Worrying news from JLR!

[otherclive]

I have been reading an interview with the Design Director for JLR and their objective is for large SUVs to weigh no more than 1500kg and small/medium ones not to exceed 1000kg. The Evoque replacement comes into the 1000kg objective category. Now he did not say how long it would take to achieve the objectives so it could be three Evoque or Range Rover generations in the future. But what was very clear was their determination for each successive generation to be lighter than the outgoing model. As we know the new RR is 400kg less than the previous model. JLR have invested heavily in high strength steel and aluminium fabrications and see the futuer going via aluminium, magnesium alloys, carbon fibre and composites and potentially graphene based parts. He stressed that being a maker of premium cacrs JLR would be better placed to use these more exotic materials than would the smaller mass produced cars. But even here we see VAG have shed 100kg from the new Golf and it is a larger car than the outgoing model.

It will be interesting to see how the caravan world responds to the drive for lighter cars which still retain a towing limit well above their Mass in Service. Applying the 85% guidance to say a 1300kg Evoque/Freelander3 would give you a MTPLM of 1105kg. Given that the future generations of cars will be lighter, have stiffer bodyshells and better suspension aided by electronics the caravan world will have to seriously start to think what their response will be and must consider the car-caravan combination as a holistic system.
Me I will be buying shares in Eriba, or Gobur which have low MIRO and massive payloads!

 

[Lutz]

The weight shedding trend among car manufacturers is something we will have to accept and it is doubtful whether the caravan makers will be able to follow suit to the same degree. There is undoubtedly some opportunity for some weight reduction in caravans but the manufacturers simply haven't got the resources to carry out sophisticated development programmes on the subject of weight reduction and the production volumes involved don't allow cost effective use of expensive exotic materials.
Sooner or later the 85% weight ratio recommendation will have to be rethought or else the choice of what one will be able to tow will become very limited. The only alternative is to provide technical solutions to allow safe towing at significantly higher weight ratios. Electronic stabilisers such as TSP and AlKo's ATC (and others) are a first step.

 

[otherclive]

Lutz I totally agree and the first time a new Golf comes up for TCOY or equivalent test it will have a caravan weight reduced by some 85kg compared to the outgoing model. So it should perform very well against smaller class cars whose weight may not have been reduced so much, but as a usable towcar taking 85kg away (based on 85% guide) will limit its sales to those who follow the guidance slavishly ie Magazines and the two major Clubs. However this is unlikley to bother VAG too much as cars are made for large volume sales and the minority sold to caravanners really doesnt feature much on the designers horizon.

 

[Surfer]

The good news is that in the future, gas guzzling 4 x 4s will fetch premium prices as they will be the only vehicles that can tow caravans!

 

[otherclive]

Yep that's why I plan to hold onto our two.

 

[JohnGriffiths]

I wouldn't get too despondent about this. There was certainly no shortage of large twin axle caravans at the show this week, and a notable lack of small, light, basic vans as mentioned in the magazine this month. There will be a requirement for heavy duty vehicles for the foreseeable future, if only Navara type trucks used by tradespeople, or small commercial vans. There's a limit to how light you can make something designed to carry a tonne. In addition the market for 7 seater people carriers isn't insignificant, and most of these have high weight/towing capacity. It's not time to panic, I'm certainly not ready to swap to a trailer tent yet (or ever).

 

[otherclive]

My OP was a little tongue in cheek, but even as you say there is a dearth of smaller lighter vans. I suspect that is because they cannot be made profitably due to relatively low production volumes and high labour demands. It wasn't until robots came into the motor industry that costs began to fall but even now a small car is less profitable than a larger more upmarket model. However caravan makers would find the costs of automating their lines far too high.
Yes there will always be larger vehicles around but the trend to lighter vehicles will continue and ignoring this trend will possibly lead to younger people not starting to caravan and less well of pensioners stopping caravanning as the age of generous pensions passes on!

 

[ProfJohnL]

I tend to agree with Clive about the costs and commitment any caravan manufacture would have to make to automate the whole production, but I know there is considerable scope for them to
introduce better manufacturing processes to improve right first time assembly, to reduce waste and scrap, and to lift profitability and customer satisfaction.

This would allow them greater financial scope to invest in weight saving developments.

 

[Surfer]

We have a 1996 Toyota Corolla 1300 automatic which does about 35mpg urban. The car weighs as much as some of the new crossovers as it is a very solid car and can probably town in excess of its own weight quite easily. In one way I think I prefer solid to lightweight that crumples if you lean on it.

 

[Gybe]

Composites, plastics, alluminium and the use of honycomb structures has to come to caravans sooner or later. Even with Lutz's ideas we need the weight cutting for fuel savings.
Lightweight doesn't translate to "crumples if you lean on it" if it's done well these days. I returned a very expensive crashed sportscar to the manufacture and had a guided tour of their manufacturing facility. There was nothing flimsy that would crumple and the weight was nothing due to clever honecomb structures. If the will and need is there it will come in time.

 

[JonnyG]

Alas i dont think having old weighty towcars as an answer will last much longar, know doubt soon vehicles pre 2001 will be hit with high road tax,its inevatable,and then even post 2001 cars with what was thourght of as acceptable CO levels, say 170 or 180 will also start to climb at even greater price levels,as tax shortfalls from roadtax get greater due to the ave car CO print steeply improving..

 

[Parksy]

I'd agree that 4x4s which weigh in at well over 2 tonnes will become a thing of the past but technology will ensure that caravans will still be towed by vehicles which use less fuel but can pull average sized caravans.
This is borne out in the April issue of Practical Caravan magazine's article 'Take the Hybrid Road' (page 100).
Mitsubishi have developed an all wheel drive plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) which weighs in at around 1800kg, reportedly puts out around 220bhp and returns an impressive claimed 150+ mpg combined which means low taxation. It is supposed to be in European showrooms by the middle of next year, so I don't think that we'll need to consider selling the caravan and buying a tent just yet.

 

[Raywood]

I simply cannot see how the likes of the Range Rover and Toyota Land Cruiser can get their weights down to the figures suggested and perhaps there is an element of the market where weight is not a priority and so the heavier caravans will always have something to tow them. The average car is getting lighter however and we need caravans to follow suit but without a complete redesign it is difficult to see how any realy large saving can be made. Perhaps a return of the aluminium chassis would help as used by Trophy and at one time Lunar and a paring down of equipment levels may be needed in the short term. I would suggest that an oven or microwave could be regarded as alternative options rather than you needing both or these could be delete options if you do not use both.

 

[otherclive]

Raywood you certainly make a valid point but we shouldn't underestimate the industries ability to deliver much lower weight cars. After all 400 kg from the new Range Rover and 100 kg from the Golf despite both cars being larger than the outgoing models. The new Mondeo will be lighter and one option is rumoured to have a 3 cylinder sub 1 litre engine! 10 years ago who would have placed a bet on makers achieving today's emissions figures? I guess that the heavier vehicles capable of towing today's van weights will be pickups or old Pajeros!!!