Air pollution?

[ProfJohnL]

If you melt glacial ice, or ice cap ice where do you think the water goes; into the sea.. The level in a gin and tonic will rise if you put ice in the drink and the ice then melts and the level stays higher than before ice was added. The reason it’s not visible is the G&T is being drunk before you notice the effect.
...

Brilliant idea. lets all drink more water to control the sea level. You should get a Darwin Award for that OC

 

[Devonisheaven]

If you melt glacial ice, or ice cap ice where do you think the water goes; into the sea.. The level in a gin and tonic will rise if you put ice in the drink and the ice then melts and the level stays higher than before ice was added. The reason it’s not visible is the G&T is being drunk before you notice the effect.

I thought that you had bought a Lexus petrol hybrid?

I thought most of the ice was under the surface of the sea!…..Tip of the iceberg! Water expands when it freezes, so if it melts, sea levels will drop. 🤔

 

[otherclive]

I thought most of the ice was under the surface of the sea!…..Tip of the iceberg! Water expands when it freezes, so if it melts, sea levels will drop. 🤔

What about the ice sheets and glaciers in the Arctic, high mountain ranges and Antarctic. None of that is floating as it’s on land. So when it melts where will the meltwaters finish up?

 

[otherclive]

Brilliant idea. lets all drink more water to control the sea level. You should get a Darwin Award for that OC

I find your comment wrt to Darwin Award totally incorrect. Nowhere was I advocating that by drinking a gin and tonic with ice would keep sea levels under control. It was just an example that if you put ice in the G&T it will melt and increase the level. Just like ice sheets and glaciers do when they melt. But of course those that like G&T don’t notice it because they are too involved in enjoying it. 😂



Plus I don’t qualify in Darwin Award status as can be seen below.

They recognize individuals who have supposedly contributed to human evolution by selecting themselves out of the gene pool by dying or becoming sterilized by their own actions.

 

[Devonisheaven]

What about the ice sheets and glaciers in the Arctic, high mountain ranges and Antarctic. None of that is floating as it’s on land. So when it melts where will the meltwaters finish up?

Depends if the tide is in or out! 🤔

 

[Mr Plodd]

Solar panels and battery storage should be a condition of building regs (where practicable to fit them) on all houses, as a percentage of the total cost they are cheap.
I have both, and over a 12 month period I am pretty much energy neutral cost wise. That is for 'lecky and gas, my summer 'leccy export pretty much pays for my winter gas, hence me saying all new properties should have them. I simply cannot understand why it isn't happening.
My Panels (3.7Kw max) are currently producing 2.51kw, they face SE so not the ideal S facing, and battery is 8.2Kwh capacity, that's for a 2000 build 3 bed semi, 2 retirees living in it,

 

[Devonisheaven]

………….I simply cannot understand why it isn't happening.

It would put the greedy energy providers out of business!

 

[Sam Vimes]

While this thread is about Air Pollution there was an interesting article in the Beeb news about Noise Pollution and the affects on health. Something that often gets overlooked these days.

I recently went down to the south and it amazed my how many new homes are built next to busy motorways. Both air and noise pollution are probably higher in those areas.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I find your comment wrt to Darwin Award totally incorrect. Nowhere was I advocating that by drinking a gin and tonic with ice would keep sea levels under control. It was just an example that if you put ice in the G&T it will melt and increase the level. Just like ice sheets and glaciers do when they melt. But of course those that like G&T don’t notice it because they are too involved in enjoying it. 😂



Plus I don’t qualify in Darwin Award status as can be seen below.

They recognize individuals who have supposedly contributed to human evolution by selecting themselves out of the gene pool by dying or becoming sterilized by their own actions.

OOPs it was typo... When I tried to spell check Nobel the AI auto corrected to Darwin

 

[otherclive]

OOPs it was typo... When I tried to spell check Nobel the AI auto corrected to Darwin

Quick thinking Prof. I like it. 👍

 

[Tobes]

Depends if the tide is in or out! 🤔

Glacial ice does not depend on the tide being in or out. Glacial melt ends up in the sea. Antarctic melt ends up in the sea. The Antarctic ice sheet contains about 70% of the fresh water on the planet, and about 90% of the ice on the planet. It's supported by (i.e. is resting on) the antarctic land mass. That means its own volume does not currently contribute to the level of the ocean.

If it were to all melt, it would cause a global rise in sea level of almost 70 meters. Just to give that some perspective, the base of the Shard is at 15M above sea level. If we saw a 70M rise in sea level, the new level would be at about the 18th floor of the Shard. If you follow the thames up stream, the new coast would be between Abingdon and Oxford.

Glacial retreat and subsequent sea level rise is already happening. We have been monitoring from space for decades.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I thought most of the ice was under the surface of the sea!…..Tip of the iceberg! Water expands when it freezes, so if it melts, sea levels will drop. 🤔

An ice berg floats because as the water freezes it expands which reduces its density and thus increases its buoyancy. The tip of the iceberg represents the excess buoyancy of the iceberg.

However when a fully floating iceberg melts, the H20 increases its density and thus the melted iceberg would assume exactly the same volume as the submerged part of the frozen iceberg, so there would be no change in the depth of the water.

You can prove this with a glass water add an ice cube and mark the depth of water. Recheck when the ice cube has melted - no change.

The difference with ice from the Antarctica and other land based glaciers is these masses are on land presently above mean sea level, and any melt water finds its way into the sea which adds to the volume of the sea, so the sea level must rise to accommodate it just as OC stated in #125

Whilst the above summarises the general effect well enough, The reality is a little more complex, becasue most glacial ice pure water H2O, but sea water has natural salt and a splattering of other minerals in it which gives it a slightly different density. Coupled with different temperatures between the sea water and ice melt, the ice melt water will often sink to the bottom and not mix immediately with the salt water above. Not only is ice melt raising average sea levels, but it is cooling the sea bed eco system an creating different underwater currents which is changing the water heat energy conveyer distribution across our oceans.

 

[Devonisheaven]

Glacial ice does not depend on the tide being in or out. Glacial melt ends up in the sea. Antarctic melt ends up in the sea. The Antarctic ice sheet contains about 70% of the fresh water on the planet, and about 90% of the ice on the planet. It's supported by (i.e. is resting on) the antarctic land mass. That means its own volume does not currently contribute to the level of the ocean.

If it were to all melt, it would cause a global rise in sea level of almost 70 meters. Just to give that some perspective, the base of the Shard is at 15M above sea level. If we saw a 70M rise in sea level, the new level would be at about the 18th floor of the Shard. If you follow the thames up stream, the new coast would be between Abingdon and Oxford.

Glacial retreat and subsequent sea level rise is already happening. We have been monitoring from space for decades.

Sorry Tobes, I was being mischievous! I know full well the tide has nothing to do with it. 👍

 

[Devonisheaven]

An ice berg floats because as the water freezes it expands which reduces its density and thus increases its buoyancy. The tip of the iceberg represents the excess buoyancy of the iceberg.

However when a fully floating iceberg melts, the H20 increases its density and thus the melted iceberg would assume exactly the same volume as the submerged part of the frozen iceberg, so there would be no change in the depth of the water.

You can prove this with a glass water add an ice cube and mark the depth of water. Recheck when the ice cube has melted - no change.

The difference with ice from the Antarctica and other land based glaciers is these masses are on land presently above mean sea level, and any melt water finds its way into the sea which adds to the volume of the sea, so the sea level must rise to accommodate it just as OC stated in #125

Whilst the above summarises the general effect well enough, The reality is a little more complex, becasue most glacial ice pure water H2O, but sea water has natural salt and a splattering of other minerals in it which gives it a slightly different density. Coupled with different temperatures between the sea water and ice melt, the ice melt water will often sink to the bottom and not mix immediately with the salt water above. Not only is ice melt raising average sea levels, but it is cooling the sea bed eco system a creating different underwater currents which is changing the water heat energy conveyer distribution across our oceans.

Google is a wonderful thing! 👍😁

 

[otherclive]

Three neighbours on our small development have PHEV. They are all retired and only use an external 240v supply and lead, not an installed dedicated charging point. Talking to them their normal daily drives are well catered for by overnight “slow “ charging and were quite happy to use more expensive commercial charging points if on longer journeys. Our grandson let his lease Tesla go last summer and they have relied on their 68 reg 5 series PHEV saloon with occasional use of our runabout when required, which actually isn’t that often. He told me this weekend that the BMW is going and his company have agreed a EV lease car via Octopus. But he’s keeping us guessing on what make he’s going for.

There was a reply to this post that commented that it’s hoped my grandson doesn’t lease a Tesla. It’s disappeared, guess it might have verged too close to the owners of the web site.

Anyway he’s leasing a left field option which is a VW ID7 Tourer AWD variant. The EV version of the Passat. A very good deal arranged by his company with Octopus, but the lease can move with him after three months should he move company. There’s a 12 week waiting list so Octopus will supply a pre owned car during that period.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Google is a wonderful thing! 👍😁

Not sourced from google at all, just scientific and engineering knowledge gained over many years

 

[Buckman]

Thanks all once again for a good belly laugh this morning. This thread has certainly cheered me up. Keep it up as need a lot more laughs.