4x4 thread

[Lutz]

If you're overtaking you shouldn't be waving at anyone but concentrating on driving.

Having said that, I doubt whether, in principle, a 4x4 should be any more reliable than a non-4x4, or vice versa. I hazard a guess that the make says more about the car's reliability than what type of car it is. Nevertheless, whichever side of the fence you're sitting on, you'll always be able to find an example to prove your own point.

 

[Essexeddie]

Did anybody see Top Gear Driving to the North Pole in a TOYOTA?

I rest my case!

 

[Jazman]

Posted in wrong place before.

"Knowing the reaction of some 4 x 4 owners who can not see past the glossy paimtwork of their baby, I will try and tread with care.

Are you saying that brutish 4 x 4's are more reliable than other cars Essexeddie? Having had a few myself I can assure you that theya are probably more likely to suffer transmission failures.

Having had top of the range 4 x 4's that have added to the statistics of them being some of the least reliable cars on the market you have to be blowing in the wind friend."

ps.

Essexeddie. When the Caravan Club or C & CC open a site at the North Pole and P&O start a ferry sevice you may have a valid point, until then most caravanners have no need for SUV's.

 

[Diane1]

And so the great 4x4 debate goes on!

To The Gentleman with Mondeao St. Nice car - i like them they have plenty of guts, personally don't like Fords, but that is a nice car.

To the Gentleman who,s wife needs to see out the rear, my husband had reversing cammeras fitted to our 4x4 as i am 5.2.

Am aware of a few cars that would pull our T/A, but out of personal preference, we pull it with a 4x4. The great thing about this is its a pick up and the dogs go in the back and not in the cab, So not dog fur or smells. Max the rotty get quite an upset tum when we travel. Hold nose!

Also when i have to travel to work in ice and bad weather in the winter, it is very handy!

 

[Jazman]

You have some funny ideas here.

We now have a 4 x 4 pick-up challenging cars/4 x 4 cars.

Come on Diane, the current range of 4 x 4 pickups still offer fairly agricultural rides and pretty slow gutless performance in normal driving.

Most of the pick-ups cabs are quite limited space wise and if you have the dogs in the back, space and people and luggage capacity is obviously not an issue for you.

Our MPV can tow a 2000KG caravan and still be within the 85% guide line. With seven seated we still have getting on for double the boot space of a Disco and about 700 litres more than a Landcruiser without using al the exra space available in the cabin. When you make a choice on towcar we found that 4 wheel drive is probably the last thing to consider if you have a big fazmily to carry and all their luggage. 4 wheel drive capability that many will use for much less than 1% of the time they drive the car is of little benefit and when ice, snow and flooding is on the road police advise ALL drivers to stay off the road!

We sold our old Disco 3 to oursleves as we were 4 x 4 owners. 7 seats, big diesel lump, and it seemed to fit the bill re towing needs and space. You can compromise, but compromise does not replace comfort space and shear tugging ability. Mercedes offer a large MPV with very powerfull engines compared to most 4 x 4's and I dont know of any SUV that can come anywhere near the space that our MPV offers

 

[Lutz]

To design a car so as not to be able to see out of the back and then expect people to spend money on reversing cameras and/or parking sensors seems to be a rather back to front approach and only a money-making exercise on the part of the manufacturers. Why not do the job properly in the first instance by giving the car a large back window with a low bottom edge and avoid all that unnecessary expense?.

 

[Val & Frank]

MPVs big brutish things, Land cruiser big and brutish, Merc estate big and brutish.

So we are arguing over choice of drive train, 2 wheel front drive, two wheel rear drive, or all four wheels. That's it !! The choice is YOURS get what you want to suit yourself, stuff the others they bought what they wanted, be it 4x4, MPVs, or a Big Estate Car.

I can't see what the fuss is over except, my cars better than your car Hahahaha. I said once before the chancellor can't really Tax a drive train, so it was on emmissions I don't agree because I only drive a few thousand miles a year in our LC my wife can drive twice as far in her polo. The tax don't make sense, and at the end of the day it up to us all to complain about that, MPV or Big estate or 4x4

Val & Frank

 

[S-MaxJon]

Jonathan Quote " I'll stick with my Mondeo ST and wave when I'm overtaking you on a motorway incline.

I didn't know RAC recovery trucks with a car and caravan on the back could go that fast !!!!!!

Frank

Thats a bit harsh !!!!!!

 

[S-MaxJon]

Did anybody see Top Gear Driving to the North Pole in a TOYOTA?

I rest my case!

Is there a caravan site up there? If so are they taking bookings for next easter !!!!

 

[S-MaxJon]

I have nothing against the cars personally - personal choice.What I do dislike is people who try to justify having these large cars by having lame excuses - like travelling to the North Pole or getting stuck in mud etc.

If you have a heavy van and need a 4x4 then fair enough but how often do you see a big lumbering Shogun and ilk towing 2 berthers or similar towinglightweight vans ????

 

[S-MaxJon]

Friend had two brand new top of the range Mondeo's

Both broke down whilst towing to spain.

Clutch and gearbox problems!

Stick with a 4x4 son!!!!!!!!

They must have been a very good driver to drive 2 cars.

 

[Val & Frank]

Jonathan,

You are the voice of reason " I have nothing against the cars personally " then " but how often do you see a big lumbering Shogun or ilk pulling a two berth caravan " ??

Because they choose to do that. They spent their money on their choice, it has nothing to do with you or me.

They have paid a price for carbon offset, they are helping to buy trains, and buses with the extra revenue raised by the goverment on road fund tax.

What more can anyone ask ???

Val & Frank

 

[Lutz]

In fairness, those that tow lightweight caravans with big 4x4's may be doing so because they need the 4x4 primarily for other purposes or perhaps they particularly like 4x4's. That's OK by me. What annoys me, though, are the people that come up with some threadbare and supposedly rational argument to justify their purchase (reliability, apparent safety, etc.) when all along it was a purely subjective decision, but they are not prepared to admit it. I get the impression that some have even brainwashed themselves into actually believing that the real reason was an objective and not a subjective one. Either that or they have more money than sense, but then what people do with their money is up to them.

 

[Val & Frank]

That's OK by me. What annoys me, though, are the people that come up with some threadbare and supposedly rational argument to justify their purchase

Because they feel they have to, they perceive they are being attacked by all sides. Even the Chancellor made a remark about 4x4s, not just high emmission vehicles. It's a drive train for goodness sake.

" What annoys me " Rational Argument to You and Me, may say a totally different interpetation of rational to someone else. The word subjective and objective spring to mind once again. It's a choice thing, I feel more comfortable towing with my Big 4x4 than I would towing with a Big Merc estate. Now I don't want some rational thought as to why a Big Merc could do the job as well or even better than my 4x4. Because it has nothing to do with anyone else only ME

Val & Frank

 

[Lutz]

Now there's an honest answer:

"I feel more comfortable towing with my Big 4x4 than I would towing with a Big Merc estate"

If that word "feel" isn't subjective I don't know what is, but there are too many who would suggest that anything else than what they've got (whatever that is) is inferior and they will try to convince others of the same.

The 4x4 argument will never have a definitive answer because there is no rational case which overwhelms all others and is applicable to all.

 

[Jazman]

Yes buy for your own reasons, when we bought are present caravan the salesman asked if we had a 4 x 4, we did and then changed to a 7 seat Disco for the family reasons.

After many years of 4 x 4's we now find that they are not a requirement when towing a large caravan. Our car does normal towing better and in more comfort for all the family and our luggage compared to any 4 x 4 I've driven or know of.

If you're a couple or small family who choose to tow a large caravan a 4 x 4 is probably the best option re weight, but don't kid yourself that you need AWDC off road abilities to get your Senator or Amara across the grass at most camp sites in Europe.

 

[Val & Frank]

Hi Lutz,

If that word "feel" isn't subjective I don't know what is.

1000% in agreement.

Yep I feel comfortable in my 4x4.

Yep I feel comfortable in my Merc.

Yep I feel comfortable in my Mondeo.

Yep I feel comfortable in my BMW.

All subjective opinions

I feel comfortable because I can afford to drive what I want to drive. (does not say I agree with the costs )

Envy is another word very much associated with what you drive ie Chelsea Tractor. Note Not just a Tractor, but a " Chelsea Tractor " so 4x4s have been associated with one of the richest areas of the UK. Why is it not a Gateshead Tractor ?? ( sorry to Gateshead people )or a Swansea Tractor ??

Is driving a 4x4 or large MPV at a higher tax rate anything to do with Climate Change or Global Warming ?? b=*&&%$

 

[Val & Frank]

Jazzman

quote "After many years of 4 x 4's we now find that they are not a requirement when towing a large caravan. Our car does normal towing better and in more comfort for all the family and our luggage compared to any 4 x 4 I've driven or know of.

Excellent another Happy Customer, what car do you use to tow your large van??

Val & Frank

 

[Essexeddie]

Posted in wrong place before.

"Knowing the reaction of some 4 x 4 owners who can not see past the glossy paimtwork of their baby, I will try and tread with care.

Are you saying that brutish 4 x 4's are more reliable than other cars Essexeddie? Having had a few myself I can assure you that theya are probably more likely to suffer transmission failures.

Having had top of the range 4 x 4's that have added to the statistics of them being some of the least reliable cars on the market you have to be blowing in the wind friend."

ps.

Essexeddie. When the Caravan Club or C & CC open a site at the North Pole and P&O start a ferry sevice you may have a valid point, until then most caravanners have no need for SUV's.

I'm talking about Toyota.

Most reliable car going.

Why do you think the UN use them all the time abroad.

I dont know what 4x4 you had [price does not indicate the best] but I have been owning them for 30years, never had a transmission falure, and we lived down an unmade road which would have been impassable in the winter.

I think you are pooing in the wind

 

[Jazman]

I agree Frank that envy is one of the main factors in the 4 x 4 and many car debates.

I have already put said what my car is!

Need to seat four Adults and three teenagers = 7 seater. I have a 7 seat Mercedes extra long wheelbase rear wheel drive 3 litre CDI Auto Viano. 240+hp and 500nm torque @ 1600-1800.

I test drove the same style Viano with a 2.2 CDI towing a twin axle Coachman prior to trading in our Disco 3 for the beast. Even the 2.2 did a good job even with 500cc less than the disco. Space and comfort for our extended family leaves the Disco and others far far behind.

 

[Val & Frank]

Sorry jazzman ,

I remember now. you drive a van with windows and seats !!!

Laughing out Loud

Val & frank

 

[Jazman]

Yes Frank, hee hee hee.

And have you not noticed that most 4 x 4's are no more than a van with windows on a tractor chassis. Ho ho ho.

I looked around and found you have a Toyota, great car!I had one about ten years ago. But it is to cramped for our present needs and I like something with a little performance towing and solo. It was a fine beast and tow car with small kids. Try an Amazon with 7 adult sized people and luggage for three weeks caravannning, no doubt your wifes car could follow behind you with it when we can fit it all in our van/car.

You semm to get the wrong idea Frank. 4 x 4 is great, but is not the always the only or best choice for large families with large caravans.

 

[Val & Frank]

Hi Jazman,

Yes we have a LC4 Toyota. It drives well and it's only the two of us, tows a bigish van 1854 MTPLM, but again only two of us.

Performance from the d4d is pretty good. I know I could tow at an easy 80MPH + if it was legal !!!. Never checked MPG if it needs fuel it needs fuel.

Val & Frank

 

[Val & Frank]

jazman

" but is not the always the only or best choice for large families with large caravans ".

100% agreement you have no choice really but an MPV or a Big Merc Estate !!!!

Val & frank

 

[S-MaxJon]

So basically what is being said is that people with large 4x4's are better and richer because they work harder !!!!!!

And that all people should aspire to get one

.I am really envious of those low MPG figures,wallowing body roll,leaf springs and negliable braking power.

Anyone remember the Suzuki SJ *** that would tip over.

P.S It is called Vehicle Excise Duty and has nothing to do with Road Tax and the funding of the road network.