Nissan Qashqai

[ProfJohnL]

I'm no expert on this but.....

The towing weight ratio is only a guideline. Other factors such as legal limits are more important as is the manufacturers recommended towing capacity.

Taking the example of adding more weight to the car in order to raise the towing weight ratio - and Buckmans example of the weight increase due to the tow bar - then does adding the Nose Weight imposed by the caravan/trailer also increase the perceived car weight - after all its the car that's taking this load just like putting a few bags of cement in the boot.

Absolutely, the towing ratio is only a guideline, and I know its a very poor metric for assessing towing outfits, but at least is does suggest the benefits of keeping the masses of trailers and especially caravans as small as possible which is good sense.

 

[Buckman]

Despite seeing numerous threads on the 85% towing ratio, one thing that no one seems to have identified is exactly who developed it, and when. So I’m really surprised at your comment re Google. Could you provide the link please?

Exactly. The 85% figure it seems to have been chosen at random based on an experiment Bristol university did decades ago using models and technology based on cars of that era. We have moved on a lot since.
Not sure why there seems to be an argument about it unless some people are simply bored and looking for responses by trying to wind up other like on another thread? 😀

 

[RogerL]

Exactly. The 85% figure it seems to have been chosen at random based on an experiment Bristol university did decades ago using models and technology based on cars of that era. We have moved on a lot since.
Not sure why there seems to be an argument about it unless some people are simply bored and looking for responses by trying to wind up other like on another thread? 😀

The Caravan Club, as it was then, had recommended a maximum towing ratio for decades before the Bristol experiment, originally based on the consensus of experienced caravanners - it's been gradually increased from 75% to 80% and then to 85/100% in the NCC Towing Code for beginners/experienced caravanners.

 

[otherclive]

Exactly. The 85% figure it seems to have been chosen at random based on an experiment Bristol university did decades ago using models and technology based on cars of that era. We have moved on a lot since.
Not sure why there seems to be an argument about it unless some people are simply bored and looking for responses by trying to wind up other like on another thread? 😀

I thought by you referring to Google that you had found something relevant to the derivation of the 85% ratio, but if you can’t produce a link then your comment is superfluous.

 

[Buckman]

I thought by you referring to Google that you had found something relevant to the derivation of the 85% ratio, but if you can’t produce a link then your comment is superfluous.

Seems a lack of understanding by you regarding my comment for which I apologise. I never mentioned any derivation of the 85% ratio which is based on very old dated technology therefore an arbitrary figure.

 

[otherclive]

The Caravan Club, as it was then, had recommended a maximum towing ratio for decades before the Bristol experiment, originally based on the consensus of experienced caravanners - it's been gradually increased from 75% to 80% and then to 85/100% in the NCC Towing Code for beginners/experienced caravanners.

Was it Bristol as I’ve only ever seen the University of Bath research reports on trailer stability through sponsorship from Bailey of Bristol. Prof John posted in a thread a while back on the U of B work plus involvement of Bailey, and CC but it still did not link 85% with any specific body. But notwithstanding that dearth of information it provides a starting point for new caravanners along with several other facets that contribute to a stable outfit.

 

[RogerL]

Was it Bristol as I’ve only ever seen the University of Bath research reports on trailer stability through sponsorship from Bailey of Bristol. Prof John posted in a thread a while back on the U of B work plus involvement of Bailey, and CC but it still did not link 85% with any specific body. But notwithstanding that dearth of information it provides a starting point for new caravanners along with several other facets that contribute to a stable outfit.

You're right - my bad!

I agree it's a good place to start for beginners.

 

[Buckman]

Was it Bristol as I’ve only ever seen the University of Bath research reports on trailer stability through sponsorship from Bailey of Bristol. Prof John posted in a thread a while back on the U of B work plus involvement of Bailey, and CC but it still did not link 85% with any specific body. But notwithstanding that dearth of information it provides a starting point for new caravanners along with several other facets that contribute to a stable outfit.

I also concur however as said technology has moved on significantly since then. Also we now have a new term known as MIRO in addition to kerbweight. I would think that the MIRO would be a better starting point with newer vehicles as it includes mass of the vehicle with bodywork in running order including coolant, oils, fuel, tools, spare wheel and driver.

Some insurance companies who have access to better statistics than we will ever see have a clause in their T&Cs regarding the weight ratio which must not exceed 95% so maybe they know something more about modern cars that we don't know?

 

[RogerL]

I also concur however as said technology has moved on significantly since then. Also we now have a new term known as MIRO in addition to kerbweight. I would think that the MIRO would be a better starting point with newer vehicles as it includes mass of the vehicle with bodywork in running order including coolant, oils, fuel, tools, spare wheel and driver.

Some insurance companies who have access to better statistics than we will ever see have a clause in their T&Cs regarding the weight ratio which must not exceed 95% so maybe they know something more about modern cars that we don't know?

Other insurance companies are quite unconcerned with weight ratios, even when the towing limit is nearly twice the kerbweight - indeed no car or caravan insurer has ever imposed such restriction on any of my policies.

 

[otherclive]

I also concur however as said technology has moved on significantly since then. Also we now have a new term known as MIRO in addition to kerbweight. I would think that the MIRO would be a better starting point with newer vehicles as it includes mass of the vehicle with bodywork in running order including coolant, oils, fuel, tools, spare wheel and driver.

Some insurance companies who have access to better statistics than we will ever see have a clause in their T&Cs regarding the weight ratio which must not exceed 95% so maybe they know something more about modern cars that we don't know?

Using MIRO for the car would possibly cause even more confusion to newbies. Why not Mass in Service as that’s recognised in the V5.

 

[Buckman]

Using MIRO for the car would possibly cause even more confusion to newbies. Why not Mass in Service as that’s recognised in the V5.

I understand your point, but isn't that the same as kerbweight? You cannot tow a trailer without a fitted towbar, fluids in vehicle and a driver which is why I suggested MIRO.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Do Renault still apply that policy. Citroen did at one time but dropped it.

I wouldn't call it a policy as Renault applied it differently on different models. I suspect it was a ploy to make lighter cars seem more appealing.

However regardless of the manufacturer it a system which is particularly awkward for caravanners as caravans tend to be heavier trailers and thus are more likely to be towards the top limits especially of smaller cars.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I suggest the issue of how and by whom the industry towing ratio subject was evolved should stop here and if anyone wan't to discuss it further they should start a new thread.

 

[Raywood]

Other insurance companies are quite unconcerned with weight ratios, even when the towing limit is nearly twice the kerbweight - indeed no car or caravan insurer has ever imposed such restriction on any of my policies.

Do beware that all policies require the outfit to be in a roadworthy condition. If you go silly with the weights you might find they try to invoke that condition.

 

[RogerL]

Do beware that all policies require the outfit to be in a roadworthy condition. If you go silly with the weights you might find they try to invoke that condition.

It's not an issue for me as I always try to ensure roadworthiness, indeed I try to ensure the highest standards - and always try to operate within weight limits.

My point was that all my towcars have had towing limits substantially higher than their kerbweight, it's one of my criteria for a good tow car even though I usually tow at relatively low Towing Ratios, but none of my insurance policies have ever restricted towing to a specific % of the kerbweight, always allowing me to tow up to the car's limit.

 

[JezzerB]

Never seen an insurance policy quoting weights but of course stands to reason you must tow within manufacturers tested limits and no more. If you're not legal you're not insured properly. Road worthy? Same.

 

[Dustydog]

Herein lies another problem. Should you base your weight ratio on the MIRO or MTPLM? That’s a rhetorical question from me. . A fully loaded caravan upto the MTPLM will definitely change your calculation. I’m like Roger and have always gone for a heavier tug. But I accept that in itself is no solution when all other criteria are taken into account

 

[RogerL]

Herein lies another problem. Should you base your weight ratio on the MIRO or MTPLM? That’s a rhetorical question from me. . A fully loaded caravan upto the MTPLM will definitely change your calculation. I’m like Roger and have always gone for a heavier tug. But I accept that in itself is no solution when all other criteria are taken into account

The perceived wisdom is to treat caravans as fully loaded, ie running at MTPLM, as the payloads are so meagre - at least on most UK-built caravans they're meagre,

 

[Devontug]

Getting back to the original question. I understand that this isn't relevant to the particular model in question. But coincidentally we looked at a 2020 1.7 diesel yesterday with a view to towing. The salesman said that the naximum towing limit for the 1.7 is 2000kg. I checked when I got home and a lot of sites seemed to contradict this, quoting limits already mentioned in this thread. However, with a but of digging, it turned out the salesman was correct. This is from a 2019 Nissan press release

 

[Dustydog]

See #2 &#9.
Towing caravans is a complex subject rarely understood by car salesmen. A very dangerous misleading statement imo. Best search this site about weights and nose loads. I really don’t want to be the harbinger of reopening old threads😉

 

[Buckman]

Getting back to the original question. I understand that this isn't relevant to the particular model in question. But coincidentally we looked at a 2020 1.7 diesel yesterday with a view to towing. The salesman said that the naximum towing limit for the 1.7 is 2000kg. I checked when I got home and a lot of sites seemed to contradict this, quoting limits already mentioned in this thread. However, with a but of digging, it turned out the salesman was correct. This is from a 2019 Nissan press release

However it certainly would not be wise to tow 2000kg with a Nissan Qashqai!

 

[otherclive]

Getting back to the original question. I understand that this isn't relevant to the particular model in question. But coincidentally we looked at a 2020 1.7 diesel yesterday with a view to towing. The salesman said that the naximum towing limit for the 1.7 is 2000kg. I checked when I got home and a lot of sites seemed to contradict this, quoting limits already mentioned in this thread. However, with a but of digging, it turned out the salesman was correct. This is from a 2019 Nissan press release

Best place to find accurate information is on the weight label attached to a vehicle. Normally found on a B pillar or in the engine bay. So when looking at cars just have a peep at the weight label.

But 2000kg for a Quashqai will not make it a suitable tow car for such a heavy caravan. Caravans behave very differently to say a low loaded trailer with a car or boat on it. The caravan is a large box with high COG susceptible to stability disturbing inputs that other types of trailer are not affected by.

 

[Devontug]

Best place to find accurate information is on the weight label attached to a vehicle. Normally found on a B pillar or in the engine bay. So when looking at cars just have a peep at the weight label.

But 2000kg for a Quashqai will not make it a suitable tow car for such a heavy caravan. Caravans behave very differently to say a low loaded trailer with a car or boat on it. The caravan is a large box with high COG susceptible to stability disturbing inputs that other types of trailer are not affected by.

I didn't mention any caravan weight. The 2000kg is the car manufacturers published max tow weight for a 2020 1.7 diesel.

 

[Dustydog]

So you didn't open the attachment then. I was commenting on the fact that the salesman was correct about the maximum towing weight as stated in the 2019 press release. I am well aware of all the issues about nose weights, 85% rule, and anything else you feel the need to display your superior knowledge of.

Oh well , you know best 😎

 

[otherclive]

Re #50 Since this is a caravan forum I assumed you may have had an interest in a heavier caravan. Anyway why bother posting about 2000kg if it’s not really relevant to you. Many cars have manufacturers towing limits that are well above what any sensible person would tow a caravan at. I assume that you know how the towing limit is determined?