It great to see your finding it all manageable - except narrow lanes - that's part of the learning curve.
Perhaps you might tell us how the forum may have helped you?
Perhaps you might tell us how the forum may have helped you?
I know what you mean about a more relaxing drive. You're not constantly competing for a space in the outside lanes. I prefer to cruise at 60 where possible, I find being overtaken by artics a bit unnerving. Of course when you want to overtake a particularly slow lorry it takes a more anticipation and planning. On the whole though, I find it quite chilled.
Good to hear although your fuel consumption looks very high. With that car I would hope for something in the mid to high twenties depending on the engine.
My Subaru Outback used to give 18 mpg while towing, it was the non-turbo 2.5 which had max torque up around 4,500 rpm and went on up to 6,500 rpm before the autobox changed gear - my old Vauxhall Senator would only do 14 mpg towing an 800 kg caravan !!!Crikey someone with a car giving worse mpg than mine! Glad it went well.
Thats very optimistic for a petrol car. Ive never achieved near those figures with petrol cars, even when towing lighter caravans. But the quoted figures by the OP are lower than I managed with a Subaru 2.0 150bhp litre non turbo, which were also worse than for the same model Subaru with a 240bhp turbo. The extra torque of the turbo helping to improve fuel consumption, and significantly "enhancing the driving experience" as some may say.
I must be getting old🤪.These days I tend to cruise around 56. Few HGVs pass and I don’t have to pass too many. MPG is better and the extra travel time is negligible. It’s worth noting too Lane one is wider than two and three, giving just a little more room to play with.
Mel
Moderator
I guess it helped overcome my anxiety by getting different point of views. YT videos scarred me, and forum helped me to realise that there is lot of caravan drivers doing 70+ and probably those are 'heros' of those videos.
Also, points of going downhill were good and I took them very seriously.
Now, yesterday I towed from Essex to Devon and had my first snake! I was driving low 50ties, and caravan started to snake. Now, I don't know how seriously was it, but I just let accelerator off and was holding wheel firmly, as first reaction. But quite quickly, some system kicked in - felt like ABS and the car suddenly started breaking to around 40mph. I guess it had to be either van ATC or some towing stabilizer which allegedly my CRV (2013) has. I guess the snake itself had to be caused by a sudden gust as it was gusty yesterday - 15 knots with up to 30 gusts. After this, my focus was on speed - not to exceed 55 mph and searching for gusts by observing trees and bushes on the road side. I also withnessed other caravan snaking - the one that was overtaking me, so was driving 60+ I guess.
Except that, I went too far in very narrow (caravan + 2 ft) lane near camping and had to reverse for like 50 or so yards.
Glad you are OK.
Think it may have been ATC reacting. I use CLs and as you say some have narrow approaches.
The one I use in Norfolk has a B road approach and I have to tuck in, a bit, when cars pass and, when my near side wheel has dropped into a hole the ATC has almost stopped me, must slow down a bit.
.
Think it may have been ATC reacting. I use CLs and as you say some have narrow approaches.
The one I use in Norfolk has a B road approach and I have to tuck in, a bit, when cars pass and, when my near side wheel has dropped into a hole the ATC has almost stopped me, must slow down a bit.
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An experience tells a thousand words. I suspect you felt the Al-ko ATCsystem kick in. Well done observing all the tell tale signs around you like blowing trees etc.
Glad it went well for you, probably the ATC kicking in, thankfully all safe though, and now your reversing skills are coming on , keep on posting.
I pleased that you survived this experience, it will give you a better insight into how the outfit feels and when it might be getting twitchy. But it also tells me that you should review how you load your caravan, becasue to get a snake at those lower speeds strongly suggests the outfit is not stable enough.
You were perhaps fortunate enough to have the ATC and trailer stability programmes in the caravan and car, but fact they had to operate means the outfit must be on the edge.
Good as these systems are, you must not rely on them to make a trailer drivable. They should only be considered to be like seat belts there to catch you when things have gone too far out of control, and should play no part in normal driving.
Do check out the good loading guides to see if you can make your outfit naturally more stable.
You were perhaps fortunate enough to have the ATC and trailer stability programmes in the caravan and car, but fact they had to operate means the outfit must be on the edge.
Good as these systems are, you must not rely on them to make a trailer drivable. They should only be considered to be like seat belts there to catch you when things have gone too far out of control, and should play no part in normal driving.
Do check out the good loading guides to see if you can make your outfit naturally more stable.
Good advice Prof but look at #.33. I think Outdoor guy has listened very carefully and I believe has followed all our loading advice. 🤞🤞
I suspect as a novice his feelings of a snake may be more acute than we are used to if ever. But nevertheless every trip is a new one and loads must be accounted for
I suspect as a novice his feelings of a snake may be more acute than we are used to if ever. But nevertheless every trip is a new one and loads must be accounted for
Thank you for your responses.
@ProfJohnL I loaded the caravan day before. It was around 95kg on the hitch, using Mileco weight. Only thing I added after that was body board Everything was low on the floor.
@Dustydog it could be indeed not serious as I think the systems took over quickly.
@ProfJohnL I loaded the caravan day before. It was around 95kg on the hitch, using Mileco weight. Only thing I added after that was body board
Everything was low on the floor. @Dustydog it could be indeed not serious as I think the systems took over quickly.
I think you got hit by gust of wind rather than bad loading, your posts show that you have got the jist of towing, all seems good.Thank you for your responses.
@ProfJohnL I loaded the caravan day before. It was around 95kg on the hitch, using Mileco weight. Only thing I added after that was body board
@Dustydog it could be indeed not serious as I think the systems took over quickly.
If a gust of wind is enough to excite snaking to the point where the ATC begins to operate on the caravan enough to slow the entire outfit down form the low 50's to 40 mph, strongly suggests the outfit is set up too close to the edge. A gust may cause the outfit to move across the lane but it should not cause an ongoing snake once the gust is past.
It's good to read that post event Outdoorguy is attempting to read the conditions ahead to preempt futre problems.
Given the relatively low onset speed and the continued snake effect causing the ATC to operate to reduce the outfits speed this was not a minor issue, so it's sensible to look at the usual causes of snakes which are usually excess speed, insufficient nose load and or poor load distribution.
Outdoorguy tells us his speed was low 50'smph, His nose load was 95Kg, Both these criteria seem to be reasonable to reduce the possibility of a snake, so why was it so easy for a gust to initiate a snake? The third usual component is load distribution in the caravan.
Outdoorguy tells us he has kept his load low in the caravan which is good, but if that has meant he has had to spread it towards the ends then that is adding to the Yaw inertia which increases the potential for snaking. End loading is generally bad news. The bulk of any load should be added as near to the axle as possible to reduce the Yaw inertia.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWd8ml9mFMo
For that reason I think it is very pertinent for Outdoorguy to review his load distribution in the caravan to reduce any end loading.
It's definitely worth reviewing your loading regime if it make the outfit more resilient to snaking, which will make your towing experiences less stressful.
Good luck.
It's good to read that post event Outdoorguy is attempting to read the conditions ahead to preempt futre problems.
Given the relatively low onset speed and the continued snake effect causing the ATC to operate to reduce the outfits speed this was not a minor issue, so it's sensible to look at the usual causes of snakes which are usually excess speed, insufficient nose load and or poor load distribution.
Outdoorguy tells us his speed was low 50'smph, His nose load was 95Kg, Both these criteria seem to be reasonable to reduce the possibility of a snake, so why was it so easy for a gust to initiate a snake? The third usual component is load distribution in the caravan.
Outdoorguy tells us he has kept his load low in the caravan which is good, but if that has meant he has had to spread it towards the ends then that is adding to the Yaw inertia which increases the potential for snaking. End loading is generally bad news. The bulk of any load should be added as near to the axle as possible to reduce the Yaw inertia.
For that reason I think it is very pertinent for Outdoorguy to review his load distribution in the caravan to reduce any end loading.
It's definitely worth reviewing your loading regime if it make the outfit more resilient to snaking, which will make your towing experiences less stressful.
Good luck.
He said he was running at near on 100%. As a novice he may not have fully understood exactly what truly happened.🤔
If his nose load is correct and all heavy items on the floor then surely we have to assume he is correctly loaded and balanced? There will be heavy things in the rear but if he reduced them his nose load would be too great?
Did the tail wag the dog that he felt it in the steering wheel?
A good learning curve😉
If his nose load is correct and all heavy items on the floor then surely we have to assume he is correctly loaded and balanced? There will be heavy things in the rear but if he reduced them his nose load would be too great?
Did the tail wag the dog that he felt it in the steering wheel?
A good learning curve😉
Prof. I was going from Scotch Corner, to Barnard Castle, along the A66 and the wind was about 20 knots crosswind, buffeting, I was down to about 25mph and my ATC was kicking in every now and again, I had a well balanced caravan, do not put every snake down to inbalance of a caravan loading.
Hello Hutch,
You clearly haven't taken in the detail of what I have written. In this case the OP has stated He felt the ATC operate and brought the speed of his rig down from 50's to 40mph before it disengaged. He also described his driving reaction of having to hold the wheel firmly whilst until the snaking stopped. this was a significant intervention supported by the report of the his speed being reduced which must have taken several seconds. This wasn't a momentary correction such as you have described.
If a trailer snakes then there is some reason for it, in this case neither speed nor nose load were unreasonable, which assuming the car and trailer are all mechanically properly maintained leaves principally a loading issue.
I most definitely have not been putting every snake down to "inbalance of a caravan loading". but if all other contributing factors are Ok then what is left?
Whether my assumptions are correct or not, the fact a snake has occurred makes all possible checks, including loading practice, a no brainer. There's nothing to be lost and possible something to be gained.
Maybe it's down to the use of the term "snake"?
In trailers, my take on it is a self-maintained yawing of the trailer that transfer ultimately into the whole lot yawing. We have a natural frequency issue, one that needs some change to break out of and regain stability and without where the swaying energy can simply build up and flip things over.
This is very different to even a cyclic sway, where all is sufficiently damped that the energy does not build up, and more usually things quickly decay naturally; trailers do this for all manner of reasons. The "S" shaped track exiting a roundabout being an example.
The likes of ATC react to both, it is "dumb" to the extent it can't discriminate if the cyclic motion it senses is the precursor to a snake so takes the wise course before there is too much energy involved.
As an aside here, that over action is not a criticism of ATC just a reality reflecting the simplistic technology employed and something I quite like as it assures me it's working. Plus of course being so basic it is technology I can afford to have and is void of additional complexities that inevitably add to reliability issues. That little tug is no bad thing, maybe I did that maneuver a bit fast and sharp and as said assuring it's still there alive.
In trailers, my take on it is a self-maintained yawing of the trailer that transfer ultimately into the whole lot yawing. We have a natural frequency issue, one that needs some change to break out of and regain stability and without where the swaying energy can simply build up and flip things over.
This is very different to even a cyclic sway, where all is sufficiently damped that the energy does not build up, and more usually things quickly decay naturally; trailers do this for all manner of reasons. The "S" shaped track exiting a roundabout being an example.
The likes of ATC react to both, it is "dumb" to the extent it can't discriminate if the cyclic motion it senses is the precursor to a snake so takes the wise course before there is too much energy involved.
As an aside here, that over action is not a criticism of ATC just a reality reflecting the simplistic technology employed and something I quite like as it assures me it's working. Plus of course being so basic it is technology I can afford to have and is void of additional complexities that inevitably add to reliability issues. That little tug is no bad thing, maybe I did that maneuver a bit fast and sharp and as said assuring it's still there alive.
I also been towing for 40 + plus years never experience a snake at present we have a fantastic tow car and the caravan is always correctly loaded and i am very sensible on the roads and conditions and keep my speed down so far it worked
I don't know how you can say that the speed was not unreasonable. To make my point, take an extreme example. A snake will never occur at walking pace, no matter how badly loads are distributed. Not that I'm saying that one should tow at walking pace, but it's a sliding scale. Somewhere between walking pace and motorway speeds instability can become a issue and it's up to the driver to sense the point where things become uneasy and one needs to make sure that speed is not exceeded. The only exception that I can see where one could be caught out is if something really unexpected happens, such as a sudden bout of crosswind or a forced evasive manoeuvre. However, those would be isolated incidents and would not explain general nervous or twitchy towing.
I've been towing since I was 19 (35 years) and have never experienced a snake (touch wood) but have had a few wobbles that I felt may have progressed into a snake had I not taken some action.
Never felt the ATC come on either.
Never felt the ATC come on either.
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