an audi 1.9 uses more fuel fuel and higher emmisions than a navara ? absolute rubbish,the a4 has the same engine as my alhambra albit with 24 bhp more but it still sits in the
Givanni " Actually frank it does not help you cause, because as you have
already stated the 4x4 seems to be the most popular choice for
towing,
All wheel drive off roaders do seem to be the most popular choice for towing big vans in the UK. It is a cost issue, you can buy a large off road vehicle kitted out to a very high spec a lot cheaper than a Big Merc or BMW, and they are cheaper to run on servicing tyres etc.
Val & Frank
already stated the 4x4 seems to be the most popular choice for
towing,
All wheel drive off roaders do seem to be the most popular choice for towing big vans in the UK. It is a cost issue, you can buy a large off road vehicle kitted out to a very high spec a lot cheaper than a Big Merc or BMW, and they are cheaper to run on servicing tyres etc.
Val & Frank
Frank, not urgueing the cost bit, although range rovers and
the likes toyota land crusiers ain't exactly cheap.
And i do like vehicles with 4x4 audi and volvo to name a few,
car derived 4x4. but i do not need one and i am a tight git
so begrudge the fact that they use more fuel than their 2wd
stablemates.
But thats me, i don't judge what people drive on the road,i am
just as likely to think a corsa driver is a prat as a range rover
one, and i hope other decide i am a pratt or not by my driving,
not by what i drive.....
driver
the likes toyota land crusiers ain't exactly cheap.
And i do like vehicles with 4x4 audi and volvo to name a few,
car derived 4x4. but i do not need one and i am a tight git
so begrudge the fact that they use more fuel than their 2wd
stablemates.
But thats me, i don't judge what people drive on the road,i am
just as likely to think a corsa driver is a prat as a range rover
one, and i hope other decide i am a pratt or not by my driving,
not by what i drive.....
driver
Lutz,
Can't quite make out the model but looking at T/A Dethleffs it may be the model that comes in at 1730 MTPLM would that be ok to tow with a 1668kg Mondeo ???
Val & Frank
Can't quite make out the model but looking at T/A Dethleffs it may be the model that comes in at 1730 MTPLM would that be ok to tow with a 1668kg Mondeo ???
Val & Frank
Icemaker. Which Nissan Navara are you talking about? The figures you have given are for the D40, not the D22. The difference is simple D40 is 175bhp and the D22 is 138bhp. Fact not fiction we pay less than
You may be right about the caravan in the picture having a 1730kg MTPLM. Let's take it as correct.
The following Mondeo estates would legally be able to tow that weight:
2.5V6 220hp petrol
2.0 TDCi 130hp 6-speed automatic
2.0 TDCi 140hp 6-speed manual
The following Mondeo estates would legally be able to tow that weight:
2.5V6 220hp petrol
2.0 TDCi 130hp 6-speed automatic
2.0 TDCi 140hp 6-speed manual
Firstly Diane you made it sound like you where quoting like for like in your comparison of the navara versus the 198 bhp audi and so i took it you meant the higher powered version which is what most people specify as 138 bhp is a bit lame for such a heavy car as the navara.
Secondly as Martin states the emisions are still higher than that of the audi even on the lower powered versions of the navara.
Its quite simple really the heavier the car the harder the engine needs to work, the harder the engine works the more emmisions it will have, hence the navara will never be as clean as the audi, its a heavier car with a larger engine.
Secondly as Martin states the emisions are still higher than that of the audi even on the lower powered versions of the navara.
Its quite simple really the heavier the car the harder the engine needs to work, the harder the engine works the more emmisions it will have, hence the navara will never be as clean as the audi, its a heavier car with a larger engine.
Hi Lutz,
The caravan will weigh more than the Mondeo !!! I agree it will pull it 1800kg I think is the max tow. But whatever happened to the 85 % guideline.
Frank
The caravan will weigh more than the Mondeo !!! I agree it will pull it 1800kg I think is the max tow. But whatever happened to the 85 % guideline.
Frank
The photo was out of the German brochure. The 85% guideline only applies in the UK. No-one has ever heard of it on the Continent so everybody goes by the legal maximum, which is the manufacturer's specification.
The first time I ever read about 85% was when I joined this forum. Talk to anyone here about it and they look at you in blank amazement.
The first time I ever read about 85% was when I joined this forum. Talk to anyone here about it and they look at you in blank amazement.
Well Lutz, that explains a lot, I suppose it's the same here you can tow up to the cars max without fear of being pulled over. I know you have given me advice in the past on the need to be aware in certain circumstances that a tacho may be required.
Cheers Lutz enjoyed the debate
Frank
Cheers Lutz enjoyed the debate
Frank
Icemaker i can,t be bothered at the moment to argue with you, but i will take it you don,t own a 4x4. As i said before we own two, one is a fulltime 4 wheel drive vehicle and the other is a selective choice. The Evo still has higher emmissions and fact 3.0 ltr Audi A4 has higher emmissions than the 2.5ltr Nissan Navara D22.
This thread tempted me to my first attempt on a forum.
Our towcar choice came about due to health, as we'd had 4 x 4's our Disco 3 was first choice.
4 x 4 choice based on price compared to an Audi or Merc seems a strange one to me. Our Disco weighed in at over
Our towcar choice came about due to health, as we'd had 4 x 4's our Disco 3 was first choice.
4 x 4 choice based on price compared to an Audi or Merc seems a strange one to me. Our Disco weighed in at over
if 4x4 are so bad why havent the goverment stoped the sale of them plus there are loads of new models on the market now and the govement isnt doing a thing about it to me this says everything
I don't think anyone in this thread suggested that 4x4's were bad. So for what reason should the government put a stop to their sale? All that various replies wanted to make clear is that there are alternatives to 4x4's which are also up to the job of towing and, in some cases, may do it even better. But that still doesn't justify banning 4x4's.
You can tow a caravan that's heavier than the tow car.
You can also tow with two-wheel drive.
Again you can tow a caravan with a low powered engine.
But lets not try and kid our selves, or others new to towing.
A heavy powerful four-wheeled drive vehicle will always be the better choice.
Four wheel drive is an extra safety feature that can be utilised during ever days driving not just when towing.
My x trail never comes out of auto.
A 4x4 gives extra ground clearance during times of floods.
A 4x4 is an estate but with more luggage capacity than many prestige estates.
A 4x4 has at lest 100kg nose weight in most cases. Sometimes 150kg. What does an mpv have?
An mpv will never be the best option, but perhaps the cheapest.
Come on admit it, if money was no problem wouldn't you have the most powerful range rover money could buy?
Not saying they're reliable but don't they look great
You can also tow with two-wheel drive.
Again you can tow a caravan with a low powered engine.
But lets not try and kid our selves, or others new to towing.
A heavy powerful four-wheeled drive vehicle will always be the better choice.
Four wheel drive is an extra safety feature that can be utilised during ever days driving not just when towing.
My x trail never comes out of auto.
A 4x4 gives extra ground clearance during times of floods.
A 4x4 is an estate but with more luggage capacity than many prestige estates.
A 4x4 has at lest 100kg nose weight in most cases. Sometimes 150kg. What does an mpv have?
An mpv will never be the best option, but perhaps the cheapest.
Come on admit it, if money was no problem wouldn't you have the most powerful range rover money could buy?
Not saying they're reliable but don't they look great
Ray 4 X 4 is only an advantage if you are off roading or towing through deep mud.
We 4 x four'd for near on 20 years and the extra two wheels driving was OK on the odd wet field but plenty of two wheel drive cars got on to the same fields as us and got off again.
Our Merc is far more comfortable than our Disco 3 and has bags more room even with seven people in it plus all our luggage.
Having to cary 4 adults and three teenagers we needed something large and the Disco was a dismal failure quite frankly.
The Mercs normal road performance will P@@ all over nearly all of the Nissan 4 x 4 range and Land Rovers and most others. It will not traverse a ploughed field but lets be honest, who does that with a family on board. The Merc coped fine with a wet trip through the Alps and thats about the highest and steepest most caravanners are ever likely to go with a caravan.
A year or so ago I would probably have agreed that you need 4 x 4 with a big van and family.
Reality is, that this is not the case. We have 100 kg nose and weight 1800kg plus being tyowed with bags more power compared to many SUV's, big caravans equate to big families quite often and the MPV does that better than SUV's.
We 4 x four'd for near on 20 years and the extra two wheels driving was OK on the odd wet field but plenty of two wheel drive cars got on to the same fields as us and got off again.
Our Merc is far more comfortable than our Disco 3 and has bags more room even with seven people in it plus all our luggage.
Having to cary 4 adults and three teenagers we needed something large and the Disco was a dismal failure quite frankly.
The Mercs normal road performance will P@@ all over nearly all of the Nissan 4 x 4 range and Land Rovers and most others. It will not traverse a ploughed field but lets be honest, who does that with a family on board. The Merc coped fine with a wet trip through the Alps and thats about the highest and steepest most caravanners are ever likely to go with a caravan.
A year or so ago I would probably have agreed that you need 4 x 4 with a big van and family.
Reality is, that this is not the case. We have 100 kg nose and weight 1800kg plus being tyowed with bags more power compared to many SUV's, big caravans equate to big families quite often and the MPV does that better than SUV's.
Along the same vein an John L, my towcar has to meet the following criteria (roughly in that order):
1. My wife has to be able to see the back of the car when she's parking (she's 5' 1")
2. Purchase price, insurance and tax must be within the respective budgets.
3. Be covered by a full and comprehensive warranty, regardless of whether it is a new or used car (Service costs have to be just that. I don't want to have to budget for unexpected repairs).
4. Legally capable of towing the caravan
5. Fuel consumption solo not worse than 40mpg solo (towing doesn't concern me as only about 20% of the total mileage is done towing)
6. Will take something at least the size of a washing machine in the load compartment, if necessary with the back seats folded down. (I'm always having to carry something big from A to B)
7. Be comfortable
8. Be reasonably quiet and smooth when cruising at 100mph (we don't have speed limits)
9. Must have ESP and side airbags
10. Be easy to get in and out of
11. If it's a diesel it must have a particulate filter
Whether a 4x4 comes out in the end or not doesn't concern me but at present there aren't any that meet all criteria, especially No. 2.
1. My wife has to be able to see the back of the car when she's parking (she's 5' 1")
2. Purchase price, insurance and tax must be within the respective budgets.
3. Be covered by a full and comprehensive warranty, regardless of whether it is a new or used car (Service costs have to be just that. I don't want to have to budget for unexpected repairs).
4. Legally capable of towing the caravan
5. Fuel consumption solo not worse than 40mpg solo (towing doesn't concern me as only about 20% of the total mileage is done towing)
6. Will take something at least the size of a washing machine in the load compartment, if necessary with the back seats folded down. (I'm always having to carry something big from A to B)
7. Be comfortable
8. Be reasonably quiet and smooth when cruising at 100mph (we don't have speed limits)
9. Must have ESP and side airbags
10. Be easy to get in and out of
11. If it's a diesel it must have a particulate filter
Whether a 4x4 comes out in the end or not doesn't concern me but at present there aren't any that meet all criteria, especially No. 2.
I Response to Ray I have added comments below -
You can tow a caravan that's heavier than the tow car.
Isn't that Illegal
You can also tow with two-wheel drive.
Point being
Again you can tow a caravan with a low powered engine.
Causing tailbacks and unnecesary bad feeling
But lets not try and kid our selves, or others new to towing.
A heavy powerful four-wheeled drive vehicle will always be the better choice.
Didn't you say you could tow with a low powered car ??
Four wheel drive is an extra safety feature that can be utilised during ever days driving not just when towing.
Not proven and hazardous to other road users.
My x trail never comes out of auto.
So - less economical
A 4x4 gives extra ground clearance during times of floods.
Tell that to the people in Glos under 6 ft of water
A 4x4 is an estate but with more luggage capacity than many prestige estates.
Could fit more in my mondeo estate and also my hatchback
A 4x4 has at lest 100kg nose weight in most cases. Sometimes 150kg. What does an mpv have?
An mpv will never be the best option, but perhaps the cheapest.
What about the lumbering old 15 year old Shoguns etc ?? Cheap as chips but less paletable
Come on admit it, if money was no problem wouldn't you have the most powerful range rover money could buy?
No -
Not saying they're reliable but don't they look great
My brother has a Freelander - not reliable or powerful.
You can't say that a Kia or Hyundai look good ?
I'll stick with my Mondeo ST and wave when I'm overtaking you on a motorway incline
You can tow a caravan that's heavier than the tow car.
Isn't that Illegal
You can also tow with two-wheel drive.
Point being
Again you can tow a caravan with a low powered engine.
Causing tailbacks and unnecesary bad feeling
But lets not try and kid our selves, or others new to towing.
A heavy powerful four-wheeled drive vehicle will always be the better choice.
Didn't you say you could tow with a low powered car ??
Four wheel drive is an extra safety feature that can be utilised during ever days driving not just when towing.
Not proven and hazardous to other road users.
My x trail never comes out of auto.
So - less economical
A 4x4 gives extra ground clearance during times of floods.
Tell that to the people in Glos under 6 ft of water
A 4x4 is an estate but with more luggage capacity than many prestige estates.
Could fit more in my mondeo estate and also my hatchback
A 4x4 has at lest 100kg nose weight in most cases. Sometimes 150kg. What does an mpv have?
An mpv will never be the best option, but perhaps the cheapest.
What about the lumbering old 15 year old Shoguns etc ?? Cheap as chips but less paletable
Come on admit it, if money was no problem wouldn't you have the most powerful range rover money could buy?
No -
Not saying they're reliable but don't they look great
My brother has a Freelander - not reliable or powerful.
You can't say that a Kia or Hyundai look good ?
I'll stick with my Mondeo ST and wave when I'm overtaking you on a motorway incline
Hi,
beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Our new Hyundai Santa fe in metallic black looks terrific and everyone comments as such.
Chris
Friend had two brand new top of the range Mondeo's
Both broke down whilst towing to spain.
Clutch and gearbox problems!
Stick with a 4x4 son!!!!!!!!
Both broke down whilst towing to spain.
Clutch and gearbox problems!
Stick with a 4x4 son!!!!!!!!
Jonathan Quote " I'll stick with my Mondeo ST and wave when I'm overtaking you on a motorway incline.
I didn't know RAC recovery trucks with a car and caravan on the back could go that fast !!!!!!
Frank
I didn't know RAC recovery trucks with a car and caravan on the back could go that fast !!!!!!
Frank
Knowing the reaction of some 4 x 4 owners who can not see past the glossy paimtwork of their baby, I will try and tread with care.
Are you saying that brutish 4 x 4's are more reliable than other cars Essexeddie? Having had a few myself I can assure you that theya are probably more likely to suffer transmission failures.
Having had top of the range 4 x 4's that have added to the statistics of them being some of the least reliable cars on the market you have to be blowing in the wind friend.
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