Reviews of caravans

[Buckman]

Have you noticed that when a caravan is reviewed, one of the things the presenter points out is the huge amount of lockers, drawers etc and all the room in them to store stuff. However most caravans seem to have a payload around 160kg so by the time you have added on a motor mover it is a lot less.
If you go around filling all the lockers and drawers you will probably be seriously over weight. In addition, if you leave heavy articles in the top lockers or the chest of drawers in front, surely this may cause stability issues?
What is the point of all the lockers if you cannot use them. On our caravan at least three of the lockers were empty even when on site. When travelling we remove all items from the over head lockers.
I think that maybe presenters should concentrate on the more important aspects of the caravan like comfort of seats and mattress, safety devices, alarms, trackers etc.

 

[otherclive]

I agree with you, and that is why we tend to carry a lot of our stuff in crates/holdall is the car. On site we then have lots of stowages to put stuff without getting them too over crowded. So they are useful, but not for anything other than light kit when towing. Pots pans, and kitchen stuff stay in the van most other stuff comes out and is re-loaded depending on how long trip we are taking and what time of year it is.

 

[ProfJohnL]

...or the chest of drawers in front, surely this may cause stability issues?...

Weight in the front draws is unlikely to cause an instability problem

 

[Anseo]

I can see where Buckman is coming from on this, the amount of overhead storage space on the Bailey GT65 Ancona is really voluminous, not knocking it per-se, but it is rather over-kill.

The abundance of lockers does make it so much easier to find things though, teaspoons in that one, forks in that one etc.

Mrs Anseo brings way to much stuff along, but even if she brought her entire collection of knickers ( 2 pairs), I doubt she would accommodate more than 2 compartments :lol: .

Continuous and connected lockerscabinets are, I understand, integral to the overall structureintegrity of the 'box', but perhaps a more innovative use awaits for designers to make use of.

 

[Buckman]

...or the chest of drawers in front, surely this may cause stability issues?...

Weight in the front draws is unlikely to cause an instability problem

What makes you think it will not cause instability if the drawers are loaded to the hilt thus increasing the nose weight beyond the capacity of the car. IMHO if the nose weight of the caravan pushes down on the rear of the towing vehicle, this then lifts the front of the car and this can cause instability issues.

 

[Dustydog]

...or the chest of drawers in front, surely this may cause stability issues?...

Weight in the front draws is unlikely to cause an instability problem

Fully agree with the Prof.
Our front drawers contain papers and minor light weight things and are still pretty low down regarding getting C of G.
I can honestly say in xxx years of tugging my drawers haven't caused any issues.

 

[Buckman]

...or the chest of drawers in front, surely this may cause stability issues?...

Weight in the front draws is unlikely to cause an instability problem

Fully agree with the Prof.
Our front drawers contain papers and minor light weight things and are still pretty low down regarding getting C of G.
I can honestly say in xxx years of tugging my drawers haven't caused any issues.

I think you are missing the point. A presenter wil probably mention the size of the drawers and the volume it can hold. To a newbie this may be mean filling the drawers to the brim thus increasing the nose weight. My PO was about the emphasis that presenters put on number of lockers and drawers the available payload is probably less than a 120kg if you take into account weight of battery and motor mover so what is the point of all the over hear lockers and huge drawers?

 

[Martin24]

Which is why there are guides produced by the likes of Practical caravan on loading your caravan weight appropriately.

Many caravan manufacturers offer the ability to upgrade the payload quite significantly, for example on our caravan the increase was 105Kg. The chassis type will determine how much the increase would be.

The reason behind the lower initial weight is simply to attract sales from people with a smaller car and/or without B+E entitlement.

Without the upgrade if you fill everything to the brim with heavy equipment then of course you will go over but sensible loading of everything will see you with everything being absolutely fine.

Caravans today don't have anymore cupboards than the caravans of my childhood in the 70's and 80's so there has always been this issue.

A rear wardrobe full of outdoor clothing or a rear fixed bed with a full and heavy under bed storage area will cause you more issues with instability than the contents of a chest of drawers in the front.

At the end of the day just because the cupboard is there you don't have to fill it with heavy items or at all.

Hope this helps

 

[Buckman]

Which is why there are guides produced by the likes of Practical caravan on loading your caravan weight appropriately.

Many caravan manufacturers offer the ability to upgrade the payload quite significantly, for example on our caravan the increase was 105Kg. The chassis type will determine how much the increase would be.

The reason behind the lower initial weight is simply to attract sales from people with a smaller car and/or without B+E entitlement.

Without the upgrade if you fill everything to the brim with heavy equipment then of course you will go over but sensible loading of everything will see you with everything being absolutely fine.

Caravans today don't have anymore cupboards than the caravans of my childhood in the 70's and 80's so there has always been this issue.

A rear wardrobe full of outdoor clothing or a rear fixed bed with a full and heavy under bed storage area will cause you more issues with instability than the contents of a chest of drawers in the front.

At the end of the day just because the cupboard is there you don't have to fill it with heavy items or at all.

Hope this helps

A good explanation but not sure what it has to do with the OP?

 

[RayS]

The modern design with front winow extending up into the roof eliminates the lockers which traditionally ran across the top of the front window. At the same time the depth of the side lockers at the front seems to have been reduced, presumably to give the living space an even more open and airy feel. In this objective designers have perhaps succeeded but with serios reduction in volume of storage.
For example my 17 inch laptop fitted flat on the floor of the top side locker of a previous caravan. Now is has to be stood on edge and held in with added fixings.
While it seems many owners are happy with tthe changes those of us who make long stay visits eg to Spain in Spring, need every last cubic centimeter of space as ( most of us being of a certain age) we need to accommodate medicines, some medical devices, vitamin suppliments etc. Not easily obtainable at our destinations. Plus leaving in winter but lhopefully spending the stay in the sun, both winter and summer clothing and bedding have to beconsidered.
Obviously we get round these problems with experience, but it would be helpful if designers considered the layout of storage and fittings more carefullu. The entire space under one front seat of amy new caravan is occupied by combi wTer and slace heaters, battery box, electrical charger and fuse unit, mover control unit and alarm. With a little thought this locker could have had 25 to 40% useable storage space.
How many designers actually have experience of living in a caravan and how many have active sysrems by which users can give feedback and comment on such issues ?

 

[ProfJohnL]

...What makes you think it will not cause instability if the drawers are loaded to the hilt thus increasing the nose weight beyond the capacity of the car. IMHO if the nose weight of the caravan pushes down on the rear of the towing vehicle, this then lifts the front of the car and this can cause instability issues.

As usual I am being pedantic but factually you are wrong for this statement.

...or the chest of drawers in front, surely this may cause stability issues?...

The weight of the draws and their content will be virtually central to the width of the caravan and forward of the axle, so any weight will only add to the nose load, not reduce it. It is widely accepted that an increased nose load aids stability not detracts from it. As for the subsequent condition that you suggest of the additional load being enough to unload the tow vehicles front axle, well it just proves that if it were able to do that, the driver has not loaded the caravan correctly to ensure the actual nose load is within limits.

I would actually suspect that you could not put enough items in the front draws without them collapsing to make it impossible to set a correct nose load by readusting the load of other normal caravanners items

 

[alan29]

Weight is only an issue when travelling.
Who on earth stuffs the overhead lockers when on the road?

 

[DaveA1]

Weight is only an issue when travelling.
Who on earth stuffs the overhead lockers when on the road?

Exactly! I load the car, all heavy items travel in the boot of the car. Load cupboards when on site.
Use wheel clamp ect and SWMBOs handbag to adjust nose weight, heaviest thing we carry :silly: :silly:

 

[Buckman]

How many designers actually have experience of living in a caravan and how many have active sysrems by which users can give feedback and comment on such issues ?

The same can be asked of people writing reviews on caravans. How many have used the caravan for a few days before writing the review. Probably NONE!

 

[Raywood]

I am not sure that the mention of overhead lockers is stated as a lot more than a fact as the number is relevant to a review. Filling them with heavy items would be time consuming and difficult so most of the time the problem is unlikely to occur. The people who get it wrong and have a problem have not done their homework, so a warning in the reviews is unlikely to make any difference. The people reading the reviews are usually more experienced and will know the dangers, although in some caravan reviews a warning not to overdo it would not go amiss.
We have more overhead lockers than we can fill even on longer trips so they are not a potential problem for us. The front lockers are out of the way when you sleep at the back so get only a few light items and the chest has only two very shallow drawers which would neither hold or support enough things to seriously affect the nose weight even if we did try. The design is near standard so I doubt they are a problem generally..

 

[SamandRose]

In one respect I think the OP has a point. The trouble is that a lot of the reviews on this website and in the magazine are described as 'first looks' and whilst I don't know how long a look the journalists get, I'm guessing it's hours rather than days. And in that time it's possible to work out almost nothing. For sure, you can say how big the shower is and how many cupboards its got, but to be able to say how much stuff the cupboards hold or how comfortable the caravan is, you'd need to spend a few nights sleeping in it.

It's a bit like taking a car for a test drive. If I may bore you all once again with the example of the Passat estate. When the latest model came out in 2015 all of the motoring magazines jumped on the fact that it has a bigger boot than the previous model - up from 603 to 650 litres, no less - but what none of them (nor I, initially) noticed was that's been achieved by robbing some space out of the door pockets, glove box and space between the passenger seat at the front. There's no way you can reasonably notice that just by driving the car rather than living with it. But when I first started living with it, it was annoying.

One thing I do think that reviews could look at more critically is the size of a caravan versus its payload. Take the Bailey Unicorn Cadiz at the top of the reviews page. Fixed twin beds, over 7m long and with a 150kg payload? You'd better make sure that you only load that huge fridge after you've arrived on site and not before leaving home. And if the caravan can be 'replated' to allow a higher MTPLM, I'm sorry but why don't they do that in the first place?

 

[ProfJohnL]

... And if the caravan can be 'replated' to allow a higher MTPLM, I'm sorry but why don't they do that in the first place?

Many caravan manufacturers in common with many other industries are theri principally to make money, and anything that will increase their market share will be used. In this case its making their products accessible to more customers.

You can be sure the caravan manufacturers will have sought information about their probable customer, and in particular about the type of car they will have. With that in mind they will also be aware of the industry wide guidance on weight matching between car and caravan. Many caravanners will want to keep within the guidelines, which base their assessment on kerb weights and MTPLM'S. Caravan manufactures cannot do anything about kerb weights but they can adjust their MTPLMs downwards to apparently make their caravan compatible with a wider range of cars. That why the down grade some of their models.

 

[otherclive]

... And if the caravan can be 'replated' to allow a higher MTPLM, I'm sorry but why don't they do that in the first place?

Many caravan manufacturers in common with many other industries are theri principally to make money, and anything that will increase their market share will be used. In this case its making their products accessible to more customers.

You can be sure the caravan manufacturers will have sought information about their probable customer, and in particular about the type of car they will have. With that in mind they will also be aware of the industry wide guidance on weight matching between car and caravan. Many caravanners will want to keep within the guidelines, which base their assessment on kerb weights and MTPLM'S. Caravan manufactures cannot do anything about kerb weights but they can adjust their MTPLMs downwards to apparently make their caravan compatible with a wider range of cars. That why the down grade some of their models.

Agreed and that is why my wife commented recently that you see more caravaners using roof boxes even though it may only be a couple out touring. The car is taking the extra payload. But as I found out with my Forester and its roof box there are places that have height restrictions which I couldn't visit.

 

[Craigyoung]

Hi
Like dusty says , only thing we keep in our drawers are few papers couple of pens and the phone chargers nothing of great weight stays in there I know if we wanted to take the drawers out before we got the caravan it would cost £150 hmy: or so to get them removed!!
Craig

 

[Raywood]

Hi
Like dusty says , only thing we keep in our drawers are few papers couple of pens and the phone chargers nothing of great weight stays in there I know if we wanted to take the drawers out before we got the caravan it would cost £150 hmy: or so to get them removed!!
Craig

With our Lunar you can remove the front chest if you want. It simply sits on the base and the caravan can be used without it.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi
Like dusty says , only thing we keep in our drawers are few papers couple of pens and the phone chargers nothing of great weight stays in there I know if we wanted to take the drawers out before we got the caravan it would cost £150 hmy: or so to get them removed!!
Craig

With our Lunar you can remove the front chest if you want. It simply sits on the base and the caravan can be used without it.

But then you have to use the on board foldaway table every time you want a drink or meal :woohoo:

 

[Craigyoung]

Dusty , our on board folding table as as you put it is up in the loft after we got the caravan back home , that is just extra weight I don't intend to carry! We normaly eat in the awning or at the back table , I know not everyone has a twin dinette though.

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

We have a 2 berth van and use the front chest with pull out flap for dining. The fold up table is used in the porch awning, it saves carrying an extra table, as the fold up has its own storage whilst travelling.

 

[GD485]

What I would like to see when reading caravan (and tow car) reviews is the towing behaviour when the tow car matching ratio is 100%.
As car manufacturers are reducing weights and caravans seem to remain stubbornly heavy caravanners will need to consider 85% as an out dated guide
There have been numerous technical advancements in vehicle stability that makes the guide figure a bit of a dinosaur.

 

[ProfJohnL]

What I would like to see when reading caravan (and tow car) reviews is the towing behaviour when the tow car matching ratio is 100%.
As car manufacturers are reducing weights and caravans seem to remain stubbornly heavy caravanners will need to consider 85% as an out dated guide
There have been numerous technical advancements in vehicle stability that makes the guide figure a bit of a dinosaur.

I do agree and have frequently stated teh industry guidance is out dated, but the problem is finding a sensible alternative method for guiding drivers towards a good and hopefully safe match between car and caravan.
Whilst I suggest a change in the method, I don't presume it will automatically increase the recommended trailer weights, after all there are plenty of road incidents involving caravans which presumably are already operating at 85% or less, so this suggest if we are looking to improve safety, perhaps the guidance should be lowered further.

But I also believe greater emphasis should be placed on other factors that affect towing safety, such as how to load the caravan, nose load, condition of the car and caravan such as brakes and suspension and arguably the most significant factor is the ability and competence of the driver.