Lord B, you'll get no argument from me. At times, I'm very glad to be 64. I think there's a very sad for my grandson.
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Bl##dy computer! that should read "sad future".Lord B, you'll get no argument from me. At times, I'm very glad to be 64. I think there's a very sad for my grandson.
Nautilus, if by xenophobia you mean anything that dares to question the viability or sustainability of this country to support a large influx of migrants, the majority of which are economic, then I will wear the title and continue to question the sense of rushing towards overcrowding the population as a whole and the job market in particular.
Marc
Marc
SL is factually incorrect.http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/gender_equality/legislation/index_en.html is a useful if you are really interested in the true facts.
I am neither PC enough or interested enough to continue a discussion based on emotion rather than facts so will not be posting on this issue again.
I am disappointed that the noble art of 'rabble rousing' seems to be alive and well on this forum.
I am neither PC enough or interested enough to continue a discussion based on emotion rather than facts so will not be posting on this issue again.
I am disappointed that the noble art of 'rabble rousing' seems to be alive and well on this forum.
S.L.
"It is not just the migrant that is the problem, it is the fact that they will bring their whole family group and so we will be paying pensions to those who have never worked here and of course education and health treatment will need to be provided for all. In addition, such large numbers can elect their own MP's and demand preferential treatment, the cost of which will have to come from the existing citizens.
I do believe that to obtain a UK pension you have to have a minimum of NI ( Stamps ). As for the MPs I really think you are just throwing up something to argue about. In the EU each country has a say already in what we do,so it's really no different. What does worry me about some replies in this thread is the negativity,it's like pull up the drawbridge we are already here. If the Eastern European states don't progress through the export of labour, what will happen is we will have Millions of starving people at OUR border demanding entry. Better this way than by war which really is the alternative. Now hands UP who has lost a job to an Eastern European ????.
Val & Frank
"It is not just the migrant that is the problem, it is the fact that they will bring their whole family group and so we will be paying pensions to those who have never worked here and of course education and health treatment will need to be provided for all. In addition, such large numbers can elect their own MP's and demand preferential treatment, the cost of which will have to come from the existing citizens.
I do believe that to obtain a UK pension you have to have a minimum of NI ( Stamps ). As for the MPs I really think you are just throwing up something to argue about. In the EU each country has a say already in what we do,so it's really no different. What does worry me about some replies in this thread is the negativity,it's like pull up the drawbridge we are already here. If the Eastern European states don't progress through the export of labour, what will happen is we will have Millions of starving people at OUR border demanding entry. Better this way than by war which really is the alternative. Now hands UP who has lost a job to an Eastern European ????.
Val & Frank
Frank read above please, it doesn't stop at jobs, it carries on to housing, traffic, roads, airports, waste disposal etc.
O.K. I realise some people hate trees etc. because it means work in clearing up leaves in the autumn and they would prefer to see the U.K. as a giant concrete block but where does it end?
I do find your comment about millions of starving waiting at our borders, what happened about the rest of the European countries that they passed through to get here?
Do you really think the rest of Europe will have collapsed if we also stopped acting as the United Kingdom of Handouts?
Will by admitting millions in, uncontrolled, make us once more the Industrial capital of the world and the envy of all?
"what will happen is we will have Millions of starving people at OUR border demanding entry. Better this way than by war"
We are getting close to it Frank, why, because the other countries with the exception of those posted by SL have closed their borders to immigrant workers. I also find the comment unbelievable regarding war, it will come to that Frank but the civil war will be within our borders.
Simple intelligence tells anyone we cannot take in the worlds economic migrants, we simply haven't the room or infrastructure and I find anyone who thinks we can must be just plain stupid.
O.K. I realise some people hate trees etc. because it means work in clearing up leaves in the autumn and they would prefer to see the U.K. as a giant concrete block but where does it end?
I do find your comment about millions of starving waiting at our borders, what happened about the rest of the European countries that they passed through to get here?
Do you really think the rest of Europe will have collapsed if we also stopped acting as the United Kingdom of Handouts?
Will by admitting millions in, uncontrolled, make us once more the Industrial capital of the world and the envy of all?
"what will happen is we will have Millions of starving people at OUR border demanding entry. Better this way than by war"
We are getting close to it Frank, why, because the other countries with the exception of those posted by SL have closed their borders to immigrant workers. I also find the comment unbelievable regarding war, it will come to that Frank but the civil war will be within our borders.
Simple intelligence tells anyone we cannot take in the worlds economic migrants, we simply haven't the room or infrastructure and I find anyone who thinks we can must be just plain stupid.
G
Guest
I agree that to get a UK pension you need NI stamps, however, if you do not have the stamps and can prove poverty, you get it by another route, so to my mind the cost to the UK payroll is the same.
I also fully accept that immigration and the free movement of labour can be advantageous, however, I do not think anyone could possibly state that an influx of 1 million in 3 years is controlled immigration, and that is only where we are now. If the present 'flood' across the Central European countries is anything to go by, and yes, if you are not sure then please visit the Austrian border and watch, it will be getting worse and then we could indeed have a 'civil' war between all the immigrant nationalities as to who gets what. Virtually all civilised countries have some form of control. Just try getting into Australia if you are over 40 or the US for example.
It is also very misleading to assume the Eastern States are full of starving people, and I suspect the majority of the citzens of those countries would be appalled to be classified in that way. They usually have a good standard of living and upmarket cars seem to sell well. However, in certain countries they do have a certain proportion of what they happily call 'trouble' and are very happy to see that moving out of their locality. For example I read that Slough has just had a large influx of unaccompanied Romanian children. Can someone explain to me how an unaccompanied child can get all the way across Europe to the UK without somebody arranging this, and why as LB rightly states, did no country on route have sorted the problem out first?
There are a lot of jobs in this country at the present time which are not filled, yet we have a large pool of labour available. The reasons are that the wages are so low as to make it uneconomic for anyone to take them. That does not mean it is correct to find someone outwith, who is willing, for probably the wrong reasons. Sort the problem internally first would be much better. As I mentioned in my last Post there are a lot of homeless immigrants now occupying Council Shelters etc. If it is that bad why can we not offer a return ticket back home, at least they would then be amongst their own families, or are they hanging on hoping for something else?
I recall a popular programme on TV a good few years ago called Auf Wiedersehen Pet which involved Geordie brickies going to Germany to do work as there was no one available there willing to do the work. Plus the North East had high unemployment. Sounds a bit like Poland today. However said Geordies commuted and returned to the UK at the end of the Contract. They did not take their families and expect schooling etc. If our current crop of arrivals did the same then I would have fewer concerns, but the evidence to date suggests otherwise. Plus, and this is probably not as clear as it should be. All immigrants naturally return money to their home countries, in fact in some parts of the world the total value of remunerations can be billions of Dollars etc. That is a lot of money that is not being spent in the host countries, and could obviously have an adverse effect on the economy. In the Middle East they have Petrodollars in large amounts and can afford the drain, I am not so sure we can here.
I also fully accept that immigration and the free movement of labour can be advantageous, however, I do not think anyone could possibly state that an influx of 1 million in 3 years is controlled immigration, and that is only where we are now. If the present 'flood' across the Central European countries is anything to go by, and yes, if you are not sure then please visit the Austrian border and watch, it will be getting worse and then we could indeed have a 'civil' war between all the immigrant nationalities as to who gets what. Virtually all civilised countries have some form of control. Just try getting into Australia if you are over 40 or the US for example.
It is also very misleading to assume the Eastern States are full of starving people, and I suspect the majority of the citzens of those countries would be appalled to be classified in that way. They usually have a good standard of living and upmarket cars seem to sell well. However, in certain countries they do have a certain proportion of what they happily call 'trouble' and are very happy to see that moving out of their locality. For example I read that Slough has just had a large influx of unaccompanied Romanian children. Can someone explain to me how an unaccompanied child can get all the way across Europe to the UK without somebody arranging this, and why as LB rightly states, did no country on route have sorted the problem out first?
There are a lot of jobs in this country at the present time which are not filled, yet we have a large pool of labour available. The reasons are that the wages are so low as to make it uneconomic for anyone to take them. That does not mean it is correct to find someone outwith, who is willing, for probably the wrong reasons. Sort the problem internally first would be much better. As I mentioned in my last Post there are a lot of homeless immigrants now occupying Council Shelters etc. If it is that bad why can we not offer a return ticket back home, at least they would then be amongst their own families, or are they hanging on hoping for something else?
I recall a popular programme on TV a good few years ago called Auf Wiedersehen Pet which involved Geordie brickies going to Germany to do work as there was no one available there willing to do the work. Plus the North East had high unemployment. Sounds a bit like Poland today. However said Geordies commuted and returned to the UK at the end of the Contract. They did not take their families and expect schooling etc. If our current crop of arrivals did the same then I would have fewer concerns, but the evidence to date suggests otherwise. Plus, and this is probably not as clear as it should be. All immigrants naturally return money to their home countries, in fact in some parts of the world the total value of remunerations can be billions of Dollars etc. That is a lot of money that is not being spent in the host countries, and could obviously have an adverse effect on the economy. In the Middle East they have Petrodollars in large amounts and can afford the drain, I am not so sure we can here.
Hi All,
I just googled Brits in Spain and France 250000 in Spain 100000 + in France. A lot are retired so I reckon at least
I just googled Brits in Spain and France 250000 in Spain 100000 + in France. A lot are retired so I reckon at least
Hi All,
I just googled Brits in Spain and France 250000 in Spain 100000 + in France. A lot are retired so I reckon at least
Thats it I am off packing my bags moving to Wales, I will send money home to my family. hehehe Liz
Repeat just incase I posted on wrong thread.
Repeat just incase I posted on wrong thread.
We have several east europeans working for our company at the present time all of whom I get on with on both a work and social basis. Whilst I cannot condemn anybody for trying to earn more money here than they would back within their native countries the fact remains that for the personell within their departments wages have now slipped back to the national minimum wage for anybody applying for the lower skilled jobs that the migrants have occupied. In answer to your statement that they wish to come to the United Kingdom is that they already speak english was somewhat countered only last week by a young Lithuanian who imformed us that English was now popular at the local schools so as to help their chances of coming over and being able to get jobs here.
Marc
Marc
Hi LB we do have a fair few immigrants up here in the North."The main reason they choose the UK is because they speak English"
Frank somehow I don't think you have many where you live. I was in the local hospital casualty department the other day. The only other person, with the exception of us, who could speak English was the receptionist.
Our police have taken lessons in Russian phrases, a language understood by the eastern Europeans.
Polish shops with Polish signage have sprung up selling Polish goods. Even the supermarkets like Asda have shelves given over to solely Polish produce. Newsagents sell Polish newspapers and magazines so why on earth would they have the need to speak English?
One thing I don't understand, if someone can inform me. We have 1000s of east European cars on the roads, who pays their road tax?
Is it us the same people who pay for their health treatment, the British tax payer?
I'm Sorry I can't understand " The only other person, with the exception of us, who could speak English was the receptionist " That could be one Pole and 3 Brits ??? What are you saying 3 Brits and a 100 or a 1000 Eastern Europeans/Poles ???
As for the 1000s of East European cars are you not slightly upping the figures ??? I am sure our Police are doing the checks to ensure Gordon gets his share !!!!! Gordon even steals from the peole on the minimum wage.
You can fume all you want and post links, BUT at the end of the day they are Legal. Fume at your local MP afterall they are in Goverment, the ones that caused this situation !!!!
Val & Frank
Polish shops with Polish signage have sprung up selling Polish goods."The main reason they choose the UK is because they speak English"
Frank somehow I don't think you have many where you live. I was in the local hospital casualty department the other day. The only other person, with the exception of us, who could speak English was the receptionist.
Our police have taken lessons in Russian phrases, a language understood by the eastern Europeans.
Polish shops with Polish signage have sprung up selling Polish goods. Even the supermarkets like Asda have shelves given over to solely Polish produce. Newsagents sell Polish newspapers and magazines so why on earth would they have the need to speak English?
One thing I don't understand, if someone can inform me. We have 1000s of east European cars on the roads, who pays their road tax?
Is it us the same people who pay for their health treatment, the British tax payer?
Yes and in the North we have shops run by Indians and Pakistani nationals selling goods to nationals of those countries.
Send them home ??? You will have to learn to live with the situation we now have. Or we need to change the goverment for the BNP. No Alternatives exsist, because if you can see one contact your local BBC office NOW.
Val & Frank
Lord B... "One thing I don't understand, if someone can inform me. We have 1000s of east European cars on the roads, who pays their road tax?
Is it us the same people who pay for their health treatment, the British tax payer?"
Sorry to quote you here. But they have to have insurance and be road legal for whichever country they came. That includes taxes. We have to do the same when we go to other EU countries so if we are out of the UK and need an MOT the car can be tested in that country. I have a freind in Germany who has a UK registered vehicle which went to the local TUV office for testing as his MOT had expired.
We as tax payers do not pay for their vehicle tax and the Police do pull over vehicles of possible imigrant workers to make sure they are legally used on UK roads. I do know the number of illegal foreign registered vehicles is lower than many expect.
Is it us the same people who pay for their health treatment, the British tax payer?"
Sorry to quote you here. But they have to have insurance and be road legal for whichever country they came. That includes taxes. We have to do the same when we go to other EU countries so if we are out of the UK and need an MOT the car can be tested in that country. I have a freind in Germany who has a UK registered vehicle which went to the local TUV office for testing as his MOT had expired.
We as tax payers do not pay for their vehicle tax and the Police do pull over vehicles of possible imigrant workers to make sure they are legally used on UK roads. I do know the number of illegal foreign registered vehicles is lower than many expect.
Now Rich, Don't be silly, have you not been watching t.v about these so called legal car drivers, they come up with some terrible excuses, why their cars are not taxed or insured,
The Car does not belong to them, it belongs to someone else, they did not know about having a full driving licience, insurance,m.o.t. Join the real world.
P.S Do you have to have a Driving Licience to drive a car, whats that???? lol Liz
The Car does not belong to them, it belongs to someone else, they did not know about having a full driving licience, insurance,m.o.t. Join the real world.
P.S Do you have to have a Driving Licience to drive a car, whats that???? lol Liz
G
Guest
Not too many EU countries have road tax as we do, most road funding comes from other taxation or fuel duty. Yes, insurance is required and yes, the vehicle may be legal in its home country but that doesn't mean to say it meets UK laws. There is an inceasing incidence of foreign registered truicks ignoring the laws of the UK and so do more journeys than the Uk counterpart. Ergo, cheaper costs.
Frank if I recall, you live in the north east of Scotland which I am sure has a few immigrants, but with respect, no where near the number that have arrived either in the south of Scotland or even more importantly in England. 95% of all immigrants arrive in England so the problem is bound to be exacerbated there. It is easy to be 'tolerant' when it is not in your back yard and my sympathies go to those that are seeing the problem at first hand. It is bad enough here in Edinburgh with at least 30000 Poles currently in the City. That is nearly 10% of the population and now accounts for the largest non Uk born group.
Again, I think the main point is being missed. It is not that we are all against immigration, it is merely that we feel that there needs to be some control, both in fairness to the arrivals, and the incumbents. I am decended from immigrants myself, although they arrived here at the time of the Hugenots, so have been around Scotland for quite a while. Intermarriage has now made the SL clan probably indigenous.
I do take the point regarding the blame lying with our elected reprentatives. I suspect that many people if they could re-run the last election may vote completely differently as they now see that they were conned. Unfortunately, we are stuck with it until the next time around, but that should not stop us from voicing our opinions if we feel things are going wrong.
Frank if I recall, you live in the north east of Scotland which I am sure has a few immigrants, but with respect, no where near the number that have arrived either in the south of Scotland or even more importantly in England. 95% of all immigrants arrive in England so the problem is bound to be exacerbated there. It is easy to be 'tolerant' when it is not in your back yard and my sympathies go to those that are seeing the problem at first hand. It is bad enough here in Edinburgh with at least 30000 Poles currently in the City. That is nearly 10% of the population and now accounts for the largest non Uk born group.
Again, I think the main point is being missed. It is not that we are all against immigration, it is merely that we feel that there needs to be some control, both in fairness to the arrivals, and the incumbents. I am decended from immigrants myself, although they arrived here at the time of the Hugenots, so have been around Scotland for quite a while. Intermarriage has now made the SL clan probably indigenous.
I do take the point regarding the blame lying with our elected reprentatives. I suspect that many people if they could re-run the last election may vote completely differently as they now see that they were conned. Unfortunately, we are stuck with it until the next time around, but that should not stop us from voicing our opinions if we feel things are going wrong.
G
Guest
Can I add an aside.
I se we have reached 54 Posts and so far the Mod has not had to intervene on a 'hot' topic. Is that a record?
I se we have reached 54 Posts and so far the Mod has not had to intervene on a 'hot' topic. Is that a record?
In the casualty there were approx. 20 others in 4 groups. There must be 1000s of their cars throughout the country, simply because theres 100s around us. The comment regarding their shops etc. was to put into perspective your comment that they come here because they can speak English."The main reason they choose the UK is because they speak English"
Frank somehow I don't think you have many where you live. I was in the local hospital casualty department the other day. The only other person, with the exception of us, who could speak English was the receptionist.
Our police have taken lessons in Russian phrases, a language understood by the eastern Europeans.
Polish shops with Polish signage have sprung up selling Polish goods. Even the supermarkets like Asda have shelves given over to solely Polish produce. Newsagents sell Polish newspapers and magazines so why on earth would they have the need to speak English?
One thing I don't understand, if someone can inform me. We have 1000s of east European cars on the roads, who pays their road tax?
Is it us the same people who pay for their health treatment, the British tax payer?
Don't be sorry to quote me Rich :O) that's what it's all about. I didn't know how it worked so that's why I hoped someone could tell me so thank you.Lord B... "One thing I don't understand, if someone can inform me. We have 1000s of east European cars on the roads, who pays their road tax?
Is it us the same people who pay for their health treatment, the British tax payer?"
Sorry to quote you here. But they have to have insurance and be road legal for whichever country they came. That includes taxes. We have to do the same when we go to other EU countries so if we are out of the UK and need an MOT the car can be tested in that country. I have a freind in Germany who has a UK registered vehicle which went to the local TUV office for testing as his MOT had expired.
We as tax payers do not pay for their vehicle tax and the Police do pull over vehicles of possible imigrant workers to make sure they are legally used on UK roads. I do know the number of illegal foreign registered vehicles is lower than many expect.
Liz. I know TV shows have to make any situation seem worse or bigger to get veiwers. I have worked for a Motoring Magazine a few times and had to be involved in Staged photo shoots to get impact accross to readers. I also know a number of Police officers who also take their jobs seriously and illegal driving of uninsured or unlicenced drivers is not acceptable. The numbers are not as large as you think. It does happen but all EU countries do have some form of road tax and/or MOT so pulling these foreign cars over is just the same as here in the UK. If a car is unfit for road use then the Police can do several things from requesting a repair and inspection at an MOT station or impounding the vehicle due to it being dangerously unfit for road use.
I do have a full car and Bike Licence I am also fully comp insured and funny enough I am a full blue blood Latvian.So I am at least one person from imigrant stock who is fully legal on UK roads.
So I do know what many of these imigrant workers have to do to live as for some working away from home is their only way of improving their own life when they do home. My cousin is a doctor and has to live on about
I do have a full car and Bike Licence I am also fully comp insured and funny enough I am a full blue blood Latvian.So I am at least one person from imigrant stock who is fully legal on UK roads.
So I do know what many of these imigrant workers have to do to live as for some working away from home is their only way of improving their own life when they do home. My cousin is a doctor and has to live on about
I'll try and keep it going without being too controversial for when you get back SL. Have a safe journey.Can I add an aside.
I se we have reached 54 Posts and so far the Mod has not had to intervene on a 'hot' topic. Is that a record?
Hi Rich, My husband does not earn much more than that per week, wages are very poor down here in Cornwall, but we have a better life style.
Now we both have choices, either we both move back up country to earn bigger bucks, and be unhappy with the lifestyle, or stay put, it's our choice to stay put, ok we could do what oversea workers do, but we choice not to, why can they not stay and stick it out like us, do not take our jobs away, they probably earn a great deal more than my hubby does, that's not fair, do you not agree.
We to have full driving liciences, plus fully comprehensive Insurance, we both also have full no claims bonus.
Things are very difficult for us, on a low wage, but we still would not move up country.
At the end of the day it all boils down to money.
All the money in the world will never make anybody happy.
You cannot tell me all these overseas workers are happy, leaving their families behind, this cannot be the answer,
it's certainly not the answer to help the people in this country if anything will make things worse in the long run,
there is only a certain amount of jobs available and homes, not enough to go around, I am sorry but it has to stop, and we are the only ones to stop it, if employers say no, this is no way descrimation but fair to local employees.
As for the police stopping unlicienced or MOT cars, well sorry have not much time for the police especially down here.
Regards Liz
Now we both have choices, either we both move back up country to earn bigger bucks, and be unhappy with the lifestyle, or stay put, it's our choice to stay put, ok we could do what oversea workers do, but we choice not to, why can they not stay and stick it out like us, do not take our jobs away, they probably earn a great deal more than my hubby does, that's not fair, do you not agree.
We to have full driving liciences, plus fully comprehensive Insurance, we both also have full no claims bonus.
Things are very difficult for us, on a low wage, but we still would not move up country.
At the end of the day it all boils down to money.
All the money in the world will never make anybody happy.
You cannot tell me all these overseas workers are happy, leaving their families behind, this cannot be the answer,
it's certainly not the answer to help the people in this country if anything will make things worse in the long run,
there is only a certain amount of jobs available and homes, not enough to go around, I am sorry but it has to stop, and we are the only ones to stop it, if employers say no, this is no way descrimation but fair to local employees.
As for the police stopping unlicienced or MOT cars, well sorry have not much time for the police especially down here.
Regards Liz
"The UK is a dirty place "
Rich, you hit the nail on the head there. I posted exactly the same thing sometime ago but for some reason Frank disagreed. The roadside verges are like an open refuse tip which is really visible when the vegetation dies down in the winter. In the spring the growing vegetation does hide some of it ... that is until the highways department cut the verges then it looks even worse with cans and shredded paper and plastic.
One sees parents unwrapping sweets/lollies and throwing the wrapper on the floor. At a bus stop the other day someone had sat and peeled an orange and dropped the peel on the floor. Within arms reach was a bin. If you go into some peoples homes, like I have over the last 30 years, it's understandable how they have no civic pride. I wouldn't keep my dogs in their homes and I'm sure pigs would turn their noses up at the thought of swapping their sty for these peoples hovel.
On your other point Rich, and I realise I'm going to extremes to get my point across, we cannot in these small islands accept the population of Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Somalia, Asia etc. uncontrolled, it is total lunacy and will bring us all down, including yourself as an indigenous member of this country. It is anarchy in the making.
The joining of the E.U. is the worse thing this country as ever done. We abandoned our historical trading partners like the Nordic bloc, Commonwealth countries and the U.S.A. and now we are paying the penalty. We are now governed by countries who have tried to invade us for 950 years and failed, now they've done it by stealth.
Rich, you hit the nail on the head there. I posted exactly the same thing sometime ago but for some reason Frank disagreed. The roadside verges are like an open refuse tip which is really visible when the vegetation dies down in the winter. In the spring the growing vegetation does hide some of it ... that is until the highways department cut the verges then it looks even worse with cans and shredded paper and plastic.
One sees parents unwrapping sweets/lollies and throwing the wrapper on the floor. At a bus stop the other day someone had sat and peeled an orange and dropped the peel on the floor. Within arms reach was a bin. If you go into some peoples homes, like I have over the last 30 years, it's understandable how they have no civic pride. I wouldn't keep my dogs in their homes and I'm sure pigs would turn their noses up at the thought of swapping their sty for these peoples hovel.
On your other point Rich, and I realise I'm going to extremes to get my point across, we cannot in these small islands accept the population of Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Somalia, Asia etc. uncontrolled, it is total lunacy and will bring us all down, including yourself as an indigenous member of this country. It is anarchy in the making.
The joining of the E.U. is the worse thing this country as ever done. We abandoned our historical trading partners like the Nordic bloc, Commonwealth countries and the U.S.A. and now we are paying the penalty. We are now governed by countries who have tried to invade us for 950 years and failed, now they've done it by stealth.
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