Electricity cost in UK

[Dustydog]

Pretty sure this thread was started with a question about EVs. Just checking, and - Yes - it was. It was started in the Chit-chat section, open to any topic. Don't want to engage - scroll on by. The mouse wheel is in your command!

In the mean time - those who do want to engage will continue to answer questions like Dusty's who have genuine interest, and I for one, am happy to help with my knowledge based on lived experience, rather that conjecture and guesswork.

I started the thread Tobes . I wondered if the electricity cost disparity with Europe would affect EV sales. I further made it very clear I had no wish to reopen a hostile EV debate. See also #57
But I am interested in certain aspects and appreciate the answers,
My son is making use of his new Volvo XC40 EV. Far better than the Vauxhall Vivaro van but range is still a restriction compared to my ICE especially winter.
Anyway if I or anyone else wants to start a new EV thread there’s plenty to discuss no matter what side you are on,

 

[Buckman]

I had read your post first time around but I’ve yet to see any substantial evidence that even early EVs had to have battery replacement in the 10 year timescale. It was primarily initial conjecture when journalists were unaware of what the life of a battery would be. I really don’t care what folks think about the Nissan Leaf but given by the numbers of 10 years plus on Autotrader Nissan got something right on one of the earliest main stream EVs.

Do you know how to use Google?

 

[otherclive]

Do you know how to use Google?

I'm immune to sarcasm


This article may explain why Nissans plans to repurpose used batteries into domestic battery stores hasn't made much progress. The batteries are mostly still in service. I would expect other makes of battery are similarly still inservice.

Surprise! Nissan LEAF Batteries Last Much Longer Than Expected - CleanTechnica

If you are worried about the battery in your Nissan LEAF, don't be. Those batteries are lasting much longer than expected.

cleantechnica.com

 

[GUMPY]

My Lithium Solar battery, of a similar type to an EV has a 6000 cycle warranty. At a cycle a day which is more than is normal that's over 16 years. That's just the warranty I fully don't expect them to stop before the 6001 cycle.

 

[Oscarmax]

I'm immune to sarcasm


This article may explain why Nissans plans to repurpose used batteries into domestic battery stores hasn't made much progress. The batteries are mostly still in service. I would expect other makes of battery are similarly still inservice.

Surprise! Nissan LEAF Batteries Last Much Longer Than Expected - CleanTechnica

If you are worried about the battery in your Nissan LEAF, don't be. Those batteries are lasting much longer than expected.

cleantechnica.com

Our previous 2020 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV after just over 3 years including towing no deterioration of battery performance and range, they are obviously getting better.

 

[Oscarmax]

My Lithium Solar battery, of a similar type to an EV has a 6000 cycle warranty. At a cycle a day which is more than is normal that's over 16 years. That's just the warranty I fully don't expect them to stop before the 6001 cycle.

I just hope I last as long as my battery

 

[GUMPY]

I just hope I last as long as my battery

Now you mention it I will be 87 when the warranty runs out 😱

 

[Oscarmax]

Now you mention it I will be 87 when the warranty runs out 😱

We installed the battery 2 years ago so I will be 76 when the warranty runs out, we have been really pleased with the SolaX Triple 5.8 kWh battery.

 

[GUMPY]

We installed the battery 2 years ago so I will be 76 when the warranty runs out, we have been really pleased with the SolaX Triple 5.8 kWh battery.

As you know I doubled mine it now easily covers 24hrs could possibly push 36 or more.
Dinner cooked etc and down to 80% I will be grabbing a top up from the grid at 22.30 for half hour and at 2.30 as tomorrow doesn't look so good for solar and Agile prices are not so good over the coming days.😟

 

[Oscarmax]

I did the same.

 

[GUMPY]

Over 50p a unit tomorrow evening😱
I will be avoiding grid electricity.

 

[Oscarmax]

between 17.00 (42.37) - 19-00 (48.98) then down to 28.02 and 18.30 pence in our area, we don't use the grid at peak 16.00 - 19.00.

 

[GUMPY]

The higher charges are a downside of living in the SW, no nuclear anywhere near until Hinckley C opens up.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Octopus flat rate any time of day 21.81p. per KWh. Standing charge 56.2p per day

 

[GUMPY]

Octopus flat rate any time of day 21.81p. per KWh. Standing charge 56.2p per day

My average unit price for the last six months has been 6.6p why would I want to pay 21.81p?
Even the last 12 months including a spell on Flux it was only 11.72p

That's less than I was paying before the price rises started.
The standing charge is £206 a year I wish it was lower as it makes up most of my bill.

 

[Tobes]

Please read my post again and this time try and understand what I was saying. Many of the older EVs have required a battery replacement at a very high cost. I have zero interest in any Leaf.

May I suggest that you re-read the first post which was about the COST of electric and not about EVs.

I wonder if this is having an adverse effect on EV sales?

I will repost in case you missed it.

 

[Tobes]

I started the thread Tobes . I wondered if the electricity cost disparity with Europe would affect EV sales. I further made it very clear I had no wish to reopen a hostile EV debate. See also #57
But I am interested in certain aspects and appreciate the answers,
My son is making use of his new Volvo XC40 EV. Far better than the Vauxhall Vivaro van but range is still a restriction compared to my ICE especially winter.
Anyway if I or anyone else wants to start a new EV thread there’s plenty to discuss no matter what side you are on,

Absolutely DD. And I gave an answer to your question about the impact of electricity costs on EV sales, and then gave examples of why the costs are not impacting sales.

I have simply responded to any question that has been raised with a factual answer, such as yours on one pedal driving . No pushing of opinion has take place.

But some forum members seem unable to ignore positive discourse on the topic and take offence whenever anything associated with EVs is mentioned. It’s like some kind of Pavlovian reaction that forces personal abuse and sarcasm without any form fact or reason.

It’s a shame, as I personally enjoy these discussions, but I am put off participating because I know at some point I will be ridiculed for my personal choices.

 

[Devonisheaven]

I just paid, according to today’s exchange rate, £2.46 a gallon to top up my hire car here in Arizona ………..For what it’s worth. 👍🇺🇸

 

[Dustydog]

Absolutely DD. And I gave an answer to your question about the impact of electricity costs on EV sales, and then gave examples of why the costs are not impacting sales.

I have simply responded to any question that has been raised with a factual answer, such as yours on one pedal driving . No pushing of opinion has take place.

But some forum members seem unable to ignore positive discourse on the topic and take offence whenever anything associated with EVs is mentioned. It’s like some kind of Pavlovian reaction that forces personal abuse and sarcasm without any form fact or reason.

It’s a shame, as I personally enjoy these discussions, but I am put off participating because I know at some point I will be ridiculed for my personal choices.

There’s an antipathy, almost dare I say an orchestrated hatred towards ICEs , Green is above all. You have honestly answered all my questions which helps give a broader understanding of EVs . Thank you and keep them coming.
I may well start a new EV thread unless someone else does and hopefully some technical structured discussion can take place.

The reality for me is an EV will not yet give me the towing performance and endurance the Touareg does.😇

But I am keeping an open mind watching how the Volvo XC40 Recharge performs this winter. My son’s job takes him from Harrogate to Leeds and North Manchester and North Yorkshire. So a good varied set of road conditions and low temperatures.

 

[Buckman]

There’s an antipathy, almost dare I say an orchestrated hatred towards ICEs , Green is above all. You have honestly answered all my questions which helps give a broader understanding of EVs . Thank you and keep them coming.
I may well start a new EV thread unless someone else does and hopefully some technical structured discussion can take place.

The reality for me is an EV will not yet give me the towing performance and endurance the Touareg does.😇

But I am keeping an open mind watching how the Volvo XC40 Recharge performs this winter. My son’s job takes him from Harrogate to Leeds and North Manchester and North Yorkshire. So a good varied set of road conditions and low temperatures.

Well said DD.

But some forum members seem unable to ignore positive discourse on the topic and take offence whenever anything associated with EVs is mentioned. It’s like some kind of Pavlovian reaction that forces personal abuse and sarcasm without any form fact or reason.

It’s a shame, as I personally enjoy these discussions, but I am put off participating because I know at some point I will be ridiculed for my personal choices.

Nothing wrong with your personal choice and happy for you, but getting tired of it being rammed down our throats by numerous sources on how wonderful an EV is when it is not much better than a vehicle using fossil fuel when it comes to environmental impact.

However the over zealous drive towards an early net zero target by a certain minister who seems to live in a dream world is causing many issues i.e. Port Talbot and the net zero drive also pushing up costs due to the high cost of electric in this country.

Not the fault of EV drivers obviously, but the govt who do not seem to realise that even if the UK were net zero, it will not stop pollution from other countries who are probably being a bit more sensible. We are a very tiny island and going net zero is hardly going to make any impact on world pollution.

 

[otherclive]

Well said DD.

Nothing wrong with your personal choice and happy for you, but getting tired of it being rammed down our throats by numerous sources on how wonderful an EV is when it is not much better than a vehicle using fossil fuel when it comes to environmental impact.

However the over zealous drive towards an early net zero target by a certain minister who seems to live in a dream world is causing many issues i.e. Port Talbot and the net zero drive also pushing up costs due to the high cost of electric in this country.

Not the fault of EV drivers obviously, but the govt who do not seem to realise that even if the UK were net zero, it will not stop pollution from other countries who are probably being a bit more sensible. We are a very tiny island and going net zero is hardly going to make any impact on world pollution.

I would only comment that Port Talbot has been going downhill for far longer than the minister has been in office. Scunthorpe is in a similar situation. Port Talbot has been loosing £1m per day. The issue affecting those two plants is cheaper or specialist imports of steel. A similar situation that eventually led to the demise of U.K. coal. It was to expensive.

We don’t complain when our goods are cheap and imported. So no gain without pain.

Some will say it’s a strategic issue. But the ore and coal are imported. Our submarines haven’t been constructed from British steel since well before ye present Trident boats, they go back to the mid 1980s.

We need to adapt to a changing world. Climate change is real and there are opportunities from going green as well as costs. One advantage is that with more renewable or zero carbon electricity U.K. can start to divorce itself from oil and gas price fluctuations and disruption to imported supplies

 

[Buckman]

I would only comment that Port Talbot has been going downhill for far longer than the minister has been in office. Scunthorpe is in a similar situation. Port Talbot has been loosing £1m per day. The issue affecting those two plants is cheaper imports of steel. A similar situation that eventually led to the demise of U.K. coal. It was to expensive.

We don’t complain when our goods are cheap and imported. So no gain without pain.

Some will say it’s a strategic issue. But the ore and coal are imported. Our submarines haven’t been constructed from British steel since well before ye present Trident boats, they go back to the mid 1980s.

We need to adapt to a changing world. Climate change is real and there are opportunities from going green as well as costs. One advantage is that with more renewable or zero carbon electricity U.K. can start to divorce itself from oil and gas price fluctuations and disruption to imported supplies

Apologies. Poor wording by myself as I never meant to imply that the minister was the one causing Port Talbot to close, but the minister still lives in an overly ambitious dream world.

No one is saying that climate change is not happening, but it has been happening for millions of years so nothing new there! However divorcing from the cheaper option of oil and gas will push up the price of every day goods substantially. After all probably most stuff on supermarket shelves is cooked and that includes staples like bread.

 

[otherclive]

Apologies. Poor wording by myself as I never meant to imply that the minister was the one causing Port Talbot to close, but the minister still lives in an overly ambitious dream world.

No one is saying that climate change is not happening, but it has been happening for millions of years so nothing new there! However divorcing from the cheaper option of oil and gas will push up the price of every day goods substantially. After all probably most stuff on supermarket shelves is cooked and that includes staples like bread.

The current phase of global warming has been accurately plotted back to the Industrial Revolution in the mid 1750s when man made carbon dioxide emissions started to increase.

Just Have A Think!

Just Have A Think! Whilst not directly related to caravanning, several threads have touched on the issue of climate change and there has at times been some heated discussions about what we should or shouldn't be doing to help (or hinder) humanities approach to managing or even reversing the...

forums.practicalcaravan.com

 

[denvillesman]

It was reported yesterday UK electricity is now about 50pc more expensive than in Germany and France, and four times as expensive as in the US.
I wonder if this is having an adverse effect on EV sales?

Saudi have recently reduced oil prices which we are now enjoying at the pumps.


I am surprised at the cost disparity . I have no wish to reopen the EV debate please but am interested why the U.K. is out of sink on power prices? I think I know the answer, too much tinkering with methods of generation over the last 30 years! .??

Partly bacause we do not do this anymore! Photo taken Dec 22, open cast coal, the size of, and just to the west of Cologne. It is an awsome sight though.

It was reported yesterday UK electricity is now about 50pc more expensive than in Germany and France, and four times as expensive as in the US.
I wonder if this is having an adverse effect on EV sales?

Saudi have recently reduced oil prices which we are now enjoying at the pumps.


I am surprised at the cost disparity . I have no wish to reopen the EV debate please but am interested why the U.K. is out of sink on power prices? I think I know the answer, too much tinkering with methods of generation over the last 30 years! .??

 

[otherclive]

Partly bacause we do not do this anymore! Photo taken Dec 22, open cast coal, the size of, and just to the west of Cologne. It is an awsome sight though.

As of last year Germany had 53 coal stations and since the nuclear plants started to go off line following Fukushima Germany was in a difficult position when Russia invaded Ukraine. But even before that event Germany was making big strides in renewables together with the EU actions for a more joined up Eurogrid.