Hmm...The biggest annoyance will be having to stop at every bridge to take down the mastI was a bit jokey about the RAT, but looking at the specs of this one for a boat, maybe the idea is not that far from the truth.
Rutland 914i Windcharger - Marlec
Rutland 914i is Marlec's most recent Windcharger boasting more output than its predecessor the Rutland 913. Battery charging windchargers.www.marlec.co.uk
Nothing wrong with building a raft using 44 gallon drums for buoyancy and then putting your caravan on the raft. Plain sailing. LOL!
l am agreement with Prof Taking the mast down at every bridge would be a painHmm...The biggest annoyance will be having to stop at every bridge to take down the mast
At the moment there is a huge shortage of chips for cars which may last well into 2022 and beyond. This is affecting production of cars and some brands have shut down plants.
On top of this apparently there is a shortage of readily available nickel which is used in batteries. There are two types of nickel mined today, one type that is short in supply is easier to use in EV batteries, the other requires a lot more processing. Battery production creates a lot of sulphur dioxide emissions, carcinogenic dust clouds and contaminated water.
Of the known nickel deposits on planet earth, 40% exist in biodiverse and protected areas, 35% exist in areas of high water stress. The risk of species extinction due to nickel production has been known for 20 years or more and I suspect that in highly biodiverse locations such as Brazil, EV battery production is already a factor in this.
Makes you wonder if an EV is really environmentally friendly?
On top of this apparently there is a shortage of readily available nickel which is used in batteries. There are two types of nickel mined today, one type that is short in supply is easier to use in EV batteries, the other requires a lot more processing. Battery production creates a lot of sulphur dioxide emissions, carcinogenic dust clouds and contaminated water.
Of the known nickel deposits on planet earth, 40% exist in biodiverse and protected areas, 35% exist in areas of high water stress. The risk of species extinction due to nickel production has been known for 20 years or more and I suspect that in highly biodiverse locations such as Brazil, EV battery production is already a factor in this.
Makes you wonder if an EV is really environmentally friendly?
Depends on what element of the environment you wish to "befriend" nickel can be mined in ways that aren't prejudicial to the environment but up to now those countries that have the large reserves haven't paid much attention to protecting the environment. If you have ever seen the Alberta tar sands extraction areas you would be absolutely shocked that a country like Canada allows it.
Whether we like it or not electrification of vehicles proceeds at a pace. A recent report showed PHEV cars emitting up to four times the CO2 as when tested. Why? Well it is because owners either needed them for longer journeys than they thought, or are too lazy to charge them up so short journeys are not done on battery. The net result seems to be that some companies will begin to phase out hybrids from 2025, and legislation may be tightened for hybrids. Volvo are furious!
Electric and other cars need chips and there are limited amount of chips available. If there is an issue with nickel it makes you wonder why aren't they pushing hydrogen electric cars as an alternative?
I think that there a lot of chips in ICE cars these days. So not much difference.
As a mature student I did a FT HNC course in the 70’s, (decade of the chip emerging). There was one chap no one got on with, one day he announced his ambition was to open a fish and chop shop. This seemed at odds with our course, another had to lead him on and told him to succeed he needed a gimmick. Why not cut your potatoes into conical shapes he said. Engrossed the future chip shop owner asked why.
You could sell them as silly cone chips.
He was not best pleased.
John
You could sell them as silly cone chips.
He was not best pleased.
John
Nickle is a material that is used in many thousands of differnt applications and products. It is not the sole component of EV's. or batteries. It has been extracted for centuries so why do you now try to blame it ALL on EV's?
From the your whole responses involving EV's you have attempted to call into question their efficiencies, and ecological credentials, It is clear you are prejudiced against EV's and are trying to find any possible headline to denigrate them. Well you are entitled to your opinion.
Every human activity produces emissions of some type or another and they all have an impact on the ecology of the planet - even drawing breath. The same applies to all industrial processes, so whilst you seem to take great delight in pointing out the negative headlines about EV's and battery production with the slimmest of factual basis, perhaps you aught to look more carefully at what actually happens now and what alternatives her might be.
Let me be very very clear. I do not know of any responsible person who has claimed that EV's are 100% clean and produce zero emissions (except for tail pipe). However we are in an age where we are taking far more notice of how our activities impact the environment, and we are making informed choices on ways to minimise those impacts. No one can deny the production of EV's and batteries will produce some unwanted pollution, but there are plenty of highly regarded studies that have looked whole life impact of vehicles with the fuels they use and they all conclude EV's do less harm to the environment than the whole life impact of ICE vehicles.
The ICE vehicle the industry has for many years churned out vehicles that we know pollute. But there's an even bigger elephant in the room which has been previously discussed in this thread and elsewhere, and that is enormous amounts of pollution and energy inefficiency associated with the production of every gallon of petrol or diesel you put in your car.
If your going to look at how batteries are made and judge them to be undesirable, then you have to look at how petrol and diesel is produced including all the refining and transportation it takes, and consider the horrendous inefficiencies and emissions of internal combustion engines in vehicles especially in cities.
EV's are not the total solution to pollution and climate change they are just one step and the first of many that are needed.
Not sure I could take quite so harsh a view Prof.
There are always pay offs. My reservation has to be encouraging Countries such as Brazil to produce cheaply materials we need for EVs zero emissions but NOT at the cost of the local environment.
I know EVs will be the norm but probably won’t affect my life style. Most of us tuggers will be dead. I suspect the EV motor home will come first. We’ve discussed to death on here EVs. There is no doubt battery technology and more importantly the charging regime will improve to the same time frame as filling your tank with diesel or petrol.
I believe as a sceptic originally that will happen👍👍.
We are in an interim period of development and HMG guidance so I do feel we should respect all views , even those that may appear anti EV.
Challenge to change plays just as an important part as the new design itself imo.
There are always pay offs. My reservation has to be encouraging Countries such as Brazil to produce cheaply materials we need for EVs zero emissions but NOT at the cost of the local environment.
I know EVs will be the norm but probably won’t affect my life style. Most of us tuggers will be dead. I suspect the EV motor home will come first. We’ve discussed to death on here EVs. There is no doubt battery technology and more importantly the charging regime will improve to the same time frame as filling your tank with diesel or petrol.
I believe as a sceptic originally that will happen👍👍.
We are in an interim period of development and HMG guidance so I do feel we should respect all views , even those that may appear anti EV.
Challenge to change plays just as an important part as the new design itself imo.
I agree that his answer to my post was well over the top and he misunderstood my post as I was querying the shortage of nickel and also semi conductors and not knocking EVs.
Is there a shortage of nickel I’ve not seen that reported, but there have been recent reports of the environmental effects of nickel mining. The large Russian producer has been cleaning up it’s act for some while now, and even Putin has told them to improve quickly. So they must be bad. Russia being the largest producer of nickel, but they got lambasted for a massive oil spill.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-pollution-nornickel-kremlin-idUSKBN23C1CI
The shortage refers to readily available nickel. Here is an article about the damage being done. See HERE. Also have a read of 2nd paragraph post 581 regarding mining nickel and processing it. The hydrogen car like the Toyota Miria seems to be the way forward if you can afford one. That is the car I woudl not mind purchasing.
I am aware of the poor environmental record of several nickel mining countries and their associated manufacturing facilities. But if there is shortage of nickel why have commodity prices reduced then? Admittedly as EV battery numbers increase as they surely will then obtaining the required amounts of nickel will be a key feature of the supply chain. Russia is opening a manufacturing facility in Finland to process Russian ore, as the Finnish approach is more environmentally acceptable to EU customers for the product, and Russia's existing facilities are unlikely to meet the growing demand.
Not sure why nickel is being singled out. I did see a documentary on how Canada was causing massive ecological problems with their mining techniques, (but it may have been a biased view). However, Canada seems rich in the raw materials needed. lithium, graphite, nickel, cobalt, aluminum and manganese.
Another report talked about the mileage involved in battery manufacture, Canada to China then back to the west. But again, perhaps it was biased.
John
Another report talked about the mileage involved in battery manufacture, Canada to China then back to the west. But again, perhaps it was biased.
John
Agreed, but giga factories for batteries are now planned for building in Europe, but like with most raw materials such as metal ores, and fossil fuels there are costs associated with transporting them, or the finished products to the user. But it is no different really to vehicle components such as the engine, where Ford UK haven't made any vehicles in UK for years, but have exported massive numbers of engines worldwide for a wide range of Ford vehicles. .
The final possibility is without bulk carrier ships using mega kites, to transport bulk Materials and then final loads. and other such methods, we will be told that Electric power is best,
I have not looked into large Hyrogen Electric power, but as soon as it is available then who ever "Owns the wealth" will either buy it up and use it , or buy it and Then Wait.
I have not looked into large Hyrogen Electric power, but as soon as it is available then who ever "Owns the wealth" will either buy it up and use it , or buy it and Then Wait.
The fact is whether its an ICE, EV or Hydrogen vehicle none of them are totally free from causing some form of environmental damage from their construction, use and from the way their fuel is produced.
If we want cars or indeed many other products, we have to accept there is an environmental cost to them. The knack is balance all the pros and cons and choose one which over its life time cause the least significant damage over all.
Hydrogen at present is a non starter for the masses. Every production technique available requires electricity, and a significantly expensive and complex infrastructure to make it widely available.
But it must not be forgotten the amount of pollution ICE vehicles have created over the last 100Y from both their manufacture years and the oil companies methods of extracting the raw material, the cost of creating and running refineries, the cost of storage and bulk transport, and local transport to petrol stations. We know all this, and can avoid its continued wastefulness.
Again the power used by the oil companies is usually electricity, and for both hydrogen and oil burners, It is more cost effective to put the electricity into a car battery directly.
If we want cars or indeed many other products, we have to accept there is an environmental cost to them. The knack is balance all the pros and cons and choose one which over its life time cause the least significant damage over all.
Hydrogen at present is a non starter for the masses. Every production technique available requires electricity, and a significantly expensive and complex infrastructure to make it widely available.
But it must not be forgotten the amount of pollution ICE vehicles have created over the last 100Y from both their manufacture years and the oil companies methods of extracting the raw material, the cost of creating and running refineries, the cost of storage and bulk transport, and local transport to petrol stations. We know all this, and can avoid its continued wastefulness.
Again the power used by the oil companies is usually electricity, and for both hydrogen and oil burners, It is more cost effective to put the electricity into a car battery directly.
Reality from the Scientists World wide says
“The future primary energy mix in 2050 shows that growth rates will be highest for renewable energy sources. In absolute terms, fossil fuels (coal, oil, gas) will remain dominant, up to and including 2050.”
If I survive to 2050 , I’ll be ancient, no longer driving, not caravanning, probably dribbling and in a care home . When I switch on my little light I doubt I will give a monkeys uncle how clean the power is. Maybe I’ll be recovering from another man made disaster WW3 God forbid.
EVs are here and will improve but not enough for any point scoring imo😉😉😉
“The future primary energy mix in 2050 shows that growth rates will be highest for renewable energy sources. In absolute terms, fossil fuels (coal, oil, gas) will remain dominant, up to and including 2050.”
If I survive to 2050 , I’ll be ancient, no longer driving, not caravanning, probably dribbling and in a care home . When I switch on my little light I doubt I will give a monkeys uncle how clean the power is. Maybe I’ll be recovering from another man made disaster WW3 God forbid.
EVs are here and will improve but not enough for any point scoring imo😉😉😉
I think that many have missed the point with their replies. In the second paragraph of my post regarding shortage of chips and nickel, I did mentioned shortage of "readily available nickel" which does not require much processing. That is where the shortage lies. The "other" nickel requires a lot more processing and that processing is detrimental to the environment.
See today’s DT . Excellent article on precious metals needed forEVs. Nickel,Cobalt,Lithium Vanadium and Tin . China dominates! Now a firm based in London , backed by US Government is searching out alternative supplies. We’ve had the Oil Sheiks, now it’s the EV material Sheiks😂😂. Tongue in cheek , perhaps we should abandon anihilation of ICEs in 2030 lest we have nothing as we face doom and gloom from those who make the precious metals😉
The press love a doom and gloom story-since the Chinese seem to be the up and coming major players in the ev market-already plenty of evs in China, it's just same old same old until we or someone else gets their act together! Mr Musk seems to be ahead of the game but for how long as others ramp up. We'll see.
I won’t post it again for a third time but previously I’ve posted a link(s) which refer to a single Chinese city with 14000 or so fully electric buses, and it’s not alone. I suspect that one city probably has more EV buses than Europe and the US put together. Their strides in EV technology are strategic, and along with their sourcing of material for EVs and electronics components, together with food supplies too, from other countries they are quite clearly playing the long game. China is the worlds largest user of renewable energy sources which links with their drive for greater use of electric vehicles, and climate objectives.
One thing we should not forget is that auto batteries are highly recyclable and following their removal from the vehicle, they may have sufficient life to be used in parallel with renewable energy sources prior to being recycled.
One thing we should not forget is that auto batteries are highly recyclable and following their removal from the vehicle, they may have sufficient life to be used in parallel with renewable energy sources prior to being recycled.
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