Second Lockdown 😥😥😥😥😥😥😥

[otherclive]

Our regiment will be attempting to do a virtual Rememberance Service to remember our fallen.

Yes what I meant was no official on site Remembrance services held normally by the Royal British Legion where members of the public can attend.

 

[Dustydog]

The RBL here wrote to our Town Council saying Remembrance Sunday is a Local Authority event . RBL then cancelled the road closure. All before the second lockdown was announced. See the RBL web site. This is why in my Town two events have taken place today. 😥😥. An official one by a flag pole! The unofficial one at The War Memorial,. I wanted to go to the latter but decided to stay home..
Prof.
If all goes to plan a good friend of ours will privately email you page 16 from yesterday’s DT. Not sure I am allowed to publish it on here due to copyrights etc.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If all goes to plan a good friend of ours will privately email you page 16 from yesterday’s DT. Not sure I am allowed to publish it on here due to copyrights etc.

Received thank you.

I'm not sure which broke the news first, but this article aligns with what I I gleaned from a variety of sources. This has the potential to be a major threat, and we ignore it at our peril.

 

[ProfJohnL]

A light at the end of the tunnel! 😎

American pharmaceutical company Pfizer has announced the results of one of its C19 Vaccine trials. Preliminary results suggest their vaccine can help in up to 90% of cases to raise antibody responses to the Covid -19 virus.

It must be stressed that these are preliminary results and they need to be peer reviewed and the evidence verified, but there is reasonable cause for optimism. The company will need to seek a special rapid licence from the FDA and similar organisations in other countries before it can be made available, but the hope is it might be licenced before the end of 2020.

Apparently the UK Gov't has options to purchase 40M doses but as each recipient needs two doses that only represents 20M people. Priority will be given frontline medical staff, and then the most vulnerable.

It is still not known if the Danish mutation of the base virus will respond or hinder the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine.

But its a start!

 

[RogerL]

A light at the end of the tunnel! 😎

American pharmaceutical company Pfizer has announced the results of one of its C19 Vaccine trials. Preliminary results suggest their vaccine can help in up to 90% of cases to raise antibody responses to the Covid -19 virus.

It must be stressed that these are preliminary results and they need to be peer reviewed and the evidence verified, but there is reasonable cause for optimism. The company will need to seek a special rapid licence from the FDA and similar organisations in other countries before it can be made available, but the hope is it might be licenced before the end of 2020.

Apparently the UK Gov't has options to purchase 40M doses but as each recipient needs two doses that only represents 20M people. Priority will be given frontline medical staff, and then the most vulnerable.

It is still not known if the Danish mutation of the base virus will respond or hinder the effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine.

But its a start!

The FDA will only approve drugs for use in the USA - it's the MHRA that approves drugs for use in the UK with the EMA approving for Europe-wide use.

The prioritization will be - hospital staff and care home workers - the extremely vulnerable - the elderly - everyone else.

UK Govt doesn't just have "options to purchase" - 10m doses are already ordered for delivery before the end of this year with a further 30m doses to follow.

 

[otherclive]

The FDA will only approve drugs for use in the USA - it's the MHRA that approves drugs for use in the UK with the EMA approving for Europe-wide use.

The prioritization will be - hospital staff and care home workers - the extremely vulnerable - the elderly - everyone else.

UK Govt doesn't just have "options to purchase" - 10m doses are already ordered for delivery before the end of this year with a further 30m doses to follow.

Prof did say ‘other countries “ re regulatory approval.

 

[RogerL]

Prof did say ‘other countries “ re regulatory approval.

Seems strange on a UK website that the UK comes within the "other countries".

 

[Parksy]

S

Prof did say ‘other countries “ re regulatory approval.

Seems strange on a UK website that the UK comes within the "other countries".

This nit picking adds nothing to the discussion.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Seems strange on a UK website that the UK comes within the "other countries".

Because when I was typing it I could not recall the UK's regulatory body.

 

[RogerL]

S


This nit picking adds nothing to the discussion.

I think it does add to the discussion - I know that ProfJohnL likes accuracy and I felt the correction was valid - it may mislead other contributors if publicity is given to the FDA approving/disapproving this vaccine and they think it has any relevance to the UK.

 

[Damian]

I think it does add to the discussion - I know that ProfJohnL likes accuracy and I felt the correction was valid - it may mislead other contributors if publicity is given to the FDA approving/disapproving this vaccine and they think it has any relevance to the UK.

Your posting is completely out of order. If you read what was actually posted by the Prof there was no misleading part in it :

Quote " The company will need to seek a special rapid licence from the FDA and similar organisations in other countries before it can be made available, .

 

[Parksy]

I think it does add to the discussion - I know that ProfJohnL likes accuracy and I felt the correction was valid - it may mislead other contributors if publicity is given to the FDA approving/disapproving this vaccine and they think it has any relevance to the UK.

Seems strange on a UK website that the UK comes within the "other countries".

I fail to see what 'correction' you think that you made.

 

[Jcloughie]

Great news about the vaccine.

John

Edit.... Understood that this had to be edited, I apologise.

 

[otherclive]

My son has advised us to wait for the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine.

 

[Beachball]

Fantastic news about the Vaccine

 

[Dustydog]

Don’t quite follow your son’s advice Clive🤔
Reading the various scientific papers Pfizer worked with a German pharmaceutical company to achieve their vaccine, Astra Zeneca worked with the Oxford Dons whilst in USA Eli Lilly also have a vaccine. More will follow.
All have been proven effective. Do I care who makes it? One assumes NICE and MHRA will do their bits and ensure 20million of us get innoculated asap.
All I want for our front line workers NHS Staff , elderly and immediately vulnerable persons is a swift start to vaccinations.
Do you believe the efficacy of Pfizer’s product is questionable? I have no idea.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Please let me make it clear. I only posted about Pfizer's as they have been the first company to publicly state they have a vaccine with evidence of efficacy. I am not holding them up as the best , simply the first. World wide there are many other teams looking at way of defeating Covid-19, and it will be vitally important to have more than one type of solution.

As yet there is no way of determining if one solution is better than another, so no one - not even the different development teams can rank the comparative efficacy.

Unless there is a concern about negative interactions between different solutions administered to a person, I can see no reason to refuse one brand, to wait for a second to come on stream.

Unnecessary delays in commencing a course gives the virus more chance to adapt.

And now for the controversial point:-
I also believe that if the vaccine is confirmed as having a 90% or greater success rate, vaccination should be made compulsory except where professional medical counter concerns exist.

 

[Dustydog]

Prof said.
And now for the controversial point:-
I also believe that if the vaccine is confirmed as having a 90% or greater success rate, vaccination should be made compulsory except where professional medical counter concerns exist.
Yes , very controversial!
Sadly the Human Rights Activists will disagree. You only have to look at the number of kids today who don’t get Polio Typhoid Mumps TB etc etc inoculations because the parents disagree. I know my friends and family will all wish to have the vaccine asap but to make it mandatory may well be a dangerous Big Brother effect.

 

[otherclive]

Don’t quite follow your son’s advice Clive🤔
Reading the various scientific papers Pfizer worked with a German pharmaceutical company to achieve their vaccine, Astra Zeneca worked with the Oxford Dons whilst in USA Eli Lilly also have a vaccine. More will follow.
All have been proven effective. Do I care who makes it? One assumes NICE and MHRA will do their bits and ensure 20million of us get innoculated asap.
All I want for our front line workers NHS Staff , elderly and immediately vulnerable persons is a swift start to vaccinations.
Do you believe the efficacy of Pfizer’s product is questionable? I have no idea.

Dusty for 29 years since he graduated in biology he’s worked professionally in Clinical Research Organisations. The drug companies design their drugs and establish pilot manufacturing programmes for trial quantities. They mostly then contract out the work of arranging the trials, managing the trials through the various regulatory phases. They analyse the results, liaise with regulators and parent drug company throughout the drugs development until approved or rejected. He has a wealth of experience worldwide in creating and managing such trials. From his knowledge of the various competitor vaccines and the trials he feels at our age we might be better served by a vaccine based on more conventional development techniques. But when he spoke to us he was at pains to say that it’s still early days yet and there’s further to go.

One aspect of the drive for a Corona vaccine is that drug companies have stopped or slowed down other developments into new drugs. The German partner of Pfizer has stopped development of cancer drugs. It’s a double edged sword in that development has really slowed or stopped, and where drugs are being offered for trial the worlds hospitals, clinics and GOs are unable to participate in trials given the pressures on them. As such many CRO are having financial problems and my son along with his teams in Munich, Sam Diego and Raleigh have all been made redundant. He’s lucky in a sense vas he’s got six months gardening leave. This virus will have ramifications for years to come on individuals and the nations finances.

 

[Jcloughie]

They had a piece on the German couple who developed the vaccine. Both originally from Turkey, one went to east, the other to west Germany. Met at some stage and created their own business (presumably pharmaceuticals) which the sold for big money. They are billionaires and amongst Germany’s rich list. But have no real interest in money and happy to cycle to work each day.

John

 

[Dustydog]

That‘s very bad news Clive about your son being redundant at this crucial time ! Maybe then the silver Bullet isn’t so silver after all😢😢😢

 

[otherclive]

Please let me make it clear. I only posted about Pfizer's as they have been the first company to publicly state they have a vaccine with evidence of efficacy. I am not holding them up as the best , simply the first. World wide there are many other teams looking at way of defeating Covid-19, and it will be vitally important to have more than one type of solution.

As yet there is no way of determining if one solution is better than another, so no one - not even the different development teams can rank the comparative efficacy.

Unless there is a concern about negative interactions between different solutions administered to a person, I can see no reason to refuse one brand, to wait for a second to come on stream.

Unnecessary delays in commencing a course gives the virus more chance to adapt.

And now for the controversial point:-
I also believe that if the vaccine is confirmed as having a 90% or greater success rate, vaccination should be made compulsory except where professional medical counter concerns exist.

I would strongly object to compulsory vaccination. Lots of vaccines are approved with 50% success and they aren’t made compulsory. Why does 90% make compulsion a necessity?
Ive had all of the standard jabs and quite a lot more to enable me to visit less “ friendly” places. But compulsion would get a big no from me. If folks decide not to be vaccinated it’s their risk. They perhaps get it and shrug it off, they get it and get Long Covid, or perhaps they die. It’s their choice. People have to take responsibility for their decisions. If you have been vaccinated then hopefully you are okay.

 

[otherclive]

That‘s very bad news Clive about your son being redundant at this crucial time ! Maybe then the silver Bullet isn’t so silver after all😢😢😢

I really don’t think that many people have really woken up to the damage that this virus has done, and will be with society and the nations for many years to come. That’s one reason I’m not in favour of wholesale repeated lockdowns. Human behaviour responds to risk. Take crossing the roads, cycling, drink driving etc. It’s not really the law that affects behaviour it’s the consequences of non alignment to the societal norms. Yes there will always be those who decide on way or another to not align but they have to take the consequences. Are lockdowns effective? Well the results in Caerphilly, Merthyr and some of the Welsh areas aren’t that great and they were effectively restricted well before their last lockdown. People seem to be slow on learning and some are reluctant to point this out. Recently we were queuing to go into a cafe for breakfast. The couple behind were gradually encroaching on our space. So I turned and gave them a look. No joy. So I asked them to move back. Their reply was that they had masks on and we hadn’t. It wasn’t a requirement at that time. My next request got them to move back, such that they went home.

 

[Dustydog]

I really don’t think that many people have really woken up to the damage that this virus has done, and will be with society and the nations for many years to come. That’s one reason I’m not in favour of wholesale repeated lockdowns. Human behaviour responds to risk. Take crossing the roads, cycling, drink driving etc. It’s not really the law that affects behaviour it’s the consequences of non alignment to the societal norms. Yes there will always be those who decide on way or another to not align but they have to take the consequences. Are lockdowns effective? Well the results in Caerphilly, Merthyr and some of the Welsh areas aren’t that great and they were effectively restricted well before their last lockdown. People seem to be slow on learning and some are reluctant to point this out. Recently we were queuing to go into a cafe for breakfast. The couple behind were gradually encroaching on our space. So I turned and gave them a look. No joy. So I asked them to move back. Their reply was that they had masks on and we hadn’t. It wasn’t a requirement at that time. My next request got them to move back, such that they went home.

You were there for a knuckle sandwich🤪🤪🤪

 

[otherclive]

You were there for a knuckle sandwich🤪🤪🤪

Giving? Those days have gone. Receiving? Requires careful consideration of opposition.