Very sad to hear Vauxhall Luton will shut permanently in April. Another great Christmas for the 1100 employees. They made my sons previous Electric Vivaro which was pretty good considering its hefty size 🥲🥲
Another sad day
- Thread starter Dustydog
- Start date
The production of electric vans will move to Ellesmere Port, Cheshire with a handful of Luton workers being transferred - but production on IC vans will move to mainland Europe - ironic as it was always Ellesmere Port that was under threat of closure by GM with Luton always staying safe.
This is what happens when you have a mad unjustified rush to zero carbon by a certain person and then fine the manufacturer up to £5000 for each unit when consumers do not want to buy EVs!
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Actually it is. £15k charge per ICE car , introduced in to law in early 2024 by whom?
Surprising how some of today’s papers journalists have similar such short memories.
ZEV mandate: 22% of new cars must be electric this year
New legislation has just come into force requiring all UK car manufacturers to meet targets for new electric car sales, which could result in big discounts for car buyers
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A sad sacrifice on the altar of net zero!
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States the article was published in published 04 January 2024, but certain people are still forcing it to happen!Actually it is. £15k charge per ICE car , introduced in to law in early 2024 by whom?
Surprising how some of today’s papers journalists have similar such short memories.
ZEV mandate: 22% of new cars must be electric this year
New legislation has just come into force requiring all UK car manufacturers to meet targets for new electric car sales, which could result in big discounts for car buyerswww.whatcar.com
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I know when the law was enacted,. Currently it’s up for consultation.
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And we all know about "consultations" don't we? The decision gets made, and then, in order to tick the right box, a "consultation" is held. But even if the consultation shows the public are against it the authorities will just claim "We have taken note of the result of the consultation, but we are under no obligation to abide by it" So they dont!
When I worked for the County Council I saw that happen many times.
I for one simply cannot understand why, as such a miniscule contribitor to climate change we are being lumbered with just about the highest electricity costs in the G20 group and being forced into ASHP's (using my tax money to pay others subsidies to install them) and giving generous tax breaks to company car drivers to "go electric" Whilst the poorest among us are hit with high VED because the only cars they can afford are old so attract higher rates rather than the very low ones on uber-expensive EV's. EV owners pay no duty on their fuel, so what is going to replace that tax income? Yet higher fuel duty on petrol and diesel??
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I’m happy to let the discussions take place between the motor industry and government to see what comes out of them. I suspect there may be a dilution of the levy or some relief.
Wrt your other views I too think that over the last few years policy wrt vehicle taxation has been a pig’s ear. I could never see why small ICE were allowed zero or low VED for so long, even before EVs started to appear in growing numbers.
Mel
Moderator
I have now deleted the whole argument about using obnoxious terms and edited posts that quoted them. Name calling of any sort is not acceptable on this forum and justifying it by quoting articles containing other obnoxious terms is equally reprehensible. It does not happen again.
Mel
Mel
Strange how those decision makers couldn’t see beyond the next green lunch. Let’s hope there’s still a motor industry left to have discussions with HMG.
Here is the thing; new EV sales are up, used EV sales are up - at least in the UK (and most of Europe, outside of Germany). The market is growing. Costs of both (new and used) are coming down. Those sales are coming from _ somewhere_.
Being competitive and having a compelling offer for your customer are not government directives. There are EV manufactures who are managing all of the above. Kia, Hyundai, Geely, Tesla, GWM, BYD and BMW all seem ok. Others (Stelantis, Renault, and so a certain extent VW) are managing. Others are failing. That is not about tariffs or penalties, it's about offer and value. Having a motor industry left is as much to do with the motor industry failing to adapt to the new world as it the government for pushing the agenda.
I wonder if the U.K. should be putting Tariffs on foreign makes like the US? Once you lose your home market manufacturing you really are financially and economically at risk. As I said at the starter Vauxhall,Luton was fully dedicated plant making the E Vivaro. My sons was pretty good although unlike cars the range was not brilliant.
I heard a whisper today Nissan are in trouble and Sunderland may be no more. I hope not.
EV sales ? Well I read so much that each can tell you differing stories. A bit like Dowding during the Battle of Britain . The big rental,boys are pulling out and allegedly there are three year old EVs on the market for barely 35% of their original price. But as Dowding said when the battle is over we will,know the truth😉
More importantly none of us want to see our manufacturing industry disappear. What next?
Wrt your comment on used EV sales I may have mentioned before that Chippenham Motor Company have quite a number of high end ones some at prices not much more than a new Rio. A couple of weeks ago there was a Leaf at £8k and a little odd shaped BMW around the same price. Both with relatively low mileages for the year 2017 and 2015 respectively. Mentioned them to my wife as replacement for her Rio. No chance. Those drivers looking for pre owned cars seem reluctant to dive into EV country.
I suspect for most people in the U.K. a change of car is not top of their priority list at the moment. If you have the funds and bearing in mind the Rio’s usage I’d be tempted with one of those EVs. If we could find
one that genuinely does 200 m per charge .. As it happens I’m going to CMC soon about the Cee’d . See other thread.
At present the Rio is shared with grandson has he let his Tesla go and they are down to one car. So as well as local journeys he sometimes has longer ones in business or to see his father and grandparents in Manchester. So the Leaf or BMW might have been a bit restricted 🚫
I don't see tariffs working for the UK - we have precious little motor industry left to make it work, although I hope we target the Chinese manufacturers in concert with EU tariffs on them - otherwise the Chinese will simply flood our market with cheap, subsidised cars.
According to reports in various papers, EV sales are on the wane and not on the up? I can understand maybe the odd newspapers reporting falling sales and take it with a pinch of salt, but when it is mentioned in 3- 5 newspapers then I think that there may be some truth in it.
Mel
Moderator
As I mentioned before we have just bought an”entry level” EV in the form of a 2020 Corsa electric with low mileage. This came in at 11k. The plan being to use this a run around second car and spare the diesel tow car for towing and long journeys. The vast majority of our mileage is local- no more than 25 miles in any one direction.
We are able to charge overnight on our drive.
So far it has been brilliant. Haven’t pushed the range to its max. Its published range is 209 miles but I would say real world range in the winter is somewhere around 160-165 miles. In the summer I think we will get more like 170-180.
This is more than enough for our day to day purposes. An overnight full charge costs us about £1.70
So far so good. Should we ever pack in touring; I can see how an EV with a 350+ range would work for us as our main car
The key factor is being able to charge at home
Mel
We are able to charge overnight on our drive.
So far it has been brilliant. Haven’t pushed the range to its max. Its published range is 209 miles but I would say real world range in the winter is somewhere around 160-165 miles. In the summer I think we will get more like 170-180.
This is more than enough for our day to day purposes. An overnight full charge costs us about £1.70
So far so good. Should we ever pack in touring; I can see how an EV with a 350+ range would work for us as our main car
The key factor is being able to charge at home
Mel
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You comments and choice of EV car pretty well mirror those by Tobes wrt his daughters EV car. Such an arrangement would suit us perfectly.
In the UK, the data from the SMMT would say otherwise for new sales.
Car Registrations
SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT car registrations data published monthly
www.smmt.co.uk
There is definitely a variance in the Press perspective of sales and trends. As with all stats you can paint different pictures.
The Car Hire Companies have been ditching their EV fleet and not replacing at the same level.
The used EV market is well worth a look.
Allegedly the used EV prices have seriously bottomed. I admit we are tempted to take a very close look but at the moment need more convincing a medium sized EV can do 160 mile round winter trip , allowing for hold ups with heater on etc.
Son’s Volvo XC40 Recharge can’t do Cirencester to Harrogate in one go without being in the danger zone. A stop,at Nottingham for 30 mins is required.
The Volvo should suit us for the 160 but it is too pricey for a second car in the family.There’s a new Dacia coming out soon circa £15 k. Looks promising👍
Are more charging fast chargers being installed? Can’t say I’ve seen much being done near me?
On the basis the batteries generally have all lasted this list is most definitely got temptation😉
The Car Hire Companies have been ditching their EV fleet and not replacing at the same level.
The used EV market is well worth a look.
Allegedly the used EV prices have seriously bottomed. I admit we are tempted to take a very close look but at the moment need more convincing a medium sized EV can do 160 mile round winter trip , allowing for hold ups with heater on etc.
Son’s Volvo XC40 Recharge can’t do Cirencester to Harrogate in one go without being in the danger zone. A stop,at Nottingham for 30 mins is required.
The Volvo should suit us for the 160 but it is too pricey for a second car in the family.There’s a new Dacia coming out soon circa £15 k. Looks promising👍
Are more charging fast chargers being installed? Can’t say I’ve seen much being done near me?
On the basis the batteries generally have all lasted this list is most definitely got temptation😉
If you are considering the Dacia Spring have a look at its NCAP rating as recent Dacias like Jogger haven’t been great. But you need to relate it to the test standard which changes every two years viz 2019, 2021, 2023. What seem t let them down is the relatively low Occupant Safety. Jogger at 70% . It didn’t have all the electronic bells and whistles that are avaible. But it was penalised as no seat belt warnings for third row of seats and poor whiplash protection for that row. But I dread to think how my Marina, Estelle, Chamois and BX would fare. Fortunately our only two full write offs were in Saab 9000 and Volvo 740 estate. Quite fortuitous 👍
We'd need to see the monthly or quarterly figures to see the trend - some commentators are suggesting that the growth of EV sales in 2023 and early 2024 has faltered.In the UK, the data from the SMMT would say otherwise for new sales.
View attachment 7987Car Registrations
SMMT is the country’s primary source of data on the motor industry. Click here for the SMMT car registrations data published monthly
There certainly is a huge difference in EV sales % between company-funded new cars and privately-funded used cars - the former has kick-started EV sales but without the latter it'll become a damp squib.
From a personal point of view, I can't justify a second car - at 1,500 miles/year for local trips , the additional insurance, MoT, Recovery and maintenance costs outweigh any running cost savings on our main car.
My son however, has a usage pattern which suits a plug-in hybrid so will be looking at that in the New Year - my daughter-in-law's usage would suit a full electric but her car won't get replaced for 2-3 years.
People do need to check the detail of the EuroNCAP scoring before buying, or rejecting, a specific model - my VW Touareg has no seat belt warnings for the 2nd row but I never driver off without verbally checking with passengers that they're all belted - so I have every confidence it just as safe as a car with 2nd and 3rd row seat belt warnings.
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