Overturned Caravan

[Brian_374582181]

Hi to All,

Just overturned my Caravan on the M5 northbound today.

This was my third outing being a newbie. just can't get my head around what happened. I had towed the van from Malvern without any problems, joined the motorway at junction 7 northbound. Still in first lane and travelling at 50mph when it started snaking violently. took my feet off the pedals and it just went. Ended up in the outside lane facing the wrong way with the back end of the car in the air and the van on its side.

Thankfully nobody hurt and no other vehicles involved.

The van is or was an Elddis avante 540 and car is a Kia Sorento.

Not much else in the van other than the awning and two chairs.

Previous outing I had checked the nose weight and it was 75kg.

Tyres were okay, just can't understand what happened other than it was windy

 

[Parksy]

Thank goodness no one was hurt Brian, I hope that your insurers sort things out quickly.

It was quite windy yesterday with some strong gusts so it would appear that you were unfortunate.

I spoke to another new caravanner a few weeks ago who had exactly the same thing happen on the same stretch of motorway.

He'd only been on his first outing and was travelling back on the northbound carriageway with a fairly empty caravan behind his Disco.

Several of us who were listening came to the conclusion that he'd been caught out by the wind from a passing truck and his noseweight was possibly too low.When his snake started he made matters worse by 'trying to accelerate out of it' after he'd heard this bad advice from a tv programme.

 

[Soozeeg]

The M5 can get very strong winds. My husband drives along it for work every day and sees overturned caravans probably once or twice a week, he saw another at the weekend near Cribbs Causeway.

 

[Dustydog]

Brian

Thank goodness no one was hurt. Don't let this put you off. The Sorento is one of the best towcars on the market.

We all talk about loading correctly, noseweights etc but very few take into consideration the weights of the caravan when empty. I say this because you had a fixed double bed, rear end washroom. So quite possible the noseweight was too light.

The Sorento can take 112kgs noseweight. I tend to run between 90 and 95kgs.

I use the M5 regularly and some of the hills are deceptively steeper than you think. Are you sure a puncture wasn't involved?

I hope you get your insurance claim resolved swiftly.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Brian_374582181]

Thanks for your kind replies.

Spoke to the insurers this morning, hope every thing turns out okay. I think the nose weight possibly was a little light, that and the wind. I haven't been put off towing another caravan in future although I won't know till I try. Being a newcomer I am naturally a little cautious towing. Van was fitted with a winterhoff stabiliser. I asssume it was working okay. Towing on the A/B roads seemed fine and stable just when I joined the motorway. No warning it just went.

 

[mucky pup]

Hi Brian

I have some idear how you felt.

I was returning from south devon on 3rd July, just joined the M5, traveling at 55mph when the van started snaking, i was lucky and managed to get it under control and come to a stop on the hard shoulder. As everything seemed to be ok and the van was loaded as i allways load i was realy taken by surprise. My mate Dustydog and i have tried to discover what went wrong and decided the nose was too light and also i had forgotten to empty the toilet flush tank which was full.

Hope everything works out ok for you and it has'ent put you off.

 

[Philspadders]

try to avoid driving in the "tyre depressions " you often find in lane 1. if the van wanders slightly the side of the depression can cause a sway to start.

It must have been very frightening but you are all ok.

 

[wombat1]

Brian

Sounds terrifying, especially as you were probably quite relaxed believing everything was OK.

Not a gloat, but this is exactly what I have wanted from this FORUM for a while now - first hand account, not someones opinion of how it is possible to end up in this terrifying situation.

I have wondered so many times is it really always the carelessness of the driver that caused the situation , or is it possible to be caught out quite suddenly with little warning - apparently so.

I'm certainly going to be very cautious the next time I travel on that stretch of road - in a couple of weeks actually!

Wombat

 

[Glenn_5132962]

Where the tyre pressures correct on both car & caravan? I always inflate my car tyres to the higher of the two values because I believe less tyre wall deflection is better.

 

[Parksy]

I think that Philspadders might have hit upon a primary cause of towing accidents along that particular stretch of the M5.

I've also noticed that the road surface on the M5 in both directions has fairly deep ruts from HGVs and these can easily cause a caravan to sway off course which could in turn lead to a snaking incident.

It would be interesting to find out just how many caravan accidents happen near to these rutted sections of carriageway.

 

[RobinF]

I travel the M5 a lot and the rutts in lane 1 are really bad in places, so bad that my car was being moved around alot when I made a mistake and got my wheels into one, good job I was not towing. Also I was following a caravan the other day that was speeding (I know because I was not catching up to them at all for miles and miles) who got into the rutts and I really did think it was going over but luckly for them they got out of the snake, It did make them slow down to the correct speed limit.

 

[Brian_374582181]

Hi

Tyres on the car were correct pressure. I checked the tyres on the caravan while it was on its side and they were hard. Don't know if they were over inflated but I would assume not. The chap that towed it back from where I bought it checked them before towing it back to me. The part of the M5 where it happened the surface was very flat, no camber or banking.

I think the main factor would have been nose weight being too light, plus the wind. The chap I bought it off told me 70kg, and that was endorsed by a caravaning relative. Reading a previous post I think 90kg would have been better with the Kia.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing.

Even so for it to go like that with no warning as quickly as it did is frightening.

Felt like a fool standing on the hard shoulder with all the single lane traffic comming past, I expect most people assumed I was driving like a loony and a couple of idiots jeered out of their windows. One thing is definate, though I was only doing 50mph and in a straight line.

 

[Philspadders]

im on the M5 in 2 weeks.Ive used the M5 for years and hate the bit from .. well.... Birmingham to Exeter.

 

[Sam_374394490]

Hi Brian

I am really sorry to hear your news, it must have been a very frightening experience for you. Thankfully you are all okay. I hope that your insurance will pay out very soon and you can get back to enjoy caravanning again.

Sam

 

[Brian_374582181]

Hi Brian

I am really sorry to hear your news, it must have been a very frightening experience for you. Thankfully you are all okay. I hope that your insurance will pay out very soon and you can get back to enjoy caravanning again.

Sam

Little bit scary at the time but afterward it just seems surreal

 

[KeithJ]

Hi Brian

So sorry that this happened to you, especially on your 3rd outing - but glad nobody was hurt. It must have been very frightening.

I have been towing for years, and thousands of miles but am at a loss to think of an explanation from the facts you have given

The Kia Sorento is an excellent tow car and the Eldis Avante 540 with an MPTML of 1540kg would appear to be a good match.

You weren't speeding and the van was lightly loaded. I presume the awning was on the floor above the axle, and not at the rear of the van??

You could have increased the noseweight to 100kg, but 75 should have been adequate. Like you, I can't understand what happened, but I hope it does not put you off towing in the future

Keith

 

[sarahandher6dachshunds.]

did you check nose weight this time one is amazed at how much it can change,i always check mine each time,one time i did not and it felt like a squirrel on the hitch pulled in and checked it, i was slightly light.always check,idealy try to get a noseweight of 7% of vans loaded weight,or you may nead higher with a sorrento,i tow with a sedona and a noseweight of 80kg for a 1300 van,that is less than the 7% but max for car i have had no trouble with wind.

luckily no one was hurt.

as for what happened were your tanks empty,water weighs a lot.were you going downhill? if yes then the van may have tried to push the car on,and banged into the back of you,if this happened then lifting of the pedals would not help,as one needs to increase speed to open up the dampener,and then slow down slowly just slightly tapping brake peddle and alternating with power on,if van starts to push car keep repeating until slowed right down.yes it does work,if it was a snake,just swinging side to side you would see it in the mirrors,feet off, hold the steering wheel straight on, speed will drop and stability should return.

you may not have felt a snake start with the sorrento as it is heavy car you need to keep checking towing mirrors.

a lorry overtaking you may have caused the problem with his slip stream,just been enough to pull the van out of line,move over to the left if a hgv overtakes. speed may have been to high for the wind i have had to drop down to 40 miles an hour in bad wind.

if awning was at rear or the chairs this would not have helped,one needs to keep weight over the axle and not more than 1 meter behind axle,otherwise the tail end of the van is heavy and more likely to swing out.

i doubt if it would have been just one thing that led to this but several things all coming together.

look do not blame yourself but do go on a course.

 

[xtrailman]

I had a snake, luckily the rig recovered.

In theory you should hold the wheel straight ahead, in practise when the car is pointing towards to central barrier or the hard shoulder, then if your like me you will steer to correct.

I did and lucky for me the rig recovered.

Back then i was new to caravanning, an experienced (self confessed expert) tower i worked with assured me that a stabiliser was not required, nose weight was never checked, just adjusted so the back of the car looked right.

Now i would never tow with out a stabiliser, regardless of cost, nor would i tow with out checking the nose weight.

My snake started and violently started, immediately after a high speed coach passed, i found the experience very frightening.

If odd how many overturned caravans end up on the side pointing in the direction of the traffic flow, with the car often still attached, but at all manner of strange angles.

Luckily all were ok in brians tragedy.

 

[BillD.]

Like Wombat I always wondered what a first hand account would reveal rather than just reports of an incident to A.N other.

These reports have always concerned me as although I think I am very careful about loading, tyre pressures, nose weights, speed etc it made me wonder was I likely still to be caught unawares for some reason. Having said that I have never experienced any severe snaking problems. On a previous forum on this subject some time ago I seem to remember someone saying PC mag were doing an article on the findings of an investigation (police or highways agency?)into caravan accidents, was there such a thing?

Bill D.

 

[pitchupcyril]

Glad to hear all are safe Brian and pleased you are willing to share the experience. We keep hearing about these incidents and yet in my opinion there is insufficient investigation into the circumstances - its simply put down as another stupid caravanner driving either too fast in windy conditions or the 'van is not well balanced/loaded. This attitude combined with a lack of evidence to determine the cause with any certainty is not going to prevent it happening repeatedly and as a complete surprise to the towing vehicle's driver.

Where are the industry stats on the frequency of these roll overs and where are Al-Ko/Bailey and Brunel University with their research on caravan safety?

In my humble opinion there needs to be some dynamic wind tunnel tesing to establish if, with wind of a certain strength and specified direction relative to the direction of travel, the resulting wind force, perpendicular to the flat side of the van has sufficient force to be capable of not just over-turning the van but of causing a rotational force and immediate snaking.

I don't consider myself experienced at towing having only been at it 18 months but I did complete a CC towing course before setting out on the venture. I raised the above wind issue with the two (very) experienced trainers one of whom was an ex-police driving instructor but neither thought much to it. As a professional mariner I know a bit about the effects of relative wind and will regard these sort of incidents as a mystery until someone proves my theory wrong - it's the sudden gusts coming at you from behind that get you not the side or head winds.

Like to hear what others think about this?

 

[sarahandher6dachshunds.]

Brian if you want to e mail me on

sarahandher6dachounds@hotmail.com.

i can try to help you understand what went wrong.how to avoid a repeat of it all,take you step by step thru how to car match, load,towing tips,ect.

just email me .

 

[Soozeeg]

Brian if you want to e mail me on

sarahandher6dachounds@hotmail.com.

i can try to help you understand what went wrong.how to avoid a repeat of it all,take you step by step thru how to car match, load,towing tips,ect.

just email me .

Are you some sort of expert?

Just wondering, as you seem to be dispensing advice to everyone. ;o)

 

[Dustydog]

Sarah

Pray tell me what went wrong? I'm fascinated.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Soozeeg]

Sarah

Pray tell me what went wrong? I'm fascinated.

Cheers

Dustydog

Me too!!

 

[Parksy]

It's very nice of you and your six dachshunds to offer to help Brian Sarah but the idea behind using a forum is that everyone benefits from shared advice which is posted on the forum for all to see.

If there are subsequent disagreements about the quality of advice given it can then be debated on the open forum.

It's not a great idea to publicly post email addresses, the forum owners have no control over who can access information posted onto this forum so it pays to be careful.

Moderators are happy to forward email addresses when they are requested.