Not lecturing you at all NGH, just clarifying misrepresented points to enable an informed discussion. The NHS give me the option of having a new lease car but I choose not to and stick to my '04 Micra, however I am paid 40p per mile and average 800 miles a month - I think thats fair. I hear what you say about paying for courses if you want a change of direction - can't comment as I have never changed direction but I do know our Trust is committed to training staff and funding unfortunately various between Trusts.
Gumbo what can't you see the fact remains doctors had "still have to my knowlege" a case file with all you medical notes letters ect, in on the front was your name address pat no and space to write any allergies and major problems in when doing a visit the receptionist gave you the notes to take in when you were called in. soon as he saw your file and your face he knew exactly who you were.
Colin I can clearly go back to 1960 and not many Drs had a reception area you sat in the waiting room till the Dr called next. No appointment nothing look up the population in the 50s/60s and then look at todays population the old system wouldn't work. The only way the Dr might know who you are is just in a very small community.
Ps when the Dr brings up your notes on his Computer it flashes in Red any allergy or any medicine you should not be given. Modern medicine coupled to technology wonderful.
Ps when the Dr brings up your notes on his Computer it flashes in Red any allergy or any medicine you should not be given. Modern medicine coupled to technology wonderful.
Valerie you are correct in what you said, the change of direction for my wife was because she had been in the intensive care for14 years and the stress and trauma was to much after this time.
The trust at the time wanted district nurses, but she needed the district-nursing course, because she was heavily trained in the intensive care nursing the trust were loathed to pay for the district-nursing course, so we paid.
I apologise for my last post, but this subject is very close to home and feelings get very emotive on this issue
My wife has done the same has you dumped the crown car and now uses the 07 Shogun, this is due to the fact she is only helping out on the district couple of days week the rest of her time is taken up with her own job
La'croc get a life you f----n pussys, and a job.
Got to revert to the f word have we get a job l wouldn't employ you with language like this on a friendly open forum, if you can't add substance to the debate stay out of it.
If you want slanging match this is not the place to do it even though l could match you word for word.
Moderator l suggest you remove his post, l for one find it offensive
NigelH
The trust at the time wanted district nurses, but she needed the district-nursing course, because she was heavily trained in the intensive care nursing the trust were loathed to pay for the district-nursing course, so we paid.
I apologise for my last post, but this subject is very close to home and feelings get very emotive on this issue
My wife has done the same has you dumped the crown car and now uses the 07 Shogun, this is due to the fact she is only helping out on the district couple of days week the rest of her time is taken up with her own job
La'croc get a life you f----n pussys, and a job.
Got to revert to the f word have we get a job l wouldn't employ you with language like this on a friendly open forum, if you can't add substance to the debate stay out of it.
If you want slanging match this is not the place to do it even though l could match you word for word.
Moderator l suggest you remove his post, l for one find it offensive
NigelH
Moderator glad you removed that post, you must have done it has l was writing the last post.
Kind regards
NigelH
Kind regards
NigelH
Damian
Moderator
NGH, yes I have removed the posting, along with several others.
Whilst this person seems to have some kind of problem with communicating in a reasonable way, we are trying to keep the forum clear of such drivel and ramblings.
Some posts may stay longer than they should, that is because we do not monitor the forum 24/7, but we will remove them as soon as we know about them.
Whilst this person seems to have some kind of problem with communicating in a reasonable way, we are trying to keep the forum clear of such drivel and ramblings.
Some posts may stay longer than they should, that is because we do not monitor the forum 24/7, but we will remove them as soon as we know about them.
Hi,
So, how many of us checked to see if we have been moderated? I did, and THINK I've lost at least one, maybe more. ??? No offence taken, you're the moderator.
602
So, how many of us checked to see if we have been moderated? I did, and THINK I've lost at least one, maybe more. ??? No offence taken, you're the moderator.
602
Hi folks this is a very good topic, and I would like to give my reasons for not penalising our doctors or nurses.
1 - when maggie was in power, along came a set of people who were called Financial Advisors, who peddled and mis-sold endowment policies which caused havoc with ordinary peoples future nest eggs.
2 - At the same time the then government decided to close all of the mines, shipyards and most heavy industry which caused millions of working class people to be thrown on the dole. and they were then retrained in the "service" areas.
3 - then came the misselling of endowment policies which were taken out to purchase a house(home)and withe the promises that on maturity the house would be paid and a few thousands for your nest egg.
4 - Then the pensions fiasco, in which many many people from all walks of life lots thousands of pounds out of their pension pot due to company pension holidays and a high take from the government of the day.
5 - so what are people advised to do, "put your money into property as it value would exponentially. and what do we have again Negative Equity.
6 - The banks through there being no or little regulation in their affairs, were near!! to bankruptcy andhad to be bailed out by the government.
7 - Massive bonuses to the elite of the heads of corporations, banks and businesses etc,
I could write a book on the inadequacies and predudices that prevail in this country today, and if our forefathers could see what they struggled and fought for being eroded they would turn in their graves.
8 - We should not penalise our profesional staff in the NHS and we should seek to provide them with every pound needed to make the service as 100% as possible. and it should be brought to everyones attention that we are all in the queue of life and god forbid that we do not follow the situation that exists in the USA
This is my opinion
1 - when maggie was in power, along came a set of people who were called Financial Advisors, who peddled and mis-sold endowment policies which caused havoc with ordinary peoples future nest eggs.
2 - At the same time the then government decided to close all of the mines, shipyards and most heavy industry which caused millions of working class people to be thrown on the dole. and they were then retrained in the "service" areas.
3 - then came the misselling of endowment policies which were taken out to purchase a house(home)and withe the promises that on maturity the house would be paid and a few thousands for your nest egg.
4 - Then the pensions fiasco, in which many many people from all walks of life lots thousands of pounds out of their pension pot due to company pension holidays and a high take from the government of the day.
5 - so what are people advised to do, "put your money into property as it value would exponentially. and what do we have again Negative Equity.
6 - The banks through there being no or little regulation in their affairs, were near!! to bankruptcy andhad to be bailed out by the government.
7 - Massive bonuses to the elite of the heads of corporations, banks and businesses etc,
I could write a book on the inadequacies and predudices that prevail in this country today, and if our forefathers could see what they struggled and fought for being eroded they would turn in their graves.
8 - We should not penalise our profesional staff in the NHS and we should seek to provide them with every pound needed to make the service as 100% as possible. and it should be brought to everyones attention that we are all in the queue of life and god forbid that we do not follow the situation that exists in the USA
This is my opinion
Hi Mrs Sheila,
Despite my previous comments, I do hold the majority of medics in high esteem. OK, some enter the profession because they want "a good job", not because they want to "do a good job". But most want to help people.
And then they find their bosses are leaning on them to save money. It takes strength of character to keep your eye on why you chose that profession. I was a civil servant, who was I serving? The general public? My boss who wanted promotion? Or a mandarin looking for a knighthood? Guess which was the easy option?
The problem is finding the middle route. Chuck money at the NHS, and the fat cats will get fatter. Some will trickle down to the foot soldiers, who will also get fatter. But it won't improve the service to the public. That needs facilities like beds and drugs. So don't chuck money at the NHS .... and the fat cats will still get fatter, and services will deteriate.
The NHS is free! No its not, not to anybody paying taxes its not. But some staff seem to regard themselves as doing you a favour. (Er, read my first para above, again.) But because the service appears to be free, you get those that abuse it.
A local bimbo knocked on my door, asked to borrow my phone to call the doctor. I heard her tell the doctor that her baby had been vomiting all day, and would he come to her house. THIS WAS AT QUARTER TO FOUR IN THE AFTERNOON. The surgery opened at four o'clock. The doc told her he would see her immediately, IF she came to the surgery. She looked at me. I said I didn't have a baby seat in my car. So she walked the half mile to the surgery.
Sort out the time wasters, and we might get somewhere.
Between 1984 and 2005, I did not make a single appointment to visit my surgery. I had one call out for severe Labyrinthitis (sp?), a broken collar bone, and an appedix removal. My GP did not even know we had children, they were never ill. But now they have a grip on me and keep calling me in for check-ups. Doh!
602
Valerie said "NGH, just to clarify, I'm wondering if the nurses you are referring are "Nurse Prescribers". In this case these they have undergone training to prescribe certain repeat scripts for drugs already prescribed by a doctor, they most certainly do not go into the community and prescribe without consultation or change drugs as they are simply not qualified to do so. They will have been recompensed for this training by financial remuneration within their banding - this is the point of the yearly appraisal and personal development plan. My friend is a Nurse Prescriber and earning
Deejay,
I was talking about nurse prescribers, not independent prescribers. As part of the appraisal process certain criteria, once reached, allows you to move through a "gateway" to the next level within the banding, and each level is rewarded. Unless you fulfill the necessary criteria you cannot move up within the banding.
I was talking about nurse prescribers, not independent prescribers. As part of the appraisal process certain criteria, once reached, allows you to move through a "gateway" to the next level within the banding, and each level is rewarded. Unless you fulfill the necessary criteria you cannot move up within the banding.
Not quite sure what this is all about. The topic states Doctors and Nurses, but it seems to be mostly directed towards nurses. Don't know if that was the intention of the OP.
Also I note the OP mentioned a 'pay freeze' not a pay cut. As many people outside of the public sector are suffering pay cuts, or even worse then I would have thought that a similar proposal for public sector workers would have been acceptable particularly in these dire economic times. While qe are all aware of the strtosperic lifestyles of certain bankers and politicians, these certainly do not amount to more than a timy minority of the working population. 90% of bank workers are at the very low end of the scale. I cannot comment on England but here in Scotland a GP has an average salary of
Also I note the OP mentioned a 'pay freeze' not a pay cut. As many people outside of the public sector are suffering pay cuts, or even worse then I would have thought that a similar proposal for public sector workers would have been acceptable particularly in these dire economic times. While qe are all aware of the strtosperic lifestyles of certain bankers and politicians, these certainly do not amount to more than a timy minority of the working population. 90% of bank workers are at the very low end of the scale. I cannot comment on England but here in Scotland a GP has an average salary of
Hi,
My wife was an HEO in the Civil Service. One of her jobs was to interview and select "consultants" to do jobs that she reckoned she could. OK, only her opinion.
But some of those consultants were being paid in a day what she was being paid in a month.
602
My wife was an HEO in the Civil Service. One of her jobs was to interview and select "consultants" to do jobs that she reckoned she could. OK, only her opinion.
But some of those consultants were being paid in a day what she was being paid in a month.
602
Scotch Lad said:-
"Not quite sure what this is all about. The topic states Doctors and Nurses, but it seems to be mostly directed towards nurses. Don't know if that was the intention of the OP"
I referred to both. IMO they are the ones you need when you are ill. As I have experienced they do save lives. So why penalise these life savers with pay freezes ?
I had to take my wife to the A&E at Oban recently. Excellent service, FREE parking and FREE drugs!
Cheers
Dustydog
"Not quite sure what this is all about. The topic states Doctors and Nurses, but it seems to be mostly directed towards nurses. Don't know if that was the intention of the OP"
I referred to both. IMO they are the ones you need when you are ill. As I have experienced they do save lives. So why penalise these life savers with pay freezes ?
I had to take my wife to the A&E at Oban recently. Excellent service, FREE parking and FREE drugs!
Cheers
Dustydog
Valerie,
Nurse prescribers are Independent, supplementary or both. Nurse prescribers,do not solely "prescribe certain repeat prescriptions already prescribed by a GP" all are required to conduct a clinical assessment of the patient's requirements.We do go out into the community, or acute hospitals, and are qualified to "change drugs" or even commence new drugs, although you are correct that a consultation is required. We often work autonomously although with close relationships with patients' own GP.
The point I was attempting to make regarding the appraisal process was that there is no automatic progression between bands. Gumbo has posted the details regarding pay bands, however there is not automatic progression between the bands via appraisal. Newly qualified nurses commence at the bottom of band 5 (paypoint 16). Via the appraisal process described by Valerie, they are able to progress to the end of band 5 (point 24)-however they would be required to wait for or look for a band 6 position to become available to progress to the next band. Some nurses are happy to stay in band 5 as their family life or career choice dictates and may remain there for all of there working lives.If a nurse starts their career at paypoint 16 it doesnt naturally follow that in twenty years time they will be earning
Nurse prescribers are Independent, supplementary or both. Nurse prescribers,do not solely "prescribe certain repeat prescriptions already prescribed by a GP" all are required to conduct a clinical assessment of the patient's requirements.We do go out into the community, or acute hospitals, and are qualified to "change drugs" or even commence new drugs, although you are correct that a consultation is required. We often work autonomously although with close relationships with patients' own GP.
The point I was attempting to make regarding the appraisal process was that there is no automatic progression between bands. Gumbo has posted the details regarding pay bands, however there is not automatic progression between the bands via appraisal. Newly qualified nurses commence at the bottom of band 5 (paypoint 16). Via the appraisal process described by Valerie, they are able to progress to the end of band 5 (point 24)-however they would be required to wait for or look for a band 6 position to become available to progress to the next band. Some nurses are happy to stay in band 5 as their family life or career choice dictates and may remain there for all of there working lives.If a nurse starts their career at paypoint 16 it doesnt naturally follow that in twenty years time they will be earning
I regret I cannot see the connection with 'Dustydogs' last comments.
I am very pleased his wife received excellent care at the Oban hospital but not sure where that connects with pay and conditions. People accept Contracts to provide services and their obligation to complete these should not be dependent on annual pay rises. However I accept that certain parts of the workforce feel that labour withdrawal or restriction is part and parcel of negotiation. From a cursory enquiry, Oban hospital is part of NHS Highlands which has an annual budget of
I am very pleased his wife received excellent care at the Oban hospital but not sure where that connects with pay and conditions. People accept Contracts to provide services and their obligation to complete these should not be dependent on annual pay rises. However I accept that certain parts of the workforce feel that labour withdrawal or restriction is part and parcel of negotiation. From a cursory enquiry, Oban hospital is part of NHS Highlands which has an annual budget of
Deejay is correct in everything she has said, Deejay has put it better than l could, my wife did not want to get involved with the debate but l felt l had to defend her profession.
Being married to one of these Angels for 37 years, yes l call them Angels as that's want most of them are, there are few that fetch disgrace to the profession and so it happens in other walks of life.
My wife is not saying she is underpaid far from it she feels it is correct for watch she does and has achieved over the 40 or so years she has worked has a nurse.
She now works for the PTC, for the life of me l can't get me round what that is l still see it has the NHS.
l will always see her in royal blue with her RCN badge emblazoned on her uniform she gained 40 years ago and with her cape round her shoulders doing for others, l know if they dropped her grade tomorrow to save money she would still be their with her colleagues helping the sick, that's what sets them all above the rest.
I am sure if Florence Nightingale was a live today she would totally approve of how we now award our nurses and long may it continue.
NigelH
Being married to one of these Angels for 37 years, yes l call them Angels as that's want most of them are, there are few that fetch disgrace to the profession and so it happens in other walks of life.
My wife is not saying she is underpaid far from it she feels it is correct for watch she does and has achieved over the 40 or so years she has worked has a nurse.
She now works for the PTC, for the life of me l can't get me round what that is l still see it has the NHS.
l will always see her in royal blue with her RCN badge emblazoned on her uniform she gained 40 years ago and with her cape round her shoulders doing for others, l know if they dropped her grade tomorrow to save money she would still be their with her colleagues helping the sick, that's what sets them all above the rest.
I am sure if Florence Nightingale was a live today she would totally approve of how we now award our nurses and long may it continue.
NigelH
Scotch Lad
Simply I don't want to penalise those who deliver the goods. Hence my reference to Oban Hospital. They delivered, that's all. My OP was concerned solely with doctors and nurses as a result of some smarmy politician's proposal to freeze their pay.
There are many trades I can do without in life but not the doctors and nurses who prolong our lives. I never intended to extend this thread to all the other things that have cropped up.
Cheers
Dustydog
Simply I don't want to penalise those who deliver the goods. Hence my reference to Oban Hospital. They delivered, that's all. My OP was concerned solely with doctors and nurses as a result of some smarmy politician's proposal to freeze their pay.
There are many trades I can do without in life but not the doctors and nurses who prolong our lives. I never intended to extend this thread to all the other things that have cropped up.
Cheers
Dustydog
There are many trades I can do without in life but not the doctors and nurses who prolong our lives
Sometimes and sometimes they have been known to shorten them. They are not perfect by a long way. This has been a reasonable topic, that's why I never bothered to point out the in accuracies in Mrs Sheilas post.
The mines closed because no one wanted their Coal, we had switched to Gas Central heating
Sometimes and sometimes they have been known to shorten them. They are not perfect by a long way. This has been a reasonable topic, that's why I never bothered to point out the in accuracies in Mrs Sheilas post.
The mines closed because no one wanted their Coal, we had switched to Gas Central heating
Sorry Deejay for the mistake, when l meant nurses l meant all including male nurses of which there are many obviously Angels might not be the correct way to describeSorry Nigel-hate to correct you after the compliment-
I'm a fella!!!
you guys, you still do an outstanding job.
NigelH
Dustydog,
I appreciate your sentiments but unfortunately you opened a 'can of worms'. I however, must disagree with any comment that places any profession above others. In our lives today we rely on support from even the most unlikely of sources to enjoy our social lives. Health is certainly important but to place any profession on a 'pedestal' is i feel incorrect and totally unfair on others. The shelf stacker in the supermarket who ensures the food you wish to purchase is available day and night, the train driver who delivers you and your family great distances in safety, even the undertaker who buries your loved ones with respect and dignity, all deserve support. Doctors do a great job, but those misty days of Dr Findlay and Dr Cameron and Tannochbrae, have long gone. Doctors and nurses are required to meet targets just the same as anyone else and get paid by results, or quotas depending on how you look at things. Their Hippocratic Oath requires them to preserve life, unfortunately as recent events have shown, that is not always the case. As with many things, money dictates.
I fully agree with your comments regarding 'smarmy politicians' however our system dictates that they are the only ones empowered to make changes for good or bad, and are given authority by us to do so.
Our society is in a financial mess and there will be 'pain' for all of us before it is over. I cannot subscribe to any section of our society being exempted, especially doctors as their recent exorbitant pay awards have undoubtedly contributed, at least in part, to the funding crisis in the NHS.
I appreciate your sentiments but unfortunately you opened a 'can of worms'. I however, must disagree with any comment that places any profession above others. In our lives today we rely on support from even the most unlikely of sources to enjoy our social lives. Health is certainly important but to place any profession on a 'pedestal' is i feel incorrect and totally unfair on others. The shelf stacker in the supermarket who ensures the food you wish to purchase is available day and night, the train driver who delivers you and your family great distances in safety, even the undertaker who buries your loved ones with respect and dignity, all deserve support. Doctors do a great job, but those misty days of Dr Findlay and Dr Cameron and Tannochbrae, have long gone. Doctors and nurses are required to meet targets just the same as anyone else and get paid by results, or quotas depending on how you look at things. Their Hippocratic Oath requires them to preserve life, unfortunately as recent events have shown, that is not always the case. As with many things, money dictates.
I fully agree with your comments regarding 'smarmy politicians' however our system dictates that they are the only ones empowered to make changes for good or bad, and are given authority by us to do so.
Our society is in a financial mess and there will be 'pain' for all of us before it is over. I cannot subscribe to any section of our society being exempted, especially doctors as their recent exorbitant pay awards have undoubtedly contributed, at least in part, to the funding crisis in the NHS.
Scotch Lad
Thanks for all that. I feel this is getting out of hand.
Here is my OP:-
"Some idiot from the current Government wants to scrap any pay rises for our Doctors.
Well if there was ever any part of the Civil Service I'd hate to hurt is our Doctors who do a fantastic job.
If you have ever been at death's door you will know what I mean.
Meanwhile there are these To$$er$ in Whitehall studying Global Warming and its future on how we may vote amongst other things. Give me strength , sack these parasites not the people who look after our health.
Cheers
Dustydog "
Now how can that be a can of worms? I understand your sentiments . Ok where does it all stop?
We have two choices
Live like the PRC where everyone is equal? Not for me.
Or do we appreciate life. Isn't it the doctors who have the power to prolong our lives? I would never compare them to a shelf stacker.
I had no intentions of this becoming a NHS issue but in fact that hasn't been such a bad thing because we are lucky to hear stories first hand, all of which have validity imo.
So , no I don't think it is a can of worms.
Surely life must be the individual's most precious commodity?
Cheers
Dustydog
Thanks for all that. I feel this is getting out of hand.
Here is my OP:-
"Some idiot from the current Government wants to scrap any pay rises for our Doctors.
Well if there was ever any part of the Civil Service I'd hate to hurt is our Doctors who do a fantastic job.
If you have ever been at death's door you will know what I mean.
Meanwhile there are these To$$er$ in Whitehall studying Global Warming and its future on how we may vote amongst other things. Give me strength , sack these parasites not the people who look after our health.
Cheers
Dustydog "
Now how can that be a can of worms? I understand your sentiments . Ok where does it all stop?
We have two choices
Live like the PRC where everyone is equal? Not for me.
Or do we appreciate life. Isn't it the doctors who have the power to prolong our lives? I would never compare them to a shelf stacker.
I had no intentions of this becoming a NHS issue but in fact that hasn't been such a bad thing because we are lucky to hear stories first hand, all of which have validity imo.
So , no I don't think it is a can of worms.
Surely life must be the individual's most precious commodity?
Cheers
Dustydog
I agree with much of what Scotch lad has written in his last post.It is wrong to place any profession as superior to others.
I am a nurse.I could'nt fight fires, fight crime, or fight foreign wars. I do what I do, as do people in all walks of employment which are essential at keeping a civilised society's cogs turning.
Like any Health workers we are always appreciative of public support and praise, similarly negative criticism of my profession upsets me. As well as being a Nurse I am a husband, father of two young children, a mortgage payer, a voter and a taxpayer (and a caravanner!!).
Sad and corny as it may sound, I love my job and I am proud of my profession.I am also proud of the National health service, my employer. I enjoy nursing and find caring for people rewarding but when all is said and done, like the rest of the working population I need to feed my family and keep a roof over their heads.I knew when I went into nursing I would probably never be rich, but that I would have relative job security during my working life and provision for my retirement. I also feel that I am reasonably financially reimbursed for the work that I do.
Scotch Lad is correct, society is in a mess, and undoubtedly there will be pain for all of us before it is over, I do object to my profession, the medical profession and health care workers in general being used as a political football, by all parties eager to score potential votes.
At present, doctors exempt,Agenda for change, the Pay structure for the NHS,is committed to a three year pay deal. We are midway through second year. This deal was agreed, when the going was good for the economy, and was'nt anything particularly "flash" then, it certainly was'nt "inflation busting". Political parties are now talking about changes twelve or more months in advance when who knows what will happen to the economy! I am sure that we will react accordingly depending on what our political masters of the time demand of us-we usually do!
Anyone that fancies a job in the NHS as some kind of "wonderland" employer- go for it. NHS jobs this morning has 8117 vacancies-dont be sucked in by the Daily Mail's version of jobs, nurses earning
I am a nurse.I could'nt fight fires, fight crime, or fight foreign wars. I do what I do, as do people in all walks of employment which are essential at keeping a civilised society's cogs turning.
Like any Health workers we are always appreciative of public support and praise, similarly negative criticism of my profession upsets me. As well as being a Nurse I am a husband, father of two young children, a mortgage payer, a voter and a taxpayer (and a caravanner!!).
Sad and corny as it may sound, I love my job and I am proud of my profession.I am also proud of the National health service, my employer. I enjoy nursing and find caring for people rewarding but when all is said and done, like the rest of the working population I need to feed my family and keep a roof over their heads.I knew when I went into nursing I would probably never be rich, but that I would have relative job security during my working life and provision for my retirement. I also feel that I am reasonably financially reimbursed for the work that I do.
Scotch Lad is correct, society is in a mess, and undoubtedly there will be pain for all of us before it is over, I do object to my profession, the medical profession and health care workers in general being used as a political football, by all parties eager to score potential votes.
At present, doctors exempt,Agenda for change, the Pay structure for the NHS,is committed to a three year pay deal. We are midway through second year. This deal was agreed, when the going was good for the economy, and was'nt anything particularly "flash" then, it certainly was'nt "inflation busting". Political parties are now talking about changes twelve or more months in advance when who knows what will happen to the economy! I am sure that we will react accordingly depending on what our political masters of the time demand of us-we usually do!
Anyone that fancies a job in the NHS as some kind of "wonderland" employer- go for it. NHS jobs this morning has 8117 vacancies-dont be sucked in by the Daily Mail's version of jobs, nurses earning
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