Really stop snaking forever

[colin-yorkshire]

oh yeah if only,

while driving down the A30 with the van on the back having just moved from our last location, a warning light came on on the dashboard immediatly all power was lost although the engine did not stop it would not rev beyond 1500rpm after finding somewhere to stop I called the relay service who took us to our destination. (long story cut very short) after 2 visits from the mobile mechanic by which time the engine would not start at all the problem was found to be a faulty MAF sensor what ever that is and cost

 

[Lutz]

I was already wondering how long it would take for someone to come up with an incident to prove that today's cars are so much more unreliable than in the past. From my recollections of motoring in the 50's, there were just as many cars broken down by the roadside as today only the cause of the breakdowns were different (radiator boiling over and damp in the distributor were favourites back then). I will admit, however, that it was usually easier to get the cars going again, given a little basic knowledge, the ability to improvise, and a few simple tools.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi lutz

I am not saying that modern electronics are totally unreliable as clearly this is not the case however the very nature of the systems dictate that any fault can and usually is difficult to trace and has a greater impact on the whole,as the saying goes the more that can go wrong invariably will go wrong.

just go on any car forum and look at the number of pages of threads dealing with electrionic problems.

 

[smiley]

Hi George

We've just had an Aklo stabilizer fitted.

We could have had the smaller alko as we're only 1150kg but went for the triple pack as the stabilizer seemed better.

We were not dissapointed, not one snake. It cost us

 

[smiley]

Oh forgot to mention.

No more fighting with the old hitchlock, it stays on while towing the only time if came off was for unhitching. Brilliant..

 

[CameronBurns]

thanks smiley, but we already have a stbiliser hitch on our van. thanks for the suggestion though.

i have a few points to make here:

1. Lutz, you don't get the level of protection you pay for; the alko stabiliser hitch is what

 

[Lutz]

Considering that the complete AlKo stabiliser kit only costs

 

[CameronBurns]

Considering that the complete AlKo stabiliser kit only costs

 

[CameronBurns]

what is this politically corectness thing all about? i never said the ATC was

 

[Lutz]

An AlKo stabiliser hitch only costs

 

[Bryan_374360331]

Does anyone know the point of this thread?

ATC isn't compulsory, and if you are happy with a conventional stabiliser" - fine.

 

[xtrailman]

georgeh

point 1,

No a alko hitch can be fitted for the cost of the item, under

 

[Guest]

Just out of interest where does the

 

[CameronBurns]

well, i'm sorry about that, i've just checked and stabiliser hitches have reduced SIGNIFICANTLY in price since i first enquired about one.

but a stabiliser bar is better than a stabiliser hitch as when we first got a stabiliser hitch we drove down to the south of France and the caravan snaked all the way down, so we got back, fitted the bar, did the same trip the following year and it didn't budge.

the point of this thread was to tell everyone about the completely overlooked stabiliser bar, but ATC is better, and a stabiliser bar is useless, it must have been just good luck whist towing our caravans over the past 40 years... i am happy with a stabiliser bar any you are happy with ALKO's new ATC, it isn't me who has an issue with it, i was jst showing people the alternatives.

 

[Guest]

We still had stabiliser bar on our older caravan until this summer as well as Al-Ko hitch stabiliser on new caravan George.

I can't accept that the bar stabiliser is any better and the bar stabiliser has had far more problems reliability wise than a Al-Ko hitch. I changed the old hitch as it had wear issues and the Al-Ko hitch is far easier to use.

Our cars both have trailer stability in built and we have trouble free towing, but we also had trouble free towing without trailer stability just using stabilisers.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

sorry guys you are missing the point here any stabiliser is better than none, right the choice of which is a personal one.

my choice like george.h is to use a bar, why cos it ruddy well works it did 40 years ago and still does today.

what gets me is as soon as somebody says so they are jumped on quoting mythical theories that in reality don't exist

1.no euro they never wear out, the only 2 parts that are replaceable are the friction pads

 

[Lutz]

One cannot say that one would never know whether an electronic stabiliser is working correctly until it is too late. It is fairly easy to check whether it is functioning correctly. I am not familiar with the AlKo unit, but the LEAS system goes through a check cycle as soon as it is connected up. It can also be checked by finding a safe place to perform a deliberate snake - well worth doing, if only to get a feel of what happens and peace of mind, without getting into a state of panic in an emergency situation.

No system is absolutely fail-safe although many come fairly close to it. The same can be said for ABS, ESP, airbags, and all the other electronic gadgets on the towcar, but it also goes for a bar stabiliser where you could have forgotten to adjust the pads correctly - although there you'd only have yourself to blame. However, that's little consolation if you've already had an accident.

The advantage of the electronic stabiliser on the caravan over ESP+ on the towcar is that it acts right at the source of the instability and is therefore much quicker to sense it. Besides, it does not rely on the car's brakes to apply the overrun brake of the caravan.

By the way, all the latest hitch stabilisers have pads to reduce pitching, too.

 

[xtrailman]

I wasn't a easy convert to the alko stabilizer. In 1997 i bought a new Avondale (remember those vans, spare wheel well in the van, bottles over the axle, brilliant).

The van was sold with a promotion pack, this included a 1300 alko kit (something like 1300), it came with the ball and full fitting instructions.

I was quite happy with my bar stabilizer, and just couldn't see how it could work as good as my towsure bar. So i sold it for half its value, about

 

[DomDom]

It seems to me that some people just prefer old technology. Just for the record, vehicle electronics are not unreliable, quite the opposite in fact. However, nothing lasts for ever, nothing! Not even carburettors.

Still, those who prefer mechanical devices are quite at liberty to carry on using them. Me? I prefer electronics thanks.

Sure, points & condenser worked as a control source for an ignition system. Carburettors were great too in their day. But I think I'll stick to electronic ignition, engine management and fuel injection ta.

On a personal level though I am still at a loss as to why caravans don't have air brakes which are controlled using a signal from the car. In this modern day of drive by wire it would not take a lot of engineering ability to design such a system. Then the matter of relying on overrun would be eliminated so a short dab on the brakes would be sufficient to stop snaking in its tracks. That's what we've done for years on artics. There are also spare pins in the newer (better) 13 pin socket which could carry the signal.

More importantly, these advances in technology should be applauded and welcomed, particularly when they relate to safety. Who (honestly) would want to return to the days of no ABS, no ESP, points & condensor, carbs, crossply tyres, drum brakes, no power steering, no seat belts etc etc. ?? No, neither would I.

 

[Lutz]

Actually, if you have a lead to charge the caravan battery and run the fridge on 12v electrics while on the move there are no spare pins in a 13 pin socket. One would have to resort to a can-bus system if the car were to send an electric signal to apply the brakes on the caravan. This, in turn, would require an agreed industry-wide standard on the nature of the signal, not to mention an additional common signal transmitter in the towcar itself. Sounds very complicated to me for the advantage you'd get. Besides, under current legislation, such a system would be illegal anyway, so the law would have to be changed accordingly, too.

I seem to recall that a manufacturer in the 80's developed a hydraulic braking system for trailers which was actuated electrically by sensing the forces in the coupling and applying brake pressure proportional to these forces, i.e. essentially an electrical overrun brake. However, the whole thing was frought with technical problems due to its sophistication and therefore never went into full-scale production.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

"So come on you dinosaur's change over, give up your cigarettes!"

no chance at all, as I have said on this and other forums many times you dont just simply throw something away because it is old.

we can all relate stories of how some product is better or worse than an another, I well remember going to pick up the new (to us) bailey from the dealers, there we are he said all ready to go we have fitted a new alko 1300 stabiliser for you while servicing it "I dont need one iv'e got a scott bar" oh throw that away this is all you will ever need he said "hang it on turn the knob untill it clicks pull down the handle done" ok but you will need to change the ball because it is greasy and the alko uses it's own design of ball ok bought new ball then all the paint had to be got off then fitted with new bolts mmmm

 

[Zafiral]

Just to remind everyone, Alko recommend that their ATC is used in conjunction with, not instead of their mechanical stabiliser.

 

[xtrailman]

Colin

I can see how you have been put off the alko, the 1300 is the worst stabilizer alko make, only two pads, only rated for vans upto 1300kg, if i recall, and a more complicated way of attaching to the van.

My now old version, 2004 (i think that's it model number)only requires the lever lifting or lowering, and that's it, it even has a pad wear indicator, i don't have a trailer, but wiping the ball after use is a 30 second job.

Don't be frighten to change, it does get harder to shake old habits, as age sets in, but the Alko is actually easier to use.

I think perhaps ALKO should now send me some freebies, for all the sales pitch i have ditched out?

How about a free ATC!

 

[colin-yorkshire]

of course they do and there is the rub, it is an as well as not an instead of type system,

so the old alko hitch is still needed, and there still is the inherant problem of the dirty ball and contaminated pads.

 

[Lutz]

The ATC and its equivalents are not necessarily an "as well as not instead of type systems". An ATC will restore stability even without having an additional frictional stabiliser fitted, whether it be an integrated hitch type or a blade stabiliser. It just does not have the comfort feature of damping out pitching or minor "twitches". The ATC can be combined just as effectively with a blade stabiliser. This might even be the optimum solution for those regularly swap trailers and wish to avoid having to clean the towball every time.