4 X 4's popular again!

[xtrailman]

lorraine

I agree with everything you say, apart from using the sea to generate electricity, you can't install and maintain plant in the sea with out pollution.

Lutz

I don't want to appear as the "lets pick on lutz to day brigade"

But according to the TV, britain pays more in tax for petrol/diesel, than any other country in the EC.

Even the pro climate lobby, accept that if britain did not exist, then the climate would only benefit by 2%.

Climate change will continue regardless.

 

[Lutz]

lorraine

I agree with everything you say, apart from using the sea to generate electricity, you can't install and maintain plant in the sea with out pollution.

Lutz

I don't want to appear as the "lets pick on lutz to day brigade"

But according to the TV, britain pays more in tax for petrol/diesel, than any other country in the EC.

Even the pro climate lobby, accept that if britain did not exist, then the climate would only benefit by 2%.

Climate change will continue regardless.

I can't confirm or otherwise what you say about UK fuel tax being the highest in Europe, but petrol prices today (31st December) are about the same as in Germany.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

quite a interesting set of posts from lorraine in the context of bury your head in the sand as theres nowt we can do about it point of view.

some of the points made are true and relevent but some are wide of the mark as pointed out by lutz, true man had no effect on the icecaps either before or after the the last ice age and the cycle of the sun has more to do with global warming than mans intervention same has the eliptical orbit of the earth around it. It is also worth remembering that with continental drift and rising and falling sea levels the earths land mass has been changing for millions of years effecting the climate of this bit of it we call britain long ago it was not an island but part of the eurasian land mass that was actually near the equator and coverered in rain forest (where the coal comes from) it was cut off from the rest of europe when the icecaps melted and the sea level rose. all undeniable however as lutz would agree it is not the fact that climate change is happening at all it is the accelerated rate that the change is taking place it can and has been measured, where it took thousands of years for the ice to receed before now its receeding by the decade in 50 to 100 years most of the ice will have gone sea levels will rise due to the melt water by a meter or so and the worlds climate would change dramaticaly there's the rub a lot of the worlds land mass is less than 1mtr above sea level and unlike millions of years ago the population is not mobile but fixed into areas called countries, imagine the cost of a billion refugees as the land dissapears below the water.

perhaps it is not all our fault and would happen anyway but even someone with eyes full of sand can surely see that all that co2 emmitted since the dawn of the industrial age in conjunction with cutting down an area of rain forest the size of wales every day cannot be good for the enviroment I am with LB on this point sceptical of the the motivies but open minded enough to realise it is not us that will pay the ultimate price as most of us will not be around that long it is our grand children and their offspring that will have to cope with the legacy we leave them and that is the most worrying bit.

colin

 

[Oldsalt49]

As a passing shot, we will pollute when we die. Our bodies burning in the furnaces will add to the problem, whether we are greenies, sceptics or whatever.

 

[Gafferbill]

If you think humans cause global warming.....then the solution must be birth control!

Perhaps I missed the fact that 4x4's somehow increase the amount of procreation .......or am I missing out!

 

[xtrailman]

The fiction of global warming is simply a ready tool for governments to increase tax revenue.

If the government was serious about reducing pollution from cars, why are the gas guzzlers even allowed in the country?

As an aside, although using an handheld mobile is an offence, car makers are still producing cars with out bluetooth built in, crazy. All the government is good for, is making laws, not actually solving problems.

Regarding the felling of trees, which i dislike my self, remember that most of england was once forest, until we destroyed it, along with large areas of america.

To condemn, developing countries for simply doing what we have already done, i find bizarre?

I only have one car, that only covers 7k a year, it can obtain 40mpg plus, in my live i have only gone abroad ten times, most of my touring holidays only cover up to 2 hours towing, while i am on site the water and electricity is effectively rationed.

My carbon footprint would be difficult to reduce any further.

 

[Oldsalt49]

Ray said "while i am on site the water and electricity is effectively rationed."

Ray, why would you want to ration your use of electricity on site, you have paid handsomely for it? If you think that your tiny contribution would make any difference in the scheme of things you are wrong. Look at any unmanned office building at night and see the wasted resources. China knocks up a new badly polluting power station every week, but still we buy the goods produced there, so its a never ending circle.

David

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

as fraizer would say "were'r all doomed mr manwaring were'r all doomed",

 

[baggy2508]

I am not a particularly religious person, but perhaps is this where the story "Noahs Ark" comes from? Sea levels, heavy rain, its starting to sound familiar now.

All governments feel the need to be "seen" to be doing something, perhaps extra taxes will help to relocate people, I just wish they would be more honest about it, we have many years before things get really bad, but people are moving away from their poor countries and already trying to resettle in the EU, where food is already short we are seeing mass immigration, people don't just sit there and starve like they used to, they know with better communication nowadays that there are places on earth where there is food, and like your cavemen Lutz, they are already moving. It makes our daily lives driving around in whatever vehicle we need pan into insignificance if you dare to look at the bigger picture.

If we bury our heads in the sand, then we know there are enough resources for our lifetime and hopefully our children. I have two new grandsons, and I do fear for them although I do believe there will be alternative resources. For example, we do not use the rising sea to our advantage, with desalination plants they could irrigate the dry desert areas to grow crops. We have not researched the use of wave and tidal power, the UK has the possibility of free power just by harnessing wave power but it doesn't choose to. The public are against nuclear power stations, they don't like tall ugly wind turbines, but wave power would be hidden under the sea.

Yes, we will all probably have to have electric cars in the future, but the batteries to run the cars are an ecological nightmare. Man will adjust to the changing earth, he has managed to so far, we have to work with it, and it would be very helpful if the population could be better controlled, perhaps it would be better if government didn't encourage large families to help ease the burden on earth, but the climate will carry on regardless of what we do, we just need to acknowledge that we must work with changes and try to use them to our advantage, we can't stop or alter the earth's natural thermostat, but it is very wrong that governments raise taxes in such a dishonest way, it sets man against man arguing about whose car is more environmentally friendly when in actual fact it just doesn't make the slightest difference - only to the owners pocket - the ice is going to melt anyway, whether we are here or not, any taxes raised should be used to start planning for new food production in areas where it is too dry etc, homes should be planned that possibly float! Anything would be better than governments just creaming off our money and using it to bailout banks etc!

lorraine.

Agree with every word you have said,the earth is doing what comes naturally.

Regards John

 

[ShadySadie]

The last time I looked a Bentley, Aston Martin or a Range Rover cost a lot more than a Fiat 500. Profit and tax paid on the purchase of the 500 is also a lot less than on the luxury models. The exchequer makes more from luxury models even before fuel tax and revenues from insurance and servicing is included.

The week before Christmas the finacial experts were concerned about the increase in the UK inflation rate. The main factor in the increase was the increase in fuel prices. We're axpected to be paying an extra 15+ pence a gallon after the VAT increase comes fully in place.

UK inflation and cost of living will spiral again and less will be in work and more people will be on the bread line. Scrapage schemes around the world were brought in to get auto sales going.

Yet "The sooner we get the message that the cost of private motoring is inevitably going to increase disproportionately compared to the cost of living, the better" according to our Mr Lutz.

The cheaper the cost of motoring the more we have in work.

Britain was attached to Europe once, water levels will rise! Many of the islands under threat from sea levels survive on tourism, no doubt the unemployed will paddle their canoes to the islands for their hols when Lutz and others have stopped the cars and planes!

Todays weather says we are having the coldest winter for a hundred years, some renowned scientists are saying a new ice age is coming.

If the EU were to ban rich Germany from manufacturing cars and all automotive products and using them, may be they would show us how much stronger their economy will become as an example to their European cousins and the rest of the world. I bet China would close down Jag and Land Rover in a flash and go back to bikes and rickshaws ;-)

 

[Lutz]

Neither I nor anyone else is thinking about banning cars or planes. If I were, I wouldn't be driving around in a 3 litre SUV and my wife wouldn't have a car of her own, either. I'm just saying that we've got to become accustomed to the fact that personal transportation is going to get disproportionately more expensive in the foreseeable future.

When you say that you're having the coldest weather for a hundred years then that, if it's true, applies only locally, not globally. It may well be that some parts of the world will get colder although on overall, the temperatures will rise. The fact that global warming is occurring is not seriously being disputed. What is controversial in some circles is whether the cause is entirely man-made or not. Either way it's going to have major repercussions in the way we live.

 

[Heethers]

Well for once the Shogun came into its own ferrying the oldies to Tesco and back with their weekly shop, loved every minute of it especially when save the earth group across the way couldn't get their 1 year old Toyota Prius started, when they did passed them on the way back stuck half way up the hill parked making several trips to and from home to car to unload.

Now you may say l should have been a good Samaritan and offered my assistance, na eat ya heart out tree huggers we will be out today with the dogs enjoying the snow covered moors.

Will enjoy even more tomorrow when they will need to walk to work

 

[Sproket]

What a lovely morning snow and lots of it :O)

Well i was going to get the dog sled out (

But i think it will be more fun in the wife's disco )

Or i could go out in mine, the more friendly version, do i go 4x2 or press the button on the dash and go 4x4 )

Come on dogs save your energy get in the truck and up the quarry we go )

( don't want to tire them out before we get there do we ( )

 

[xtrailman]

David

When i say water and electricity is effectively rationed, consider my caravan only has a 10amp cb for the sockets/fire, i am limited to only 2kw, if i could i would have the fixed fire on 2kw, and my portable fan heater on 2kw, as it is, both are on 1kw.

Rest assured i am using my allowance, i have a twin electric hob, and never use the gas, unless we lose power, or the fridge breaks on the 240volt element.(which it has done 3 times since 2004).

I don't have a bath in my van, and never use a fixed mains, so all water is used sparingly, to reduce the trips to the water tap.

Sprocket

Get your self an Xtrail, my xtrail never comes out of auto, so selects 4x4 on demand, and is recognised as one of the very best in snow, not sure why just what the road testers say.

 

[Surfer]

If some one can prove to me beyond any doubt that the motor car definitely affects the climate then I may consider changing my car. Up to now all they have been able to prove is that it is the biggest scam going as per the falsified figures from the East Anglian University.

After all, what contributes the most CO2, a volcano in one day or all the cars in the world in one year? What about shiips? In essence Ethopia is one of the main contributors towards CO2 emissions as it has an active volcano plus numerous fire pits belching out CO2 in vast volumes which makes the contribution by mankind look insignificant.

As for global warming try telling that to the people who froze to death in the recent cold snap and why is the Antartica growing at a faster rate than at any other tiem in the past 100 years. Global warming is a myth but deinitely a stealth tax!

Besides if no CO2, we all die as plants need it to survive and if no plants no us!

 

[Heethers]

Well said Ian, agree with you another hidden tax from Goverments

 

[Sproket]

David

When i say water and electricity is effectively rationed, consider my caravan only has a 10amp cb for the sockets/fire, i am limited to only 2kw, if i could i would have the fixed fire on 2kw, and my portable fan heater on 2kw, as it is, both are on 1kw.

Rest assured i am using my allowance, i have a twin electric hob, and never use the gas, unless we lose power, or the fridge breaks on the 240volt element.(which it has done 3 times since 2004).

I don't have a bath in my van, and never use a fixed mains, so all water is used sparingly, to reduce the trips to the water tap.

Sprocket

Get your self an Xtrail, my xtrail never comes out of auto, so selects 4x4 on demand, and is recognised as one of the very best in snow, not sure why just what the road testers say.

Ray the X-trail might tow my van but i would not have any payload, i still have 3/4 ton with the truck

 

[Lutz]

If some one can prove to me beyond any doubt that the motor car definitely affects the climate then I may consider changing my car. Up to now all they have been able to prove is that it is the biggest scam going as per the falsified figures from the East Anglian University.

After all, what contributes the most CO2, a volcano in one day or all the cars in the world in one year? What about shiips? In essence Ethopia is one of the main contributors towards CO2 emissions as it has an active volcano plus numerous fire pits belching out CO2 in vast volumes which makes the contribution by mankind look insignificant.

As for global warming try telling that to the people who froze to death in the recent cold snap and why is the Antartica growing at a faster rate than at any other tiem in the past 100 years. Global warming is a myth but deinitely a stealth tax!

Besides if no CO2, we all die as plants need it to survive and if no plants no us!

Seems weird to single out Ethiopia and Antarctica. Without maintaining an overall perspective it'll always be possible to find exceptions to prove a point. Besides, we've had volcanoes for millions of years and they don't seem to have had any lasting effect on global temperatures, whether during the Ice Age or at any other time. Overall global warming is certainly not a myth, although the causes are perhaps debatable. A lot of what has been said or written is based on conjecture, but is seems dangerous to me not to attempt to do anything just because others aren't or because just one single cause cannot be identified. I'm prepared to give benefit to doubt.

 

[Gafferbill]

......us flat earthers have hedged our bets.

If it gets too hot...... we will just go to the other side in the shade!

 

[Surfer]

Seems weird to single out Ethiopia and Antarctica. Without maintaining an overall perspective it'll always be possible to find exceptions to prove a point. Besides, we've had volcanoes for millions of years and they don't seem to have had any lasting effect on global temperatures, whether during the Ice Age or at any other time. Overall global warming is certainly not a myth, although the causes are perhaps debatable. A lot of what has been said or written is based on conjecture, but is seems dangerous to me not to attempt to do anything just because others aren't or because just one single cause cannot be identified. I'm prepared to give benefit to doubt.

Ethiopia was an example but singled out because it wants western money to combat the myth.

 

[Parksy]

Although my Trundle Truck is a 4x4 I rarely use the 4wheel drive.

I prefer mine because the weight of the vehicle makes towing my caravan safer.

The climate change lobbyists have not proved that climate change is taking place as a result of the activities of mankind. Most news reports are based on conjecture, I was watching a report this morning from the Falkland Islands. It was delivered in the usual dramatic doom mongering style but it was based on what 'might' happen and the 'possible' outcome of climate change.

The entire issue has become debased and devalued because of the constant nagging propaganda coupled with the stated intention to make us pay.

The met office are amongst the worst offenders. They can't predict what the weather will be like in a weeks time yet they expect us to believe that they can predict weather patterns fifty years from now! Barbecue Summer next year anyone?

You can bet that if all politicians are as keen on one issue as they all appear to be about 'global warming'then there must be something in it which will be of benefit to them.

It provides them with another tool with which to control, bully, spy on us and tax us even more.

 

[Lutz]

Seems weird to single out Ethiopia and Antarctica. Without maintaining an overall perspective it'll always be possible to find exceptions to prove a point. Besides, we've had volcanoes for millions of years and they don't seem to have had any lasting effect on global temperatures, whether during the Ice Age or at any other time. Overall global warming is certainly not a myth, although the causes are perhaps debatable. A lot of what has been said or written is based on conjecture, but is seems dangerous to me not to attempt to do anything just because others aren't or because just one single cause cannot be identified. I'm prepared to give benefit to doubt.

I think you'll find that countries like Ethiopia are after our money whether due to global warming or not. If it isn't global warming, they'd find another reason.

 

[ShadySadie]

If we all fall for the political spin "that personal transportation is going to get disproportionately more expensive in the foreseeable future" we will divide our society even more so in to a them and us society. Those with above average incomes will drive and poorer folk will be off the road.

Rural areas that are already under threat and rely on cars will just die.

The inflation will just crush business and very many families will suffer more so than now.

Motoring for the masses at cheaper costs is the way forward for our economy and a way to provide more employment.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

what some fail to understand is the ramifications of doing nothing just because it every pundit and scientist does not agree 100% on one course of action to cure the problem.

the 3 biggest poluters China India and the US wont really listen to any argument that suggests they may be wrong to carry on and in fact increase their polution size purely on economic grounds and to hell with the enviroment in the belief that all the talk of global warming and climate change is hot air so to speak "like some on this forum" however by the time they realise something has gone wrong it will probably be too late.

when new york is so flooded the only way to get round is by boat and the state of mississippi has become the words largest lake or india has to find homes for the millions of refugees from bangladesh, no ammout of polution reduction will make the slightest difference.

not that this will mean much to us in the UK as by that time we will ALL be riding round in 4x4s because the melt water from the north pole will have diverted or switched off the gulf stream and we will have the same weather patterns as all the other countries on the same lattitude as us ie: canada and siberia.

sorry folks but global warming does not mean heat waves for us just the opposite, rain and floods in summer -20+ and deep snow in winter. on the brighter side at least we might get a decent winter oylimpics team together for future games. but hey it won't affect most of us as we will not be around by then so enjoy the camping while you can. and when you decide to change the van for a new one consider buying a boat instead it may be of more use later.

 

[colin-yorkshire1]

If we all fall for the political spin "that personal transportation is going to get disproportionately more expensive in the foreseeable future" we will divide our society even more so in to a them and us society. Those with above average incomes will drive and poorer folk will be off the road.

Rural areas that are already under threat and rely on cars will just die.

The inflation will just crush business and very many families will suffer more so than now.

Motoring for the masses at cheaper costs is the way forward for our economy and a way to provide more employment.

sorry sadie but the them and us society has been with us a long time now someone in your position will should know that.

more bigger cars standing for longer periods in traffic jams is deinitly not the answer, :- any further comment could be considered political and therefore inappropriate.