Will the electric car strategy the govement has kill Caravans

[ProfJohnL]

I'm not worried about this. I think technology will get better and better so it's a non issue.

There have been several differnt topic areas in this thread, what does your comment relate to?

 

[otherclive]

I read recently that the proposed EU7 regulations which are in consultation could lead to European car makers moving all ICE/hybrid production out of Europe and into countries that still accept new cars with ICE. As such those vehicles would not be imported into Europe. The EU7 proposals being developed for consultation have three possible approaches from a minimal change to EU6 to one where the car transmits its emissions data in real time. Renault-Nissan think that introduction of the most stringent would add £5000 to the price of a Duster. 😩

It’s clear to see now why so many makers are determined not to pursue even hybrids after 2030.

 

[Buckman]

I read recently that the proposed EU7 regulations which are in consultation could lead to European car makers moving all ICE/hybrid production out of Europe and into countries that still accept new cars with ICE. As such those vehicles would not be imported into Europe. The EU7 proposals being developed for consultation have three possible approaches from a minimal change to EU6 to one where the car transmits its emissions data in real time. Renault-Nissan think that introduction of the most stringent would add £5000 to the price of a Duster. 😩

It’s clear to see now why so many makers are determined not to pursue even hybrids after 2030.

However if those manufacturers relocate to countries outside the EU there will be plenty of job opportunities in those countries and for them to learn new skills. Just ba pity about those that may become unemployed in the EU, but luckily the EU probably has a large fund to pay benefits and training grants to those unemployed people.

 

[otherclive]

However if those manufacturers relocate to countries outside the EU there will be plenty of job opportunities in those countries and for them to learn new skills. Just ba pity about those that may become unemployed in the EU, but luckily the EU probably has a large fund to pay benefits and training grants to those unemployed people.

But what about the job opportunities in Europe for the manufacture of electric cars, infrastructure, service/maintenance etc. No one has indicated that Europe’s need for cars will reduce, just that the type and mix of cars being offered for sale will change from ICE to electric. At present in Europe there seems to be a shortage of workers which isn’t going to be helped in the future by the low birth rates and ageing populations. Car factories in proportion to total employment employ relatively low numbers of staff, so as long as folks are still buying and using cars the impact on employment may not be as significant as you think and the existing stock of ICE vehicles aren’t going to disappear overnight.

 

[ProfJohnL]

However if those manufacturers relocate to countries outside the EU there will be plenty of job opportunities in those countries and for them to learn new skills. Just ba pity about those that may become unemployed in the EU, but luckily the EU probably has a large fund to pay benefits and training grants to those unemployed people.

The outlook is nowhere near as bleak as you persistently claim. The production of EV's will still use many of the same techniques as present day ICE vehicles, Bodies, electrics, interior fittings and numerous other aspects are common to both ICE and EV's. The biggest change is with the thousands of parts that make up and IC engine, and the relatively few parts in an electric motor.

This will probably mean there will a reduction in the number or employees needed to build EV's compared to ICE but this isn't going to be a single overnight event, there are several years over which the change over will occur. Whilst the manufacturers may be prevented from selling new ICE cars, there will still be several million ICE cars on the roads for many years after production stops. There will still be a market for spares.

That gives time for people to retrain to new tasks within the business, consequent the prospect is for relatively few people to be made redundant, most will simply retire when their due.

 

[Buckman]

The outlook is nowhere near as bleak as you persistently claim.

Having been in a trade where technology made us redundant, it is no fun retraining when in your early fifties as no one wants to employ you due to the age thing. Consequently you end up doing menial piecemeal jobs to survive until you can retire.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Having been in a trade where technology made us redundant, it is no fun retraining when in your early fifties as no one wants to employ you due to the age thing. Consequently you end up doing menial piecemeal jobs to survive until you can retire.

Been there and done it.. but workers in their 50's only represent about 20% of the total work force.

You have to make of what you can of life, and take the opportunities that are available to you. I know several 50 year olds who were made redundant and who found mentally and financially rewarding work.

Many jobs these days require you to continue learning (Continual Professional Development) so there is usually retraining required even in mass production assembly work.

 

[Dustydog]

Our petrols are similar, enjoy it and pay the price. Took the Subaru out today first time in 10 days. Could hardly get it above 2000 rpm and then only for a short time, remainder between 1200-1500 rpm. So no turbocharger cleaning on that trip. Must head to Wales next week. 😁

Drive in first gear max rpm😜😜😜

 

[Dustydog]

Let’s hope the problems in the East don’t set us back 20 years. Already Germany is being twitchy. Nord Stream 2 May become a dream or folly. Sadly , tic, we may find ourselves glad we do still have access to a stock pile of fossil fuel.

 

[JezzerB]

There's something to be had for being sidelined into a menial low paid job; just what I've done-I 'd known for about 5 years that my heart wasn't in being a Head Teacher . Seen it all done it all and I was becoming a mood hoover for my poor enthusiastic young staff. Now I know mine was voluntary-I simply worked as long as I could and until I could JUST afford to move to a low paid job with no stress. Am now on minimum wage and loving it. After a year my colleagues still express their consternation that I still seem to love the job so much. My reply-you should've tried doing what i was doing-no fun running two schools with OFSTED, Covid, and every adult you spoke to an expert in education! I'll have to work 5 years longer than I would have done had I stayed put but I now don't wake in the middle of the night to write lists of what had to be done, or in hot sweats about a complaint etc. No stress , zero hours contract so just had a week at Eye Kettleby for the heck of it. Yes it means I need to work some extra shifts this month but I now like work too!

 

[otherclive]

Let’s hope the problems in the East don’t set us back 20 years. Already Germany is being twitchy. Nord Stream 2 May become a dream or folly. Sadly , tic, we may find ourselves glad we do still have access to a stock pile of fossil fuel.

Re one of your previous posts UK gas output from the North Sea and Irish Sea in late 2021 doubled its previous years production rate in the same period. . The bad news is that since UK consumption wasn't particularly high, and we are woefully short of reserve storage (understatement), most went to Belgium and Netherlands. Presumably the companies got a very good price for the exports, so will be paying more tax...... so how about a windfall tax in the budget?

 

[Dustydog]

Re one of your previous posts UK gas output from the North Sea and Irish Sea in late 2021 doubled its previous years production rate in the same period. . The bad news is that since UK consumption wasn't particularly high, and we are woefully short of reserve storage (understatement), most went to Belgium and Netherlands. Presumably the companies got a very good price for the exports, so will be paying more tax...... so how about a windfall tax in the budget?

Romantic 😜.
In the worst case scenario the U.K. still has three massive untapped fields in the Shetlands and North Sea.

 

[Jcloughie]

There's something to be had for being sidelined into a menial low paid job; just what I've done-I 'd known for about 5 years that my heart wasn't in being a Head Teacher . Seen it all done it all and I was becoming a mood hoover for my poor enthusiastic young staff. Now I know mine was voluntary-I simply worked as long as I could and until I could JUST afford to move to a low paid job with no stress. Am now on minimum wage and loving it. After a year my colleagues still express their consternation that I still seem to love the job so much. My reply-you should've tried doing what i was doing-no fun running two schools with OFSTED, Covid, and every adult you spoke to an expert in education! I'll have to work 5 years longer than I would have done had I stayed put but I now don't wake in the middle of the night to write lists of what had to be done, or in hot sweats about a complaint etc. No stress , zero hours contract so just had a week at Eye Kettleby for the heck of it. Yes it means I need to work some extra shifts this month but I now like work too!

I was a head of department (College). Different stresses to schools but still real and still OFSTED. All was good until we got taken over and other government cut backs were in force. I needed to retrain myself into a different institution methods. Even in cases were I could demonstrate my methods were more financially productive. Colleagues were leaving, being sacked or sidelined left right and centre. I went from having responsibility for two discipline areas plus school links to 5. With a large increase in staff.

Then the day came when I was ‘called into the office’. I was told they don’t want to get rid of me but I would have to learn to do things their way. Or I could finish now and have 3 months gardening leave. I came back to them with a counter offer. Get a replacement (I would help), and let me work as a teacher for the rest of the academic year at which time I would retire on the date I wanted to. They could not believe that I was willing to help them get my replacement. I said why shouldn’t I. I had no wish to see things go downhill. They advertised nationally in the Times Ed. no takers. Some of my staff had applied but they did not know them, so they had to come back to me for advice. The person I suggested had not applied and has to be persuaded. A few years later he was a director.

When I offered to step back I knew full well that they could not fill a timetable for me. So I had nearly a year on full pay with little responsibility. Nice warm down. I did offer to show my replacement the ropes but they only allowed me two days. Scared I would show him ‘old ways’. I took him into HR. That is when it hit home. He now had access to records that I had the day before. Now HR staff, quite rightly, kept me away.

The larger amalgamated, college is still going strong. But hated by staff, they very soon wasted the £6m our old small college had saved for a rainy day. I was promised £1m of that. 6 months later I was having difficulty getting invoices paid.

Strange world.

John

 

[caravanstoic]

There have been several differnt topic areas in this thread, what does your comment relate to?

I'm not worried about whether or not electric vehicles will reduce towing range over time, I think it will actually increase as the technology improves.

 

[Raywood]

Towing distances will increase with battery improvements as will over all range. Possibly the problem is that electric vehicles seem to e more affected by towing with the range being possibly halved, whereas I loose about a quarter with an ICE. I do not know why this is but it is a problem.

 

[RogerL]

Towing distances will increase with battery improvements as will over all range. Possibly the problem is that electric vehicles seem to e more affected by towing with the range being possibly halved, whereas I loose about a quarter with an ICE. I do not know why this is but it is a problem.

It's down to speed - based on the WLTP profile I lose 50% when towing but then I lose 25% when solo - for both IC and EV, the WLTP is way too generous compared to most drivers' real world figures.

 

[Tobes]

Towing distances will increase with battery improvements as will over all range. Possibly the problem is that electric vehicles seem to e more affected by towing with the range being possibly halved, whereas I loose about a quarter with an ICE. I do not know why this is but it is a problem.

That's not my experience. EV solo I get 190 to 210 miles range. Towing its 120 to 130. I.e. less than half impact.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Towing distances will increase with battery improvements as will over all range. Possibly the problem is that electric vehicles seem to e more affected by towing with the range being possibly halved, whereas I loose about a quarter with an ICE. I do not know why this is but it is a problem.

All cars do loose range when towing compared to driving solo, and the same is true when you add a roof rack or put more load in the car, its all to to do with the amount of energy you need to move the vehicle under the prevailing circumstances.

The problem for most BEV's is the battery capacity. Presently a 100kWh battery pack is seen as quite large, but the energy it can store would be matched by just about 11L of petrol! Now we must also take into account that ICE engines are not very efficient so in practice that wold be the equivalent of putting about 25 to 30L of petrol or diesel in a car.

Now consider if that is all the fuel you could put in your car, and teh car was also as heavy as a BEV, I think most people would begin to have concerns for how far they could travel, and they would see a similar range deficit when towing.

 

[RogerL]

That's not my experience. EV solo I get 190 to 210 miles range. Towing its 120 to 130. I.e. less than half impact.

But more than 50% reduction on the WLTP figure, more like 60%.

 

[Buckman]

With our 3.0L diesel we do about 12 litres per 100km or roughly about 22-23mpg when towing. A lot depends on traffic and road conditions, weather i.e. wind etc. When solo it is about 8.5 litres per 100km or about 34 mpg.

 

[Dustydog]

Battery technology has moved forward at a fantastic pace. On an earlier post I said some batteries will actually form part of the vehicles superstructure. It is mind blowing the progress being made. One of my EVs is lead acid , the other Li. The performances are markedly different.The Li lasting far longer for the same distance and recharge time. Agreed not quite a valid experiment but overall the Li is brilliant in delivery, capacity, charging time and performance.
I am confident by 2030 New vehicles will be available to give me the towing performance and distance I enjoy. The downside is when reality strikes and at my age I cannot afford to buy the new car😥😥

 

[Tobes]

But more than 50% reduction on the WLTP figure, more like 60%.

That depends very much on the car. Some have WLTP figures that are actually very close to the real world range. Personally, I take WLTP figures with a huge pinch of salt. What is important of course is not the WLTP, but the end results. So far I have seen my V60 take the biggest hit over solo range from towing. Then the Polestar, then the XC90. But that is because other than towing the XC90 did very short (uneconomic) journeys (av 25mpg), so the long tows looked comparitavly good (av 23mpg). But it was (with hindsight) poor from a poor base. The V60 does about 25-28mpg towing, would do 40+ MGP on a long run, but round town on local journeys is 72mpg - because its a PHEV.
The Polestar 2 impact is somewhere between the two, but does both long and short journeys solo. It does all our solo driving, because its so darn nice to drive!

 

[JezzerB]

As above, our Mini is by far the best drive; we swapped our 2018 228bhp Clubman JCW for it-simply because it was more fun, more refined and of course saves too!

 

[otherclive]

As above, our Mini is by far the best drive; we swapped our 2018 228bhp Clubman JCW for it-simply because it was more fun, more refined and of course saves too!

If the BEV Mini is better than the 228bhp Ckubman it must be awesome. On a more mundane level our daughters Corolla Self Charging Hybrid has now done 325 miles and it’s saying the overall mpg is 53 mpg. Although it’s early days yet this compares with her 1.6 lt Focus that averaged 32-35 mpg and multiple powershift boxes. On an evening trip into Bath of 12 miles her app on the phone told her 8 miles had been on battery and there were three in the car. Based on usage so far she thinks it will only cost her around half what the Focus cost in fuel, plus no other costs apart from insurance. So just on fuel savings alone it could effectively reduce her monthly lease fee by a good amount, Remains to be seen but she’s still learning how to get the best out of the cars characteristics.

 

[JezzerB]

Honestly it's far more fun and of course saves a fortune. I miss the decent boot pretty wheels and seats but nothing else. It feels far quicker and just makes me smile every time I drive it. The Corolla is a great car and the warranty unbeatable . Nice looks too. And sounds v cost effective.