyone has informed them that batteries will always be heavy and the car's structure needs to take that into account hence cars being on average about 100 kg heavier than older cars. Obviously they were not around in the fifties and sixties!

The extra weight will cause more damage to other vehicles - hopefully the EV's structure will take the extra weight into account for it's own damage limitation.

 

[Buckman]

The extra weight will cause more damage to other vehicles - hopefully the EV's structure will take the extra weight into account for it's own damage limitation.

I don't think that they are thinking about damage to cars, but more so to human beings whether pedestrian or vehicle occupant.

 

[Tobes]

My mistake as should have added the Polestar 2. However my post was really aimed at the EU NCAP stating heavier cars are an issue and pose a danger in ahead on collision at 65mph, but it is the EU insisting on EVs and hybrids with heavy batteries.

Interesting. The Polestar 2 was also awarded a 5 star certificate with an even higher rating for vulnerable road users.

Official Polestar 2 2021 safety rating

Euro NCAP safety rating of the Polestar 2 2021: detailed results, crash test pictures, videos and comments from experts

www.euroncap.com

My LRDM model has a kerb weight of 2,173kg. Out of interest I looked at a Lexus RX hybrid for comparison. It too gets the 5 star rating, and scores even higher for vulnerable road users. The test vehicle had a slightly lower kerb weight of 2,124kg (one small person less, less than 3% difference). Google shows a range of weights from 1965kg to 2240kg

Official Lexus RX 2022 safety rating

Euro NCAP safety rating of the Lexus RX 2022: detailed results, crash test pictures, videos and comments from experts

www.euroncap.com

Of course, there are lots of light weight EVs too. My parents just bought a used VW eUP! with a kerb weight of 1214kg. However - that only has an NCAP rating of 3 stars, and scores just 46% for Vulnerable road users.

Official VW up! 2019 safety rating

Euro NCAP safety rating of the VW up! 2019: detailed results, crash test pictures, videos and comments from experts

www.euroncap.com

Its clearly not all about weight, but what you do with it...

 

[ProfJohnL]

Put any pedestrian in front of any car traveling at 65 mph, and I'm pretty certain it's "bye bye pedestrian" regardless of the weight of the car.

So I think this new diversion from the discussion is pointless and irrelevant.