Either way the maximum braked trailer weight of the car cannot be exceeded. If the car's maximum braked weight is 1600kg and the caravan's MTPLM is plated 1600kg this does not mean you can tow a caravan with a MTPLM of 1600kg where the axle load is 1600kg and the towball weight is 100kg making the outfit weigh all together 1700kg! Lutz seems to be implying that you can legally do this.
All the law says about noseweight is that it must be at least 25kg or 4% of the actual weight of the trailer and no more than the lower of the two limits specified for car and trailer, respectively. The fact that some caravans come off the production line with noseweights of 100kg doesn't necessarily imply that they were deliberately designed to be towed with such a high noseweight.Royston said:
No, I'm not implying that at all. How can the axle load be 1600kg when the MTPLM is 1600kg? Only if the noseweight is zero. But if the noseweight is 100kg, then the axle load must not exceed 1500kg, in words, fifteenhundred kilogrammes. In the case in question you would not be legally able to make full use of the maximum braked trailer weight, as specified for the car.
No Lutz, the caravan static on the weigh bridge as in jockey wheel to ground not coupled to the car, the figures quoted are not pulled out of thin air, but are the formula for all motor cars to establish there gross train weight.IE GTW - GVW = MAXIMUM TRAILER WEIGHT.Lutz said:I still maintain that the way Volvo have phrased the text in the handbook can lead to misunderstanding. It got me confused at first, too, hence the reason for writing.cookieones said:Two days ago Lutz you wrote to Volvo to tell them there handbook was wrong, and now you are saying that they have not made an error in there handbook. So why have you written a letter?
For the last time, The gross Train weight for my Volvo is 3960kg that is car + trailer as stipulated in there handbook and on there vin plate and arrived at using the formula that is quoted from the department of transport, so with all four wheels of the car on the weighbridge + the caravan wheels ( as many as you like ) the gross weight must not exceed 3960. Remove the car from the weighbridge, and the gross weight of the caravan must not exceed 1800kg, put the car on the weighbrige without caravan and the gross weight of the car must not exceed 2160kg.
2160 (car) + 1800 (caravan) = 3960 that is the maximum allowed train weight as shown on the vehicle vin plate!
As previously stated and you agreed with, my method ensures I am 100% on the right side of the law, and I also advised that it would be best if we both agreed to disagree, I understand your reasoning but on a personal preference I would not choose to use them, each to there own hey Lutz
So as Damian has suggested lets call a close to a topic that has been well and truly discussed.
You say you take the car plus caravan on a weighbridge and measure 3960kg. Fair enough. Then you drive the car off the weightbridge, but leaving it hitched up to the caravan. Obviously, you are then measuring only the axle load of the caravan. Alternatively, if you unhitch the caravan and leave only the caravan on the weighbridge, the car will be lighter by the amount of the noseweight that was originally acting on the towbar before the caravan was unhitched. The car on its own will then no longer weigh what it did on the weighbridge. It will be lighter than its maximum GVW of 2160kg. Conversely, if the car already weighs 2160kg and you then attach the caravan, the car will be overloaded by the amount of the noseweight.
Either way works so long as you deduct the noseweight once:
(GVW - noseweight) + MTPLM = Gross Train Weight
or
GVW + axle load of caravan (i.e. MTPLM - noseweight) = Gross Train Weight
I agree that if you add the ball pressure to the GVW of the car, it will then be overloaded in my case by 75kg,but transfer it back to the trailer, then the trailer in it`s static state then becomes overloaded by the same 75kg, but it meets the legal requirement when in GTW state when weighed as a coupled unit, as per the formula quoted by the Department of Transport, there wording not mine.
It`s been a very interesting debate Lutz, but I feel sure that we can now both put this to bed for once and for all, and I look forward to thrashing out another topic with you soon.
Kind regards Allan,
Once again, GTW - GVW = maximum trailer axle load, NOT maximum trailer weight. It's about time that became clear.cookieones said:
When the caravan is uncoupled from the car you say, quote, "the trailer in it`s static state then becomes overloaded by the same 75kg". If it's overloaded then it's exceeding the MTPLM, making it illegal, whatever the gross train weight is. I'm afraid you've shot yourself in the leg there.
Hello Cookieones,
It seems you don't share the same understanding of the logic of the mechanisms in play here. They have been extensively explained in a variety of ways by different contributors, yet you seem unable or unwilling to appreciate the basic physical principles at work here.
The one consolation I have about this is that the method you use whilst it is wrong, it will at least always bring you in under the allowable limits.
Of course I have to point to my own liability warning at the bottom of my posts, and I urge you to seek the opinion of a professional if you need to satisfy any further curiosity you may have about the subject.
It seems you don't share the same understanding of the logic of the mechanisms in play here. They have been extensively explained in a variety of ways by different contributors, yet you seem unable or unwilling to appreciate the basic physical principles at work here.
The one consolation I have about this is that the method you use whilst it is wrong, it will at least always bring you in under the allowable limits.
Of course I have to point to my own liability warning at the bottom of my posts, and I urge you to seek the opinion of a professional if you need to satisfy any further curiosity you may have about the subject.
From reading through this topic there are obviously differences of opinion on the interpretation of the wording of vehicle handbooks with regard to legal towing weights.
Forum users must decide for themselves which advice they wish to follow to ensure that they tow within the limits set.
Unfortunately this topic has become one of those discussions which rumble on with no clear cut outcome and the more comments that are added the more confusing the topic becomes.
Thanks to everyone who has participated, the points of view have been genuinely held and offered but it's time now to close this topic to prevent it from continuing to go round in circles.
Forum users must decide for themselves which advice they wish to follow to ensure that they tow within the limits set.
Unfortunately this topic has become one of those discussions which rumble on with no clear cut outcome and the more comments that are added the more confusing the topic becomes.
Thanks to everyone who has participated, the points of view have been genuinely held and offered but it's time now to close this topic to prevent it from continuing to go round in circles.
Hello prof John, this is the thread I was referring to, in this post I am Cookieones, and as you can see from my replies, I edge on the side of caution.
But I must admit that it is a long and grey post.
Regards, Allan.
But I must admit that it is a long and grey post.
Regards, Allan.
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