JimNow thats an interesting argument Steve and one that might be worth debating. I dont like motor vehicles in the countryside but I am lucky enough to be able to walk easily. So the question is "Should motor vehicles be allowed to bring people in to the countryside who couldnt get there any other way". Perhaps we should post that as a topic for debate, most caravanners are interested in countryside matters. Personally I cant give an opinion at the moment, I dont like offroaders but who am I to deny you access if thats the only way for you.
Whats your view on offroading for fun Wendy?Why does the 4x4 owner always draw the short straw?
We have a Disco to tow our caravan and is also used as a general workhorse for business. The only thing which I consider as inappropriate is, mothers driving kids 100 yards to school in a 4x4 which has no other use than a children chariot!!
Personally, we don't use our Disco for offroading. It has it's job and that's all. It doesn't mean to say we dissaprove ....we had a very old LR which was used as an offroading vehicle, and it was great fun, but, this was not green laning but an organised meet on a JCB training site.Why does the 4x4 owner always draw the short straw?
We have a Disco to tow our caravan and is also used as a general workhorse for business. The only thing which I consider as inappropriate is, mothers driving kids 100 yards to school in a 4x4 which has no other use than a children chariot!!
There is no easy answer, any scheme would be open to abuse, just look at the blatant abuse of the disabled parking badge scheme.Jim
I am one of the lucky ones who can get around (just not too far). As for a debate! it would end as an opinion of where the line is drawn, how able must the person be? how far into the countryside? where? when?
The problem with this kind of thing is that people abuse it, thats the real issue to the whole access to the countryside argument. I love the countryside and hate to see it get abused by anyone, this includes off roaders as well as ramblers (who cause more damage than they admit too)
I am lucky because my lack of abilities are not too visible due to treatment and special braces. But I am also treated as a hooligan in a 4x4 when out because I did not walk the path.
My belief is that all people should have a choice and that rules can be put in place and managed to ensure abuse is avoided. I also believe that the countryside is there for all to enjoy, no matter how they want to enjoy it. there is room for everyone as long as tolerance is given and abuse is controlled.
see the new thread called open inviteThere is no easy answer, any scheme would be open to abuse, just look at the blatant abuse of the disabled parking badge scheme.
Got no problem with that Wendy or 4x4s for towing, its green laning I object to. Just had a conversation with Steve who has made the point that due to poor health he cant get in to the countryside any other way. Dont know what to say, I dont like it but who am I to deny him access.Why does the 4x4 owner always draw the short straw?
We have a Disco to tow our caravan and is also used as a general workhorse for business. The only thing which I consider as inappropriate is, mothers driving kids 100 yards to school in a 4x4 which has no other use than a children chariot!!
OK I understand why some people would choose a 4X4 (though I still dont want one myself) and I think the anti's (I am a part anti) should consider why they object before they shout too loudly. If they object on environmental grounds and increased nuisance and danger to other road users then perhaps they should consider whether they should be caravanning at all. I have often thought it is slightly ridiculous to drag my tin box 200 miles down the motorway and 200 miles home again, only for it to be replaced by someone else doing the same thing at the end of the week, why not just leave the damn thing there. The reason I do it is because I am selfish (or is it personal choice). I want to go whenever and wherever I want. I want to sleep in my own bed, take my dogs, make a mess if I want or keep it tidy and I think these are the reasons why people like caravanning. If caravanning is OK despite the extra pollution it causes etc then surely it is in everybodys interest that the towing vehicle is big enough and powerful enough to ensure that the van arrives on site safely and with the minimum inconvenience to others, not some underpowered old wreck (like my old Volvo!) which is a bl--dy nuisance to others and possibly dangerous because its so slow. So I think 4x4's towing caravans are fine and I dont see how any caravaner could realisically object when they examine all the arguments. And builders, and farmers, anyone working on the land or with horses to feed etc in short anyone with a genuine need BUT what I hate is people who buy them rather than a normal car in the (possibly mistaken) belief that they will offer more protection to the occupants in an accident (the sod you I'm alright mentallity) and also (here's the controversial bit!) anyone who goes offroading just for fun.
Greenlaners are usually pretty responsible people. In fact I have read somewhere if it wasn't for them, alot of the green lanes would be lost due to lack of upkeep and maintainance. In turn this would be a loss to horse riders and walkers also. In theory I have no objection at all.Whats your view on offroading for fun Wendy?
Own up, who knows what "differtiation " means.There should be some differtiation here.
"4x4" is too general a term.
Is it then unacceptible to drive a 4 wheel drive saloon car like the Audi AllRoad then? Or a Fiat Panda 4x4? or a Volvo V70 AWD?
There are "proper", capable offroad vehicles that are built for a purpose - the potential workhorses. LR Defender etc. I own one of these and use it responsibly offroad. It also comes in useful for clearing burn out stolen cars from Byways to assist the local authority.
Then there are the "soft roaders" - most of which will never see anything more challenging than a kerb in Tesco's car park or a grass pitch!. Most of these are surely status purchases - and I agree many people can't drive the things.
There was a recent survey that actually stated that the Land Rover Defender was the safest "classic" vehicle to drive!.
Own up - how many Ramblers are there in here?.
Presumably its somthing offroaders do deep in the countryside so they dont get disturbed.Own up, who knows what "differtiation " means.
"Then there are the "soft roaders" - most of which will never see anything more challenging than a kerb in Tesco's car park or a grass pitch!. Most of these are surely status purchases - and I agree many people can't drive the things."There should be some differtiation here.
"4x4" is too general a term.
Is it then unacceptible to drive a 4 wheel drive saloon car like the Audi AllRoad then? Or a Fiat Panda 4x4? or a Volvo V70 AWD?
There are "proper", capable offroad vehicles that are built for a purpose - the potential workhorses. LR Defender etc. I own one of these and use it responsibly offroad. It also comes in useful for clearing burn out stolen cars from Byways to assist the local authority.
Then there are the "soft roaders" - most of which will never see anything more challenging than a kerb in Tesco's car park or a grass pitch!. Most of these are surely status purchases - and I agree many people can't drive the things.
There was a recent survey that actually stated that the Land Rover Defender was the safest "classic" vehicle to drive!.
Own up - how many Ramblers are there in here?.
A Defender may be the safest classic to drive but like all 4x4's they're lethal to pedestrians.
Own up, who knows what "differtiation " means.
And cars, don't forget them, afterall they account for greater number of deaths on the road than any other vehicle!!!!So are trucks, buses and tractors - shall we ban them too then?
truck, buses etc have a valid purpose and worth the risk. The risk is to great and the benifits are very small with 4x4.A Defender may be the safest classic to drive but like all 4x4's they're lethal to pedestrians.
Sorry but that is again just your point of view. And again you post it as if it is everyones. Pete, you have no idea what the benefits of using a 4x4 is to the individuals, so why post blanket statements like that?truck, buses etc have a valid purpose and worth the risk. The risk is to great and the benifits are very small with 4x4.
David,
If you think there is more important things to get exited about, why do you threaten to run somebosy over when they don't agree with you?