Safer nose weight measurment

[ProfJohnL]

I have written extensively about the measurement of nose weight and in particular about the importance of getting the nose height set accurately.

In the absence of a weigh-bridge the only other accurate solution has been to suggest using bathroom scales with a stick. I have always had safety reservations about this method and the strong possibility the hitch may move during measurement and force the stick out, a point that at least one other contributor has made from personal experience, so an alternative and safer method needs to be found.

Well trust the Americans, and its so obvious. I found a suggestion on an RV web site. Rather that trying to balance the stick on the scales, raise the scales on a solid support to bring them up to the right height, and rest the hitch on the scale bed. This has the added advantage of removing the weight of any stick and spreader bar from the reading the scales gives.

I recognise this is not a practical solution for when you are on your holiday, but it does give you a fairly accurate and safer measurement system for when setting out.

 

[JohnGriffiths]

Thanks John, I've just checked and my caravan steps are just about the right height, so that should do nicely providing the scales fit OK without sliding and the steps are sufficiently strong.

 

[paws]

Good idea about the steps John, I'm just off to measure mine.....
There should be no problem with their weight carrying abilities......I try to get as close to 75kg noseweight as I can with my outfit.... and in "old money" that's just a tad under 12 stone.....
so every time I use my caravan steps. I "proof test" them,...and with a bit of a safety factor as well!
Regards
paws

 

[ProfJohnL]

If you are lucky the steps may provide a pretty close solution, and you have them each time you are about to tow the caravan. There should be no loading issue on the steps, they shoudl be good for twenty stone or (130Kg) You could use a few sheets of old newspaper to protect the scales bed from any detrious on the hitch. Aim to get a minimum of 350mm from floor to top of scales or as close as you can to the normal towing height of the hitch.
Matching the towing height is very important for TA's

It also means you could take the scales with you, just imagine the fun of using the scales as the balast to offset the nose weight, and you also have the benefit of being able to check you've been keeping to that all important diet, so you don't overload the drivers seat

 

[otherclive]

Oops wrong thread

 

[GeorgeandAde]

I have found the bathroom scales and piece of wood to be the most accurate(just my own opinion).
As for safety and the risk of the wood "toppling over"......I always lower the front corner steadies a little before I start so if the wood did slip,the corner steadies are at a sufficient height to stop the van falling.

 

[Surfer]

The most accurate way is as per Mel's post and forget all the rest of the nonsense;

OK Martin, I'll take the flak.
I will share with you what I have learned about measuring noseweight from this forum;
Any gauge you buy is not accurate.
Any measurement taken on ground that is not as flat as a billiard table is not accurate.
Any measurement taken that is not at exactly the same height as the towball is not accurate
Any measurement taken anywhere except at the right spot on the tow hitch is not accurate.
Any measurement taken if you have a twin axle is not accurate.
Any measurement taken when stationery is different when towing,due to dynamic forces, and so is not accurate.
Any measurement taken will change if a tin of cassoulet rolls forward while towing, and so is not accurate.

Hence buy a reasonably good gauge, measure on flattish ground and say "thats good enough".
mel

 

[ProfJohnL]

As for safety and the risk of the wood "toppling over"......I always lower the front corner steadies a little before I start so if the wood did slip,the corner steadies are at a sufficient height to stop the van falling.

Hello GeorgeandAde,
The caravan falling is of course a serious hazard, and your idea of setting the steadies (or even the jockey wheel) to catch the nose if it did fall is good, but the other hazard is the stick you use to support the hitch may slip out. The nose weight of 75Kg or there abouts will be enough to propel the stick with quite some vigiour. I could imagine if not broken, a severrly bruised shin or arm.
I think it was Steve in Leo who reported such an incident.
If your steps are good for the height, then its probably easier to use them and far safer than fiddling with a stick, one person can now easily do the check.
If the setps are a little low, then you could always use a few copies of PC magazine to make up the height on the step and put the scales on top.

 

[Sedo]

Just as a matter of interest, can someone please tell why all of a sudden bathroom scales are benchmark accurate.
If I remember rightly when I've read some tests carried out they're about as reliable as tyre pressure gauges.
I personally agree with getting a decent gauge and level ground and hey presto, might be the last resort of the technically bankrupt but works for me.
At least I've got a noseweight.

 

[Surfer]

Bathroom scales are as about accurate as a guesstimate and many women wil agree with this. Unless very high tech most bathroom scales are inaccurate by a few kgs. Known and tested fact. Just read the Which website and others. If you are few kgs out, so what and who cares as it will make hardly any difference, however if if were several kgs then yes you may have a issue but it all depends on the towiing vehicle and the trailer.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Sedo,

No weighing system is 100% accurate, and even those that are calibrated against national standards are only as good as the calibration systems allows.

However I have greater confidence in a set of bathroom scales for nose weight measurement for two reasons.

The first is it is possible to provide a method of calibration which may not be of laboratory standard, but it sould be able to define the inaccuracy of the scales to within about +/-2Kg.

And Secondly that that compared to any of the mechanical nose weight gauge, the graduations on the bathroom scales are more easily defined and read than the coarse graduations on the nose weight gauges I have seen and considered.

The digital nose weight gauges that are available may resolve to 1Kg, but because they change the hitch height they introduce other inaccuracies which is significant concern.

 

[Martin24]

We check our scales accuracy against Swmbo work scales when they are calibrated so we know how far out they are and if yet again another week has gone by without losing any weight. Think I'll stick to my unscientific and highly disregarded unscientific ways of measuring. Loading up time now ready for the off in the morning.

 

[otherclive]

We use the bathroom scales for airline and ship check in and up to 30 kg they never disagree with the check in scales by more than 1 kg. I guess it comes down to the quality of scales that you purchase. when I bought a milenco calibrated gauge I used a 60 litre water container (60kg when full plus container weight) and the Milenco was within 2kg as I could read it. Therefore I reckon if I load the noseweight to 80-85kg by the milenco I am not going to overload exceed the cars spec. With this arrangement it feels smooth and jiggle free. When I checked once with scales I also used the van steps and adjust height using cheap poly propylene chopping boards from Poundland. The bigger sizes are good for taking the sidelift jack plinth when on field surfaces or when I put winter wheels on at it's storage site.

 

[Surfer]

The digital nose weight gauges that are available may resolve to 1Kg, but because they change the hitch height they introduce other inaccuracies which is significant concern.

Until you have scientific evidence or facts to prove the contrary I suggest you edit and withdraw the above comment as it is totally incorrect and false. You have never used a digital noseweight and probably do not know how it operates, but you are quite willing to make fanciful statements and suggest that it is not as accurate as your antiquated way of using inaccurate bathroom scales and piece of stick.

 

[seth1]

I find this quite funny how such a big thing is made of nose wieght and measuring it.Its only a caravan not a nuclear bomb in tow.I dont mind admitting my previous car was always 25kg over on its nose wieght.In 5 years of ownership never had a single problem at speeds up to 85mph abroad.Probably seen as dangerous in some peoples eyes but hey ho.My latest van has been measured once when i took delievery of it and thats it.Never gets loaded different so why should it change?There seems to be a large amount of caravans on uk roads now,and in relation to the amount very little accidents,but i wounder what percentage of the accidents is down to incorrect nose wieghts?

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

I find this quite funny how such a big thing is made of nose wieght and measuring it.Its only a caravan not a nuclear bomb in tow.I dont mind admitting my previous car was always 25kg over on its nose wieght.In 5 years of ownership never had a single problem at speeds up to 85mph abroad.Probably seen as dangerous in some peoples eyes but hey ho.My latest van has been measured once when i took delievery of it and thats it.Never gets loaded different so why should it change?There seems to be a large amount of caravans on uk roads now,and in relation to the amount very little accidents,but i wounder what percentage of the accidents is down to incorrect nose wieghts?

hi seth I totally agree and while Mel's comment was quite humorus it is totally accrurate no method that joe public is likely to use will be spot on, but there is no reason it should cause a problem as long as any mesurement is aimed at a few kg below the maximum.
while it is true that weights and measures are important sometimes they are over emphsised a bit,

 

[hortimech]

Hi, have just been reading this topic and a thought has occurred to me, How accurate is this method? Basically nose weight is the transfer of weight from the caravan to the towing vehicle, the transfer point would be the top of the inside of the tow hitch to the top of the tow ball. So, if you use the bathroom scales on a platform method, are you not 50mm out? and if you are, just how accurate is this method?

Another thought I had (yes I know, I have got to stop thinking), wouldn't the makers of the gauge that fits onto the tow ball have realised that the measurement given would be out and electronically recalculated the displayed weight taking into count the height difference?

Perhaps the magazine could test the various ways of calculating nose weight and come up with the most accurate and safest way of doing it.

 

[Parksy]

I find this quite funny how such a big thing is made of nose wieght and measuring it.Its only a caravan not a nuclear bomb in tow.I dont mind admitting my previous car was always 25kg over on its nose wieght.In 5 years of ownership never had a single problem at speeds up to 85mph abroad.Probably seen as dangerous in some peoples eyes but hey ho.My latest van has been measured once when i took delievery of it and thats it.Never gets loaded different so why should it change?There seems to be a large amount of caravans on uk roads now,and in relation to the amount very little accidents,but i wounder what percentage of the accidents is down to incorrect nose wieghts?

Spot on!
In over 12 years of regular caravanning I've yet to spot anybody about to leave a campsite or rally field measuring the noseweight of their caravan using bathroom scales, noseweight gauges or any other method that anyone would care to name.
It just doesn't happen.
I've never read of accidents caused by excessive noseweight on a touring caravan, although I suspect that some caravan accidents resulting from instability have resulted from too little noseweight.
Whilst it's important to recognise and to do ones best to adhere to noseweight limits set by manufacturers, in the real world it's impossible for an ordinary caravan owner to set the noseweight to a degree of 100% accuracy using commonly available equipment so there's no point in getting anal about it.
It's more important not to overload the caravan, this can be checked using a public weighbridge and overloading can have a real bearing on towing safety and stability.
I've read about prosecutions arising from caravans being overloaded but never from excessive noseweight on it's own.