Really stop snaking forever

[CameronBurns]

I've read recently about 'remarkable' new devices to aid towing and stop snaking forever. Systems such as the new ALKO ATC system. But how much does it cost? -£500. It may stop snaking but £500 is alot of money particulally in this current economic climate. Stabiliser hitches too. Most caravans come with them but we still encounter snaking when passing lorries at most speeds; so what is the solution? Well, we tried a good old-fashioned stabiliser bar. For just over £100 you can buy the bar, the adaptor for your towball (swan neck or fixed type) and the holder that attatches to the caravan a-frame. It works too. The caravan is as steady as a rock and doesn't budge when passing lorries. People complain about the weight of it, but once fitted, it keeps the caravan under control for a fraction of the price of other accessories.

 

[Iain]

I have Alko ATC on my current 'van. Well worth the cash. Would never have a 'van without it now ... so happy to stump up for it if its not standard spec on our next 'van.

 

[Lutz]

A stabiliser bar, being a passive device, won't prevent snaking, it just raises the threshold when instability starts to set in. The same applies to stabiliser hitches, too. Only an active system, like the AlKo ATC and similar other ones, can do that.

 

[Icemaker]

the alko atc system is a very very good system indeed, i was given the oportunity to try a van with atc fitted for the weekend and found it to improve the tow considerably. the van i borrowed from the dealer was exactely the same as the one i own so it was a like for like test and i was impressed, not impressed enough to swap my van though as im going to wait for the new coachman fixed bed end bathroom model to come out in september and have a look at that. the biggest problem is coachman are not doing this model in the vip yet and i dont think the pastiche has atc as standard.

 

[Lutz]

Just a reminder that the AlKo ATC is not the only electronic stabiliser system and it is only suited to caravans with an AlKo chassis. BPW have their own system, IDC, and then there is the universal LEAS system, distributed in the UK by Conrad Anderson, Birmingham.

ps: I have no association with the above company, but I do have the LEAS system fitted to my caravan.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi george.h

I agree with you 100%

that is not to say lutz is wrong in recomending systems like the ATC but for a good (old fashioned maybe) piece of cheap kit that does everything it claims on the box they cannot be beaten. I have had mine (scott blade type) since 1972 when we bought our first van (dealer freebee) and had it fitted to every one we have owned ever since including our new one.

in the +35 years of caravan use I have never repeat never had a snake, had puntures, blowouts, and been out in force 9 gales without a problem.

ok so over the years you learn a few things like there is absolutly no substitute for loading the van correctly or doing regular servicing, but for a bit of cheap kit that will keep you out of trouble should something untoward happen give me the scott every time.

colin

 

[Chrisbee]

Hi Icemaker

Surly the ATC only operates when the lateral sensors detect an unsafe sway. In normal conditions an ATC system would make absolutely no difference to the towing characteristics of the outfit. Are you sure there weren't other factors involved in the improved towing experience?

 

[Lutz]

Yes, you are right, Chrisbee, that an electronic stabiliser does not affect the inherent towing characteristics of an outfit and only deploys as soon as the lateral sensors detect an unsafe sway, but as such a sway only has to occur once before the stabiliser comes into action, you would hardly notice that anything had gone wrong.

A regular friction stabiliser, on the other hand, does make the joint between car and caravan stiffer, but that has its limits. If the forces that create instability are too large for the stabiliser to handle, i.e. the they overcome the stiffness threshold of the stabiliser, then a frictional stabiliser will no longer offer any protection and the sway becomes uncontrollable unless some form of further action is taken.

A combination of a frictional and an electronic one is therefore ideal.

 

[Guest]

The electronic caravan stability units still expect you to load the caravan correctly. What concerns me is that we'll have some muppets throwing the load in the van willy nilly and relying on the electronics to sort the problems. I guees this could lead to overheating caravan brakes and excessive wear.

Our cars like many others now come with trailer stability progamming, so I see no point in paying for it on a caravan. What use would a second system be?

 

[Lutz]

The LEAS electronic stabiliser has an audible warning buzzer that goes off when the system deploys (very much like the seat belt warning buzzer that is fitted to many cars, but a lot louder). It it therefore unlikely that one will tow a poorly laden caravan for very long with a constant shrill reminder that the outfit is potentially unstable. In addition, the LEAS system has an optional brake lining temperature sensor monitoring brake fade and this is also linked to the same warning buzzer in the car. (Earlier models, including mine, had this feature as standard, but it was deleted for cost reasons and to make installation of the system easier as a d-i-y job and because the competition, i.e. AlKo, doesn't have it, either).

 

[Chrisbee]

I have an alko hitch friction stabiliser and ATC. The ATC has only operated once in two years, as I was returning from the dealer with my new 'van. When I turned right at a mini roundabout the left into the roundabout followed by the sudden right and the left as I exited was enough to operate it. You can definately feel the pull on the rear of the tug from the 'van brakes. If it was operating often on a straight road I would know it without the need for a warning light or buzzer.

 

[AnthonyNornIreland]

Surely if your loaded correctly, and not driving hard, you should not need any extra devices.

I was towing my 2008 jubilee courier, loaded as instructed, at 50mph on a dual carriage way when the van infront, towing a trailer loaded with aliminium scaffold, lost some poles, I swerved to avoid the poles, and the van?car were more than capable of handling this sudden manouver.

 

[John_miller]

Couldn't agree more Chrisbee. My Bailey has the AlKo hitch and I had the ATC unit fitted at Southam last year - I knew it was working within 30 minutes of setting off home when I did a similar thing to you and drove enthusiastically around a large roundabout just before I joined the M1. I felt the short sharp tug from the rear and realised that the ATC had cut in. I've never had any instability problems with my Bailey, but I regard ATC as just a bit more insurnace and well worth the money if you can possibly afford it. I think that eventually they will fit this to all new caravans, rather like anti-lock braking for cars.

John M

 

[Lutz]

By the same argument one could say that if you drive with foresight and due care you wouldn't need seat belts, ABS brakes, airbags, etc., etc. Unfortunately, things aren't quite as simple as that and even the best of us make mistakes.

 

[Martin_E]

The LEAS (Lubs Electronic Trailer Stabiliser) comprises a spring actuator with actuating motor, the corresponding sensing control, and electronic control unit (ECU). The spring actuator and actuating motor are attached by means of two U-bolts to the front of the A-frame of the trailer. The cable at the end of the spring actuator is clamped under slight tension to the main brake rod of the trailer. The actuating motor is enclosed in a protective housing. The ECU is installed transversely and as far rearward as possible either inside or outside the trailer. It is connected to the actuating motor by means of an electric cable. Supplied is a buzzer(5) to be fitted in the tow vehicle. It emits a continuous buzz when the system has deployed and the trailer brake is applied so alerting the driver.

Power is supplied by the towing vehicle. The sensor unit (ECU) continuously monitors the dynamic stability of the trailer. As soon as the trailer becomes unstable (i.e. snaking occurs) the electronic control unit gives a signal to the actuating motor to release the spring and thus activate the braking system of the trailer (with 20% of its full braking performance). The car/trailer combination is stretched and reverts to a stable condition. The acoustic warning signal ensures that the driver knows that the braking system has been deployed by the LEAS unit.

After snaking has been brought under control, a cam on the actuator is rotated back into its stand-by position by means of the electric motor and this reloads the spring ready for further use. The process is then complete. The LEAS system is unable to work if the brakes of the trailer have faded. It is then inoperative.

 

[Lutz]

"The LEAS system is unable to work if the brakes of the trailer have faded. It is then inoperative."

The same goes for any electronic stabiliser, not only the LEAS system. It applies equally to AlKo's ATC and BPW's IDC. That is why the LEAS system used to have a brake shoe temperature sensor as standard. However, as the competition does not have this feature and it requires an expert to install the sensor properly, it was dropped as part of the kit, at the same time allowing a corresponding reduction in price. One can still have the sensor as an optional extra, though.

However, any brake fade, whether an electronic stabiliser is fitted or not, is a potential safety hazard. The stabiliser itself will not cause brake fade, though, as it remains operative for never more than a few seconds. This is far too short a time period to result in brake fade. Brake fade is much more likely to occur on long downhill stretches where the caravan is effectively pushing the towcar.

 

[CameronBurns]

Yes the ATC system works well and maybe better than a traditional stabiliser but, there are a few other things i didn't mention about the stabiliser bar. Firstly if the stabiliser isn't stopping the caravan from swaying then it can be adjusted to make it tighter and secondly due to the fact that you lift the bar from the car onto the caravan you get negative uplift, meaning that your noseweight is reduced by up to 15kg. I'm not saying overload the caravan, but a lighter load on the hitch will have some affect of the likelihood of a 'snake' occuring. We've gad stabilisers on all of our previous caravans and noticed the differance immediatly with just an alko stabiliser hitch. And with a stabiliser bar being

 

[Lutz]

You say, ".... if the stabiliser isn't stopping the caravan from swaying then it can be adjusted to make it tighter ....". That is only true to a limited extent. In order to prevent forces from exceeding the durability constraints of towbars, vehicle underbodies and maybe even the caravan chassis, too, industry standards limit the torque that a frictional or viscous stabiliser may exert on the system to 300Nm. Consequently, if the loads that occur during instability become so strong that they exceed 300Nm at the joint between car and caravan, the stabiliser will no longer be able prevent sway.

This is also one reason why one should never combine a bar stabiliser with one that is integrated in the hitch.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

Yes the ATC system works well and maybe better than a traditional stabiliser but, there are a few other things i didn't mention about the stabiliser bar. Firstly if the stabiliser isn't stopping the caravan from swaying then it can be adjusted to make it tighter and secondly due to the fact that you lift the bar from the car onto the caravan you get negative uplift, meaning that your noseweight is reduced by up to 15kg. I'm not saying overload the caravan, but a lighter load on the hitch will have some affect of the likelihood of a 'snake' occuring. We've gad stabilisers on all of our previous caravans and noticed the differance immediatly with just an alko stabiliser hitch. And with a stabiliser bar being

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

lets not get carried away here please, some of us dont have the resorces to fit or need to fit some expensive bit of kit to a van in order to be able to go to the coast for a weekend, systems like the alko ATC and the LEAS do have a role however for those caravanners who have new vans. new cars, and the money to pay for it, or the ones who dont want to be bothered getting their hands dirty fitting some manual device every time they want to tow the van.

if you fit into this catagory fine have the system and enjoy, but for some of us it is an extravigance we can do without, a bit like fitting a

 

[Lutz]

Fair comment. However, nobody is saying that you MUST have an AlKo ATC or equivalent. All that is being said is that if you want the best possible protection, you've got to dig deep into your pocket because a bar stabiliser can't do what an electronic stabiliser can. It would be a shame if it did because then the electronic system would be massively overpriced. Conversely, lots of people tow or have towed for years quite safely without any form of stabiliser. You get the level of protection that you pay for.

 

[Zafiral]

FYI, Alko recommend fitting ATC in addition to , not instead of a (manual) stabiliser.

I agree that there may be more of a need for ATC etc on more modern (ie heavier) vans so Colin we may all be correct here.

Us newbies who have had ABS etc for most of our driving life may be more aprehensive of towing without all the available safety items possible.

But in answer to 'a bar stabiliser has been fine for 40 years' roads now are much busier than they were perhaps making the emergency manoevere when you are glad of all the possible safety devices more of a probability rather than a possibility.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all.

yes fair comments also, for those that want the new systems go ahead enjoy the peace of mind but remember this they are electronic devices, afterall and can fail, but with the manual bar it is there to do a job one that it has been doing for 40 years reliably.

with electronics there is much more that can go wrong so invariably will go wrong however you will not know untill it is required but then doesn't work?

an example of this could be drawn from the good old diesel engine, the old diesels had,

A manual belt driven DPA pump,

mechanical injectors

heater plugs,

heater plug relay

and thats all, the one I owned had covered 237000 miles in total and never gave a minutes bother.

the new ones (modern type) are all electonic controlled by an ECU with a sensor on everything from TDC to air flow, any one of which will (and frequently does) bring the whole engine to a standstill. yes they are cleaner, more powerfull, and fuel efficient but at what cost, they are more expesive to produce and to maintain, like

 

[Guest]

For sentimental reasons I have an old two old Radio's at home in France. Both belonged to my parents, one is a huge polishe wooden outfit with valves from theearly 50's and the other a 1960's portable Bush with SW for listening to the BBC World Weeeeeeeee Service.

Now the are great pieces of kit but they don't make music sound like the radio on my phone and no where near as good as my Ipod sounds.

They may not last as long, but I like the refinements of modern life. And if they keep me and others safer and alive a little longer I'm all for them.

Both our tow cars have Trailer Stability in built, if all cars were fitted with it we would all be a lot safer and at least cars get serviced and tested for road worthiness more so than many caravans.

 

[Lutz]

Most modern electronic systems go through a systems check cycle before you move off, so you are warned should they have failed for any reason. It is still left for you to decide to continue your journey despite the warning, but they don't automatically shut everything down and immobilise the car.

Systems which are vital to get the car moving often have a back-up, too, so chances of being marooned in the middle of nowhere due to something seriously wrong with the electronics is really no more than in the old days before cars got so sophisticated.