Taxed to make you give up caravaning?

[Colinn]

I am just replying to stand up for the "apathetic voter" who is to blame for all these problems.

I am one of these - though not apathetic. Last time i went to vote i had a "choice" of Labour, Tory or Lib Dem. Couldn't decide which liar to vote for so didn't vote.

No government will make voting compulsory. How would they explain if say, more than 50% of the people were like me and spoiled their paper so as to avoid voting for someone they didn't want? The government would not have a mandate from the majority would they? Same as if they put "none of the above" on a ballot paper as was suggested before the last election.

No, they are quite cosy having the majority who voted to fall back on even if it is only 40ish%.

As i posted on another forum, wouldn't it be intersting if you could vote for "none of the above" and if this was the majority then the constituency remained vacant? We could end up with a parliament of 12 MPs! Think of the money that would be saved! No need for green (or many other) taxes. And you can be sure they would start listening to the electorate very quickly indeed.

The trouble with this view is that it is the ultimate cop-out. Whether you like our politicians or not, SOMEONE has to run the country. It's what democracy is all about. It's what our forefathers gave their lives for. It's what people living under tyranny would give their all for. What's the alternative?

People in this democratic country do have the right to vote but enjoy the freedom to spurn it. They consider freedom a right - but in the real world it ain't - evil prospers when good men do nothing...

Democracy would indeed be stronger - and we would probably get the leaders we want - if everyone WAS obliged to vote. People of a like mind to remove a bad government could count on the support of ALL those who felt likewise.

 

[Roger_5109606]

If this was a so called 'GREEN' tax then tell me why a car registered before 1st April 2006 is less poluting than one registered after.

They came of the same production line !!! You could have 2 identical cars that followed each other of the line one will have higher taxed than the other

You tell me the logic there.

According to one report this affects at present about 225000 vehicles which will get Commarade Brown about

 

[RJC]

Hi

Like MIchael of Kent I have just bought a new Jeep Commander and am faced with the new higher rate. I agree that this is an unfair tax (the tax should have gone on fuel to hit the higher users). I also knew that Gordon would hit band G cars before I bought the car. But putting this into perspective we are only talking about

 

[Colinn]

If this was a so called 'GREEN' tax then tell me why a car registered before 1st April 2006 is less poluting than one registered after.

They came of the same production line !!! You could have 2 identical cars that followed each other of the line one will have higher taxed than the other

You tell me the logic there.

According to one report this affects at present about 225000 vehicles which will get Commarade Brown about

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Thanks to William for the original link to this site

http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vedSearchResults.asp
If you select "All" or a particular make you can see what is in band G.

All Renault Espaces are band G, which I found surprising.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Correction not all Espaces are band G

Apologies for any stress caused to some 2L owners

 

[MONKEY1]

Just to clarify a common misconception only 40 % of all cars affected by the significant rise in RFL are 4x4 (figure from the SMMT - car dealers trade association) therefore the majority are cars which generally as a rule are large engine vehicles.

Regards MH

 

[Bernie_5110919]

Ref'

 

[michael_374293497]

Is there a web site where you can check individual cars i tow with a 52 plate x trail 2.2di and am not sure of the band it will fall into i currently pay

 

[RobRoy]

Hi

Like MIchael of Kent I have just bought a new Jeep Commander and am faced with the new higher rate. I agree that this is an unfair tax (the tax should have gone on fuel to hit the higher users). I also knew that Gordon would hit band G cars before I bought the car. But putting this into perspective we are only talking about

 

[VIP2006]

Now I don't want you all to laugh together, just one at a time.

I whilst listening intently to Gordon thought that it was his intention to kill 3 birds with one tax.

1 - Make a few bob for the treasury to spend in nefarious ways

2 - Stop us from having large heavy cars to pull our caravans

3 - Have car makers to get their finger out to develop "green" cars that are suitable for us caravanners.

Obviously a lot of caravanners will be caught in the net of the exhorbitant charges placed on their tow cars and can sincerely feel for them.

Now think on this.

If car manufacturers make "clean" and environmently acceptable cars.

If Caravan manufacturers make lighter vans,

will the car taxes be then levelled at the a much lower rate? I don't think so. Ah well it was a good recreational activity whilst I could afford it.

 

[Lol1]

More to the point, when did the road fund license become a green tax? If someone is creating more bad dioxides than they should, shouldn't they be taxed by a purpose made tax? I thought the RFL was all about the construction and upkeep of our roads.

Even more to the point, are we not forgetting that road traffic, air traffic and rail traffic doesn't effect our weather. In fact nothing that we do, effects the climate to the degree the greens speak of. It's time for the blinkers to come off.

 

[cokey1970]

Anyone know the kerbweight of a Toyota Prius? ;-)

 

[emmerson2]

I know Emmerson, I had one a long time ago, probably before you (thats one nil for the younger (just) generation, me thinks). But according to the greens, it doesn't matter what you drive, ol, new or middle aged, you're a baddy. I wonder what they do their weekly Tesco shop in?

lol, I'm a fairly recent convert. I bought my first LPG RR about 7 years ago, and the LPGA w calculator tells me that I've saved over

 

[Robert_374242026]

Yes , and the tax cut to 20p, great news for some but what about the scrapping of the 10% rate.More low income people paying more tax.

Robbing the poor to pay the rich.

Hi Brian ,we had a X-Trail 2.5 Sport auto last year, thought it the bee's knee's .Then learnt about the new tax that might be and along with the fuel consumption towing our Coachman 460/2, at around 18/20 mpg .So we changed it for a Skoda Octavia with the dsg gearbox (tax is

 

[Allyson]

I have checked our 4X4 Freelander TD and it has not gone into the top catagory.

Find out about your car / 4x4 cut and paste the link below.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/HowToTaxYourVehicle/DG_10012524

 

[WilliamTups]

I do get fed up with the attack on us as Caravaners, since some of us use 4x4's for practical reasons. When as a family we got our first caravan, I wanted a decent nose weight which a 4x4 best offered, but at the same time I did know want to kill the planet .

So I opted for a Honda CRV and at 177g/km is better than some family estate cars, but I benefit from a better nose weight, a good tow and the room inside the car is good for the family & equipment - but I still get flack at work for driving a 4x4 - what more can I do

 

[milliesdad]

Colinn, you said "The trouble with this view is that it is the ultimate cop-out. Whether you like our politicians or not, SOMEONE has to run the country. It's what democracy is all about. It's what our forefathers gave their lives for. It's what people living under tyranny would give their all for. What's the alternative?

People in this democratic country do have the right to vote but enjoy the freedom to spurn it. They consider freedom a right - but in the real world it ain't - evil prospers when good men do nothing...

Democracy would indeed be stronger - and we would probably get the leaders we want - if everyone WAS obliged to vote. People of a like mind to remove a bad government could count on the support of ALL those who felt likewise."

While i sympathise with your view, yes we can remove a bad government but my point is what do we replace it with?! In my view an equally bad one, so what is the point? What is acheived by voting out Hitler in favour of Stalin? (Extreme i know, but it's just to illustrate my point).

It is my opinion that none of the parties that are likely to govern the country are fit to do so, so i will not vote for any of them. If i had had the choice of voting for UKIP or an independent candidate or indeed as i suggested none of the above then i would have done. But my choice was Labour, Tory or Lib dem so i chose not to vote. I stand by that decision.

I am intrigued to know what your choice of better leader would be? Brown, Cameron or Campbell? 'Cos like or or not that's your lot.

At the moment any party governing can claim a mandate from the people that voted. If we were given the choice to say "well actually, none of you" and this ended up as the majority then they would have no mandate and thay would have to act to get the majority back onside again and the only way to do that would be to listen. Isn't that what we want at the end of the day?

William,

If your having a hard time from your work mates have a look here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2007/02/the_chilling_stars_by_calder_and_svensmark.html
and maybe get them a copy. If they're open minded they will leave you alone if not then i would bother with them anyway.

Hope it helps - good luck.

 

[Val & Frank]

Good post millies dad, Agreed.

Val & Frank

 

[RJC]

 

[william_5122476]

Colinn, you said "The trouble with this view is that it is the ultimate cop-out. Whether you like our politicians or not, SOMEONE has to run the country. It's what democracy is all about. It's what our forefathers gave their lives for. It's what people living under tyranny would give their all for. What's the alternative?

People in this democratic country do have the right to vote but enjoy the freedom to spurn it. They consider freedom a right - but in the real world it ain't - evil prospers when good men do nothing...

Democracy would indeed be stronger - and we would probably get the leaders we want - if everyone WAS obliged to vote. People of a like mind to remove a bad government could count on the support of ALL those who felt likewise."

While i sympathise with your view, yes we can remove a bad government but my point is what do we replace it with?! In my view an equally bad one, so what is the point? What is acheived by voting out Hitler in favour of Stalin? (Extreme i know, but it's just to illustrate my point).

It is my opinion that none of the parties that are likely to govern the country are fit to do so, so i will not vote for any of them. If i had had the choice of voting for UKIP or an independent candidate or indeed as i suggested none of the above then i would have done. But my choice was Labour, Tory or Lib dem so i chose not to vote. I stand by that decision.

I am intrigued to know what your choice of better leader would be? Brown, Cameron or Campbell? 'Cos like or or not that's your lot.

At the moment any party governing can claim a mandate from the people that voted. If we were given the choice to say "well actually, none of you" and this ended up as the majority then they would have no mandate and thay would have to act to get the majority back onside again and the only way to do that would be to listen. Isn't that what we want at the end of the day?

William,

If your having a hard time from your work mates have a look here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2007/02/the_chilling_stars_by_calder_and_svensmark.html
and maybe get them a copy. If they're open minded they will leave you alone if not then i would bother with them anyway.

Hope it helps - good luck.

Well said William...I like you didn't vote and for the same reasons...think we're all fed up with these over paid PARASITES.

Also a William

 

[Colinn]

Colinn, you said "The trouble with this view is that it is the ultimate cop-out. Whether you like our politicians or not, SOMEONE has to run the country. It's what democracy is all about. It's what our forefathers gave their lives for. It's what people living under tyranny would give their all for. What's the alternative?

People in this democratic country do have the right to vote but enjoy the freedom to spurn it. They consider freedom a right - but in the real world it ain't - evil prospers when good men do nothing...

Democracy would indeed be stronger - and we would probably get the leaders we want - if everyone WAS obliged to vote. People of a like mind to remove a bad government could count on the support of ALL those who felt likewise."

While i sympathise with your view, yes we can remove a bad government but my point is what do we replace it with?! In my view an equally bad one, so what is the point? What is acheived by voting out Hitler in favour of Stalin? (Extreme i know, but it's just to illustrate my point).

It is my opinion that none of the parties that are likely to govern the country are fit to do so, so i will not vote for any of them. If i had had the choice of voting for UKIP or an independent candidate or indeed as i suggested none of the above then i would have done. But my choice was Labour, Tory or Lib dem so i chose not to vote. I stand by that decision.

I am intrigued to know what your choice of better leader would be? Brown, Cameron or Campbell? 'Cos like or or not that's your lot.

At the moment any party governing can claim a mandate from the people that voted. If we were given the choice to say "well actually, none of you" and this ended up as the majority then they would have no mandate and thay would have to act to get the majority back onside again and the only way to do that would be to listen. Isn't that what we want at the end of the day?

William,

If your having a hard time from your work mates have a look here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2007/02/the_chilling_stars_by_calder_and_svensmark.html
and maybe get them a copy. If they're open minded they will leave you alone if not then i would bother with them anyway.

Hope it helps - good luck.

So it seems you decided not to vote because there was no UKIP or independent candidate on offer. What on earth makes you think they would be any different? And I wonder why only 2-3% of voters share a preference for the UKIP - ummmhhh...!!!

You say that the people in power would have to listen if nobody voted for them. Surely, much more positive if everyone was obliged to vote - then we would have a genuine democratic vote on the people we want in power and I'm sure you would then be happy to vote and stand by the true majority will.