Golf GTD and coachman pastiche

[IamFlash]

Hi guys,

I can’t figure out if I should keep my golf or buy a tow car. We’ve just bought a 2006 coachman pastiche.

Can my car manage it? I’ve never towed before.

If it can’t- what can I get that’s a good fun daily driver and can tow. I still need to keep some street cred so something nice looking I know that’s vain but I love cars.

Thanks in advance.

 

[CustardAvenger]

You need to know the weights of your outfit. There should be a plate on the vehicle which will detail its maximum braked and unbraked trailer weights. However as a novice tower your caravans maximum weight (MTPLM) should not exceed 85% of your car's unladen weight.

 

[Raywood]

I agree we need more info but I doubt they are a good match as Coachman caravans tend to be heavy. We need the kerb weight and the towing limit for the car and the MTPLM (maximum plated weight) for the caravan. The kerb weight must always exceed the MTPLM and an 85% ratio is recommended for beginners although this is not law and exceeding it by a modest amount should not be a problem but do not take liberties on this.
If you do not know the MTPLM you can google the exact model, and there are several sites that will give you this. Pastiche is the range and there should be a number after this to say which one you are looking at.

 

[Woodentop]

A quick Google shows your Pastiche as having a MTPLM of 1590Kg but your GTD is well less than 1500Kg so the answer is no, they are incompatible.
If you like VAG then consider a Passat 190bhp if you can find one used, else the 256 bi-turbo is a rocket! If you want something more sedate look at the Skoda Kodiaq which is amazing and uses the Passat chassis.

Else you are in the realms of something like a BMW 320d/325d/520d/525d or a Merc if you want a thril.

Whatever you buy when you have a towbar fitted make sure it is written on the order and agreed with the supplier that full charging and fridge wiring is fitted - by default most German cars do not have it.

 

[Scorpy]

Hi guys,

I can’t figure out if I should keep my golf or buy a tow car. We’ve just bought a 2006 coachman pastiche.

Can my car manage it? I’ve never towed before.

If it can’t- what can I get that’s a good fun daily driver and can tow. I still need to keep some street cred so something nice looking I know that’s vain but I love cars.

Thanks in advance.

If you're towing a Coachman Pastiche you need something with guts as they are heavy vans also as a novice tower you need something that can get you out of trouble if necessary.
With a novice tower and a heavy van a 4x4 would be your best bet as it has a better car/van ratio than a saloon. The 85% rule is a good yard stick but bear in mind the heavier the car the better the handling-No Tail Wagging Dog should a coach or HGV come hurtling past you and suck you over. Also something with some engine power to drive out of any potential snake would be a bonus.
I tow a Pastiche with a Kia Sorento and it handles very well so obviously would recommend something like this. However, don't think any 4x4 will do the job-I looked at changing the Sorento for the new Sportage earlier this year and thought it would do a good job with the power only to find out it was nowhere near the kerb weight needed for a Pastiche.
Mike

 

[IamFlash]

Hi everyone

Thanks for The replies. We picked up the van tonight - I say we my dad towed it back with his x5.

So there is two weights on the van is it the larger one I need to work on? If so the golf won’t do the job. The lower one I think is 1260 and the golf has a kerb weight of 1600kgs. Is that what I work on? But 85% of that?
I’d love a 4x4. Just the thoughts of 30mpg and 500 a year tax puts me right off. Golf is only 20 quid.

 

[Woodentop]

Hi everyone

Thanks for The replies. We picked up the van tonight - I say we my dad towed it back with his x5.

So there is two weights on the van is it the larger one I need to work on? If so the golf won’t do the job. The lower one I think is 1260 and the golf has a kerb weight of 1600kgs. Is that what I work on? But 85% of that?
I’d love a 4x4. Just the thoughts of 30mpg and 500 a year tax puts me right off. Golf is only 20 quid.

The two weights are MRO or Mass in Running Order, and MTPLM or Maximum Technically Permissable Load Mass. The MRO is the weight of the 'van empty-ish and the MTPLM is the maximum weight fully loaded. The 85% guidance is on the MTPLM.

I would check what you understand by tax on a 4x4. In most cases the first year tax is higher (i.e. ex showroom) but it drops significantly after that. I have a Passat Estate which is currently £30pa. If I get a new one now (150bhp) it will be £200 in the first year and £160pa after that - against a standard minimum tax on all non-exempt vehicles of £140. The Passat Estate (140 TDi) does 48-50mpg around town, high 50's on a long steady run, and about 30 towing. You will find many people are switching to petrol as they misunderstand the future of diesel and panic at the way the media (that doesn't understand either) project the emissions issue, but they do even less towing - 23 is not unusual - so don't reject a diesel out of hand. For the record the Passat is now one of the cleanest engines on the road.

IMO if you want an X5 get an X5. If you like VAG the Tiguan seems to be very popular but remember it is based on the Golf chassis so has a shorter wheelbase. Conversely the Skoda Kodiaq is based on the same stretched Passat chassis as the Superb and is a magnificent beast.

Overall the guidelines are a hitch loading of 5-7% of MTPLM subject to the caravan chassis limit or the limit of the towing vehicle or the towbar whichever of the three is the lowest, and the towing vehicle power should be at least 40bhp per tonne of the train weight (i.e. tow vehicle+MTPLM.) Also don't forget that if you took your driving test after 1st Jan 1997 you will only have B on your licence which limits you to driving a maximum train weight of 3500Kg - and those are plated weights not actual weight. If the train weight is over 3500Kg then you need to take an extra test to give you B+E which allows you to drive a heavier train weight subject to certain restrictions. The full details can be found on the www.gov.uk web site.

 

[IamFlash]

So is it 85% of the kerb weight at 1600kgs or the weight of the car?

By road tax I’ll be buying used - I’d love a Range Rover sport but 500 a year tax and 20’ish mpg isn’t happening.

I’d also have an x5. Just trying to find one with decent miles. I like the q5 but not sure if they are any good.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am not going to pull any punches on this one. I can't sugar coat the obvious conclusions based on the preceding posts.

Sadly your posts so far show that you have not done your homework, and clearly you don't understand how the weights, loads and limits work. The combination you have chosen is simply not compatible.

I really think you have rushed into buying a caravan without knowing what your car is capable of towing.

I will assume you are relatively young, and in particular passed your driving test after 1st January 1997, and have not taken any additional tests to extend your licence (becasue if you had you would know about weight limits) But on that premise I would suspect that if you even had a car that was capable of towing the caravan, the combined MAM would exceed your post 1997 licence limit of 3500kg. If this is the case even with a sensibly matched outfit you would be driving illegally.

 

[IamFlash]

Sorry there is another question I passed my test after 1997 so can only two up to 3.5t including the van.

The weight of the car is it just the weight? And what weight of the van do you need to consider the upper or lower?

 

[IamFlash]

I am not going to pull any punches on this one. I can't sugar coat the obvious conclusions based on the preceding posts.

Sadly your posts so far show that you have not done your homework, and clearly you don't understand how the weights, loads and limits work. The combination you have chosen is simply not compatible.

Clearly I don’t understand which is why I’m asking people who have experience in this. But thanks, I’m not going to rude as I am new. Thanks for your input. .

I am 36 - and trying to figure out what I can drive. Vans maximum weight it 1430. So if I can’t find a car that’s less that 2000kgs to pull it then there is something mad going on. Also if I need to take an extra test I will. Simple.

What I am looking for is a solution not a problem.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Sorry there is another question I passed my test after 1997 so can only two up to 3.5t including the van.

The weight of the car is it just the weight? And what weight of the van do you need to consider the upper or lower?

The licence limit of 3500kg is the COMBINED MAM. This is not what the car or the caravan actually weighs, but the sum of their upper weight limits. so its purely a paper exercise and you cannot change the result by part loading. There is no latitude on the result : even 3501kg is over your limit.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am not going to pull any punches on this one. I can't sugar coat the obvious conclusions based on the preceding posts.

Sadly your posts so far show that you have not done your homework, and clearly you don't understand how the weights, loads and limits work. The combination you have chosen is simply not compatible.

Clearly I don’t understand which is why I’m asking people who have experience in this. But thanks, I’m not going to rude as I am new. Thanks for your input. .

I am 36 - and trying to figure out what I can drive. Vans maximum weight it 1430. So if I can’t find a car that’s less that 2000kgs to pull it then there is something mad going on. Also if I need to take an extra test I will. Simple.

What I am looking for is a solution not a problem.

OK You now tell us the caravans MTPLM (Maximum permitted weight) is 1430kg Based on that figure and following the caravan industries advice for a novice where the MTPLM should not exceed 85% of the tow vehicles Mass in Service (near as dam it Kerbweight) this points to a car with a MiS of at least 1682kg

As we don't yet know what car you will be looking at ,and bearing in mind that most cars will have a payload capacity of about 100k per passenger seat, 4 passengers will give about 400kg on top of the Mis = 2082kg MAM Do bear in mid these are indicative figures not exact, but assuming its pretty close then adding your caravan MTPLM to the cars MAM is likely to give a Combined MAM of about 3512kg! This is over your licence limit of 3500kg.

What ever car you look at that is suitable for your caravan you will be very close and likely to exceed the 3500kg Cat B licence limit.

To be able to tow you will almost certainly need to take the +E towing extension test.

 

[IamFlash]

THanks for the reply

Is it the kerb weight of the car that’s used to calculate its weight?

 

[ProfJohnL]

THanks for the reply

Is it the kerb weight of the car that’s used to calculate its weight?

To work out the towing ratio you need 100 x (Caravan MTPLM/kerbweight of car) However not all manufactures quote the kerb weight but they should disclose the car Mass in Service (MiS) which is close enough for the ratio figure. The caravan industry advice the ratio should not exceed 85%, This is not law so a few percent over should not be a big issue but its not advisable. It reflects the fact that caravans are big and therefore impose lots of additional loads on the tow car.

For the Licence you need the casr Maximum Authorised Mass which is the same as its Gross Vehicle Weight,

 

[Icaru5]

A cursory glance at the latest VW golf brochure lists the Gross Vehicle weight for the golf GTD at either 1890KG or 1900KG IamFlash, depending on whether you have the manual or DSG version, If your caravans MTPLM is 1430KG, then being the sum of the two, your GVW would be 3330KG, taking the heavier weight of the DSG Golf GTD, which is within your 3500KG allowance.

If your golf GTD isn’t the latest model, then just check your documentation for the correct Gross vehicle weight as it may differ slightly, but probably not too much.

Regarding the 85% reference, it is just a guide, and has no legal standing. You’ll find plenty of sound advice on here regarding safe loading and towing tips to help you make the most of your new venture.

Unless you really want to change your car, why not keep the Golf which you are obviously very fond of, enjoy legally towing your new caravan, and just ignore the Prof’s rudeness and wrong advice. Apologies for the harsh welcome to the forum, most of the people on here are actually very helpful and friendly

 

[IamFlash]

I am going to change the Golf but is it illegal to tow with it says legal two limit is 1600kgs?

 

[Craigyoung]

......Unless you really want to change your car, why not keep the Golf which you are obviously very fond of, enjoy legally towing your new caravan, and just ignore the Prof’s rudeness and wrong advice. Apologies for the harsh welcome to the forum, most of the people on here are actually very helpful and friendly ......

Bit off a lovers tiff between you's two today !! :lol:

 

[ProfJohnL]

Its not just about Gross Vehicle or train Weights!

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golf/20-tdi-gtd-5dr-nav/spec
Its also so about kerbweight and even for this top of the line model it has a listed KW of 1,302kg.

Applying that to what we have been told about the caravan MTPLM of 1430 that would produce a towing ratio of
100 x (1302/1430) = 110% - which is way over what most experienced caravanners would even attempt, yet alone a novice. If the car in question is a lesser model its KB will also be lower resulting in an even bigger mismatch.

Granted the Golf's maximum towed weight is 1600kg and the caravan MTPLM is less at 1430kg,

Is it legal? Just on the basis of weights yes, BUT it could be considered to be an unsafe combination and thus illegal.

I cannot recommended it.

 

[Icaru5]

Instead of using unofficial kerbweight figures from a third party magazine, I would suggest referring to the manufacturers official unladen weight figure of 1395 for the three door version and 1425 for the five door.

Again, sensible loading and safe driving, nothing illegal.

Enjoy.

 

[Brasso530]

I am going to change the Golf but is it illegal to tow with it says legal two limit is 1600kgs?

Welcome Iamflash,in answer to your question,yes you can legally tow anything upto 1600kg,BUT this is based on a flat trailer not a big white box.
Please go into the tow car and towing safety sections on this forum.There will be most of the questions and answers you seek.If you find a car you like get as much info on its weight and submit it in tow car section and we'll give you our very varied views .

 

[otherclive]

Instead of using unofficial kerbweight figures from a third party magazine, I would suggest referring to the manufacturers official unladen weight figure of 1395 for the three door version and 1425 for the five door.

Again, sensible loading and safe driving, nothing illegal.

Enjoy.

Totally agree. Don’t believe all that you read!
The Golf GTD figures quoted in an earlier post are clearly ridiculous as VW reduced the weight of the latest Golf models by a significant amount. As did Vauxhall with the Astra and JLR with the new Discovery. But even earlier Golf models were nowhere near the kerbweights stated earlier. They are some 230kg (approx) than my Superb 4x4 Estate.

PS Edit. Apology the earlier post by you was referring to GVW. Crikey the OPs getting me all confused!

 

[ProfJohnL]

To quote Shakespeare's Hamlet "Hoist by my own petard,"

I usually do advise refraining from using third party sites, and I would have used VW's own figures if I could have found them. So instead I quoted and pointed to the web site I did use.

As has often been pointed out by me and others, kerb weight is a notoriously difficult figure to pin down with any accuracy. However which ever figure that has so far been mentioned the ratio of
100 x (Caravan MTPLM/cars kerbweight,) the result is still over 100%!!!

That figure is not recommended for experienced towers and positively discouraged for novices.

On that basis alone it is foolhardy to suggest to the OP who is self confessed novice that the outfit is OK.

 

[IamFlash]

Am I allowed to ask in here about this

Audi Q5. Has a Mass in use of 1910 from the V5. Can I tow with this and not exceed 3.5?

Sorry I spotted loads of replies after the Prof. Thanks for that.

I know my mate uses his 1 series to tow a 4 birth with no issues. I know it’s not advised but shows if I need to I can use the golf.

 

[Craigyoung]

I'd off thought so . Its giving you 159o kg and you should get a decent van for that but don't forget you have to load it also and not be over the 35oo kg .

Good luck