If you are interested in saving the Badger see this and sign the petition.
http://www.teambadger.org/team.html
http://www.teambadger.org/team.html
Save our Badgers!
- Thread starter Dustydog
- Start date
What annoys us is when people have been culling them and then lay them out all along the road to make it look like they're roadkill. Far too many along the atlantic highway at Easter for them all to have met their demise to the traffic!! It'll be interesting to see if still going on along there at half term.
Parksy
Moderator
Surely they don't bring in a cull on a whim? I've heard farmers and various people moaning about the badger problem for many years. Is it not a trial cull at the moment?
If farmers are losing animals because of Bovine TB should we not be supporting the trial and research?
If farmers are losing animals because of Bovine TB should we not be supporting the trial and research?
Don't wind me up!!
There's no scientific evidence at all that places the blame wholly and soley on the badger. Foxes, rats ,monkjacs etc are also part of the Bovine TB chain.
What is needed is vaccine.
When we were kids we had the BCG to guard against TB.
How come there isn't one for Bovine TB??
There's no scientific evidence at all that places the blame wholly and soley on the badger. Foxes, rats ,monkjacs etc are also part of the Bovine TB chain.
What is needed is vaccine.
When we were kids we had the BCG to guard against TB.
How come there isn't one for Bovine TB??
Dustydog said:
It also winds some people up when people jump on the anti hunting and culling band wagon's. How many signatories to many countryside and farming petitions are townies who have little knowledge of farming and countryside issues.
Farmer's are under enough pressure, is there actually a working Bovine TB vaccine and is a trial cull just done on a whim? I think not.
Morning Gybe
I spent a lot of my youth on my uncle's farm. I've lived in the country since 1974 and always had working dogs.
I accept there are always two sides to any arguement but a cull of this magnitude seems out of proportion especially when a lot of teh murdered badgers will be TB free.
As far as I know farmers are compensated for lost cattle by the Government so in theory they should remain cash neutral.
I spent a lot of my youth on my uncle's farm. I've lived in the country since 1974 and always had working dogs.
I accept there are always two sides to any arguement but a cull of this magnitude seems out of proportion especially when a lot of teh murdered badgers will be TB free.
As far as I know farmers are compensated for lost cattle by the Government so in theory they should remain cash neutral.
Dustydog said:
You cannot "Murder" an animal, It's emotive language like that that stirs up ill feeling on both sides of the argument.
Steve W
Damian
Moderator
The propsed cull of Badgers is just a knee jerk reaction to a long standing problem, or percieved problem.
There has NEVER been a fully provable fact that Badgers spread TB to cattle, nor has there been a provable fact that cattle spread it to Badgers.
The fact that both can suffer from it is co incidental.
The "Free Shooting" Cull will have more impact than just those shot, there will be young which are left without their food provider and starve to death in setts, amongst other things.
Culling was tried in the past and failed and this "trial" cull will have the same result.
Bovine TB is limited to "Hot Spots" in the UK, it is not present in every location, which must raise the question as to if it is Badgers spreading the virus, why is it not present outside the "Hot Spot" areas, as Badgers have a foraging range of many miles and when old enough, young have to move out and establish their own "territory"
I look after a number of setts in various locations and there is not a single case of Bovine TB although some of the setts are on farms which specialise in cattle.
There is a vaccine available for Badgers, but the cost weighed against a bullet is what is driving this latest "cull",
PS forgot to add, : The overall result which "may" be achieved by this mass cull is a mere 16% reduction in Bovine TB in the affected areas,,,,how many Badgers would be killed?????Hundreds if not thousands
Transpose that figure into cattle, if an area lost 300 cattle before the cull, the saving of cattle after would be 48,
252 would still be destroyed.
There has NEVER been a fully provable fact that Badgers spread TB to cattle, nor has there been a provable fact that cattle spread it to Badgers.
The fact that both can suffer from it is co incidental.
The "Free Shooting" Cull will have more impact than just those shot, there will be young which are left without their food provider and starve to death in setts, amongst other things.
Culling was tried in the past and failed and this "trial" cull will have the same result.
Bovine TB is limited to "Hot Spots" in the UK, it is not present in every location, which must raise the question as to if it is Badgers spreading the virus, why is it not present outside the "Hot Spot" areas, as Badgers have a foraging range of many miles and when old enough, young have to move out and establish their own "territory"
I look after a number of setts in various locations and there is not a single case of Bovine TB although some of the setts are on farms which specialise in cattle.
There is a vaccine available for Badgers, but the cost weighed against a bullet is what is driving this latest "cull",
PS forgot to add, : The overall result which "may" be achieved by this mass cull is a mere 16% reduction in Bovine TB in the affected areas,,,,how many Badgers would be killed?????Hundreds if not thousands
Transpose that figure into cattle, if an area lost 300 cattle before the cull, the saving of cattle after would be 48,
252 would still be destroyed.
Well stated, Damian. This pilot cull, initially in two areas, is the worst possible decision the government could have made. It totally ignores all the scientific evidence available that proves a cull would be useless.
As of this morning, 144,290 have signed the petition so far. There is a lot of detailed information, including maps of the two trial cull areas, by clicking on the drop-down boxes on the petition website that Dustydog posted.
Poor old Brock. This is madness in the extreme, as we will surely find out one day.
As of this morning, 144,290 have signed the petition so far. There is a lot of detailed information, including maps of the two trial cull areas, by clicking on the drop-down boxes on the petition website that Dustydog posted.
Poor old Brock. This is madness in the extreme, as we will surely find out one day.
Whatever the pro's and con's of the cull we're very reluctant to support a petition without more information and facts or put our names alongside animal rights extremists who hijack this sort of issue.
If you sign these type of animal rights petitions the extremist's who use violence(already reported on) take your name as supporting their actions.
I'm just surprised that PC allow this kind of link on the forum.
If you sign these type of animal rights petitions the extremist's who use violence(already reported on) take your name as supporting their actions.
I'm just surprised that PC allow this kind of link on the forum.
Hi Gybe
If you click on the Team Badger website that Dustydog posted on page 1 and click on Badgers, you will get a drop-down box that will give you very detailed and balanced information and facts. You don't have to sign anything at this stage, unless you select to. There is a lot of information.
I'm sure that the majority of people that have signed the petition are normal everyday folk, like we are, who are concerned that this cull is totally wrong.
If you click on the Team Badger website that Dustydog posted on page 1 and click on Badgers, you will get a drop-down box that will give you very detailed and balanced information and facts. You don't have to sign anything at this stage, unless you select to. There is a lot of information.
I'm sure that the majority of people that have signed the petition are normal everyday folk, like we are, who are concerned that this cull is totally wrong.
Gybe said:
Please tell me what kind of person should stand up for the poor badger?
Or would you rather turn a blind eye and let the cull just happen unchallenged?
Damian
Moderator
Quote " I'm just surprised that PC allow this kind of link on the forum."
Why are you surprised?
What is wrong with it?
It is in the correct section.
It is not mandating you to anything.
The link simply takes you to the actual site being talked about, so if you dont want to go there,dont click the link,,,simple.
Why are you surprised?
What is wrong with it?
It is in the correct section.
It is not mandating you to anything.
The link simply takes you to the actual site being talked about, so if you dont want to go there,dont click the link,,,simple.
Parksy
Moderator
Gybe said:
Can you name the extremists who have signed the petition Gybe, or was your statement just a sweeping generalisation with no factual basis?
No one who uses this forum is under any compunction to sign this or any other online petition. URL's or Links to online petitions allow those who, for whatever reason, may be interested to make their own decision as to whether or not to sign.
Discussion and reasonable debate is also allowed, in which members of the forum can make their views known to others.
Forum users often complain that their freedom of speech is restricted or in some ways prevented by forum moderators, and quite often it is true that some freedoms have to be curtailed because of our wider responsibilities.
Isn't it strange though, that when there are differing opinions on an issue one side often attempts to restrict the freedom of the other side to make their point.
It's fairly stated at the start to follow the link if you are interested!! If not then easy enough not to go there!! The scientific evidence clearly states that there is no significant link between badgers and TB in cattle. As with all government decissions they are either using scientific data to back up what they are wanting to do anyway OR as in this case trying to make the data fit what they want to do anyway. More to do with pacification of dairy farmers over milk prices than anything else in my opinion.
Martin24 said:
Prof Ian Boyd Chief scientific advisor and Nigel Gibbens Chief Veterinary officer for the Dept of Environment, Food and Rural affairs,
do not agree with you They published a letter in the national press giving their reasons for supporting the cull, Unless you have equal or better qualifications in this field, I know who I will take heed of.
Steve W
I'm not used to this sort of forum getting involved in political - animal rights matters. I just believed that such controversial topics were outside the remit of a hobby type forum.
If you are interested you could also look at this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/farming/9560130/Badger-cull-the-fanatics-hijacking-the-badger-cause.html
It's widely known that extremist types for various causes use the general public petitions and action groups to legitimise their behaviour. I'm happy to believe a very senior police detective with vast experience in animal rights activities.
26000 plus cattle killed off in 2011 due to TB controls with a cost of around £100 million to the tax payer.
"Leading independent scientists reviewed the Randomised Badger Culling Trials (RBCT) and agreed that culling badgers under
specific conditions can lead to a reduction of TB in cattle. The RBCT and subsequent studies have demonstrated that even if badgers
range more widely during culling, potentially spreading the disease (the "perturbation effect"), the negative effects disappear
quickly, while the benefits remain for at least six years after culling is stopped.
The pilot areas have been designed to ensure the benefits of culling outweigh any negative effects due to perturbation, including boundaries such as rivers and motorways, to stop badgers spreading TB.
The injectable vaccine is ineffective if badgers already have the disease; vaccination is required every year to ensure newborns are protected; and is extremely expensive because badgers must be trapped to be vaccinated.
Defra is investing £15.5m in vaccines over the next four years. An oral badger vaccine (which could be cheaper and easier to administer) remains some years away, while there remain significant licensing and regulatory barriers before cattle vaccines can be used.
Culling alone won't solve the problem but alongside measures such as testing and removing infected cattle and minimising contact with badgers it will make a meaningful contribution.
Professor Ian Boyd, Chief Scientific Adviser and Nigel Gibbens, Chief Veterinary Officer, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, London SW1"
.
If you are interested you could also look at this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/farming/9560130/Badger-cull-the-fanatics-hijacking-the-badger-cause.html
It's widely known that extremist types for various causes use the general public petitions and action groups to legitimise their behaviour. I'm happy to believe a very senior police detective with vast experience in animal rights activities.
26000 plus cattle killed off in 2011 due to TB controls with a cost of around £100 million to the tax payer.
"Leading independent scientists reviewed the Randomised Badger Culling Trials (RBCT) and agreed that culling badgers under
specific conditions can lead to a reduction of TB in cattle. The RBCT and subsequent studies have demonstrated that even if badgers
range more widely during culling, potentially spreading the disease (the "perturbation effect"), the negative effects disappear
quickly, while the benefits remain for at least six years after culling is stopped.
The pilot areas have been designed to ensure the benefits of culling outweigh any negative effects due to perturbation, including boundaries such as rivers and motorways, to stop badgers spreading TB.
The injectable vaccine is ineffective if badgers already have the disease; vaccination is required every year to ensure newborns are protected; and is extremely expensive because badgers must be trapped to be vaccinated.
Defra is investing £15.5m in vaccines over the next four years. An oral badger vaccine (which could be cheaper and easier to administer) remains some years away, while there remain significant licensing and regulatory barriers before cattle vaccines can be used.
Culling alone won't solve the problem but alongside measures such as testing and removing infected cattle and minimising contact with badgers it will make a meaningful contribution.
Professor Ian Boyd, Chief Scientific Adviser and Nigel Gibbens, Chief Veterinary Officer, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, London SW1"
.
Steve and Gybe
Not once have I have or anyone else on here suggested or coerced any person signs the petition. Not once have we gone to the depths you have to support a view one way or the other.
Clearly you guys are ardent supporters of the cull and hopefuly sleep easy at night.
Please don't insult our inteligence with garbage from Government Civil Servants who quite frankly are not the super human gurus you seem to think.
Just look at the fiasco caused at DfT over the West Coast Main Line rail route franchise. Good job there's people like Branson to fight these oafs.
Do I smell another U TURN on the horizon
Maybe you should start your own URL "Cull The Badger"
Not once have I have or anyone else on here suggested or coerced any person signs the petition. Not once have we gone to the depths you have to support a view one way or the other.
Clearly you guys are ardent supporters of the cull and hopefuly sleep easy at night.
Please don't insult our inteligence with garbage from Government Civil Servants who quite frankly are not the super human gurus you seem to think.
Just look at the fiasco caused at DfT over the West Coast Main Line rail route franchise. Good job there's people like Branson to fight these oafs.
Do I smell another U TURN on the horizon
Maybe you should start your own URL "Cull The Badger"
Parksy
Moderator
You are quite right Gybe, this forum tries to keep it's distance from political matters.Gybe said:
I'd agree that the topic could be regarded as controversial but many touring caravan owners who use this forum live in the countryside and most of us visit the countryside fairly regularly and have every right to make known our thoughts on this matter one way or the other.
This is why the proposed badger cull may be of interest to members of this forum who are free to either sign or not sign the petition as they wish.
I don't readily accept that extremists use such petitions as a means of legitimising their extremism however, and to claim that this is so without actually providing any proof in order to support your viewpoint is simply scaremongering i.m.o.
Gybe said:
If you don't think it's appropriate to discuss an issue in the NON caravanning section of the forum then the simplest thing is not to take part.
Thank you DD for bringing the petition to the attention of those of us that wish to support it!!
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