Thanks, I did, can’t even blame spell check for that one. Wind farms would take some hiding behind a hedge!
John
Thanks, I did, can’t even blame spell check for that one. Wind farms would take some hiding behind a hedge!
John
I think it's all too easy to underrate the architects of the Victorian era, who were responsible for most of the beautiful buildings we speak of now. Bridges, railway viaducts, industrial buildings of all kinds were normally made to look magnificent with superb shape and lovely brickwork and stonework. Not only look magnificent but were functionally wonderful with clever structures. Considering there was no computer modelling with finite element analysis etc in those days, but magnificent strong and graceful buildings were made. Hundreds of years earlier, wooden roof structures were created from natural timber shapes. A wind turbine column is a whopping great tube crudely designed to be cheap and functional. Who would choose to have one in sight of their own home?
Parksy
Moderator
The red brick building next to the elevated section of the M5 just before West Bromwich is the Chance Brothers glassworks building which is now listed as a building of great historical interest.
They made the glass prisms for lighthouses among other things.
The industrial west midlands was full of structures that tourists would wax lyrical about today, but not many of those who worked the machinery inside these buildings enjoyed long retirements into old age.
My own father died at 59 because of industrial related illness.
No architectural adornment could ever compensate for the lives of sheer drudgery in awful conditions that men and women of my grandparents and parents generation had to endure in the myriad iron foundries, steel mills, drop forges and glass works that still existed until the de-industrialisation of the Thatcher era.
It was a blessing in disguise, because now the 21st century the post-industrial Black Country is a paradise which enjoys relatively good health, has abundant wildlife and museums where the rose tinted spectacles are standard issue for those wandering around the canals and reconstructed back to back housing that we who live here considered to be slums.
Not forgetting the brick built outside kazi, no central heating, pea souper fogs caused by steam trains and coal fires.. Sadly in those days life was hard. Sorry your dad died too early .I expect in those days financial support from HMG was pathetic . The Chance building for me was special. Amongst all the higaldy pigaldy post war developments it stood the might of Adolfs Luftwaffe . Hopefully the Woke lot won’t throw it in the canal😉😉
Parksy
Moderator
Thanks Alan.
Apologies for drifting off topic but regarding financial support there was nothing.
My mother passed away when I was a child, and our father worked night shifts in a local iron foundry and bought us three children up with absolutjely no intervention from any social service or government assistance.
I can now appreciate industrial architecture, I see reconstructed forges for chain and nail making at our local museum ( BCLM, a good day out for visitors to the West Midlands), but I can't help thinking about the blighted lives of people that I knew.
During the Second World War, in comparison to Birmingham, London, Coventry and Hull the Black Country was relatively untouched by the H. Goering demolition corps, mainly because we are situated in what was once called the Stour Valley, and the constant industrial haze and anti-aircraft batteries on the surrounding hills protected us.
We have some very active societies and organisations dedicated to preserving our industrial heritage which is great, but would I have swapped the grimy and noisy factories, foundries, gasworks and cooling towers for wind turbines or fields full of solar arrays?
Yes I would, in a heartbeat.
Apologies for drifting off topic but regarding financial support there was nothing.
My mother passed away when I was a child, and our father worked night shifts in a local iron foundry and bought us three children up with absolutjely no intervention from any social service or government assistance.
I can now appreciate industrial architecture, I see reconstructed forges for chain and nail making at our local museum ( BCLM, a good day out for visitors to the West Midlands), but I can't help thinking about the blighted lives of people that I knew.
During the Second World War, in comparison to Birmingham, London, Coventry and Hull the Black Country was relatively untouched by the H. Goering demolition corps, mainly because we are situated in what was once called the Stour Valley, and the constant industrial haze and anti-aircraft batteries on the surrounding hills protected us.
We have some very active societies and organisations dedicated to preserving our industrial heritage which is great, but would I have swapped the grimy and noisy factories, foundries, gasworks and cooling towers for wind turbines or fields full of solar arrays?
Yes I would, in a heartbeat.
At the time the canals and railways were built they were seen as blight, by many. There are stories of wealthy land and property owners who lobbied to have the routs of canals and railways changed to keep them off their own household estates, The masses didn't have the power we have today to force plans to be reviewed so they basically had to lump it, and actually that is still the case today for Gov't sponsored projects . ( Should I mention HS2?)
So to many these magnificent achievements were as abhorrent as some people view wind and solar farms today
Perceptions and acceptances change over time.
So to many these magnificent achievements were as abhorrent as some people view wind and solar farms today
Perceptions and acceptances change over time.
Sorry plus one for wind farms. I think they're amazing. Love them.
Me too. My wife and I really enjoy walking and have picked up our levels since lockdown. I have been looking for new walks near us and actively seeking out ones that include close passes to wind farms. They are surprisingly hard to come by, with most farms being located in fields without rights of way passing close by.
I recognise that is different is other parts of the country, where wind farms may be located on open access land and covered by the right to ramble.
We have often wondered why new housing developments don’t incorporate a wind turbine along with the street plan, perhaps in an open area (although some places are just not that windy).. But we are still waiting for mandatory solar roofing…
Wind turbines are noisy when operational if you're close to them, so usually placed well away from housing
Not that noisy-we have two across the road-and you can't hear the swooshing noise till you are pretty close-and nor -as a lot thought do you get flickering from the sun through your windows-since they can be programmed to prevent this ie at certain sun angles etc that might annoy, they are stopped!
I guess if your region is like ours they will not have had much anti flicker adjustment this last few weeks. 🌧
Agreed. I would describe wind turbines as “making a noise” but not “noisy”.
Certainly they are no louder (probably not as loud) as a dual carriageway road. We have a bypass round our town, and we live about 500m from it. It’s audible at that distance in the garden. In my experience, we would not hear a large turbine at that same distance.
The scheme has been developed with wildlife in mind and and with the moor now managed to promote this it should help. Off shore can be a problem though. When the large site at Teesside was built the beach at Saltburn lost a lot of sand probably due to tidal changes.
Sea located wind farms do not change the tides. They will still occur at the same time and will have the same rise and fall as they are caused by the moons gravity and other far more powerful forces. What may change is the tidal flow in the locality of the tower(s) Generally an obstruction to tidal flow will cause sand deposition rather than removal rather like the groynes seen on many beaches.
Its possible the sea bed at the foot of the wind towers is collecting more sand preventing it from reaching the shore line.
According to current technical data available sea depth is often the limiting factor when it comes to constructing offshore wind farms.
Reading this brief tells a good story.
Conventional turbines rest on the seabed and can’t be installed in water deeper than about 40 metres. In most regions this means they cannot be built more than 30km from shore. Floating wind turbines could, however, be a game changer. The floating turbines currently being installed at the Hywind wind farm near Peterhead in north-east Scotland can operate in water up to 1km deep. Such technologies could make it possible to build wind farms much further out to sea, where winds are typically stronger.
I can’t see what these details have to do with sand shifts?
Reading this brief tells a good story.
Conventional turbines rest on the seabed and can’t be installed in water deeper than about 40 metres. In most regions this means they cannot be built more than 30km from shore. Floating wind turbines could, however, be a game changer. The floating turbines currently being installed at the Hywind wind farm near Peterhead in north-east Scotland can operate in water up to 1km deep. Such technologies could make it possible to build wind farms much further out to sea, where winds are typically stronger.
I can’t see what these details have to do with sand shifts?
I'll bet the medieval flour mills and water pumps were never turned off to suit the local squire's sunbathing needs
We can see today how the greed for development often failed to take into account the impact it had on our environment. but its a two edged sword, becasue the knowledge we have today has been derived from historical experimentation, and we now have more tools and awareness to enable us to avoid some of the ignorant prior practices.
I admire the wind and solar farms for what they doing, producing power without burning fuel. I believe it's what we should have been doing for years. It's easy to make such judgements after the fact, but without the historical practices we would probably not be able to appreciate the facts.
We are both the product of what went before, as well as being the means to address the problems of what went before and hopefully going forward.
Perhaps the wind and solar farms will be not only seen as architectural features, but as symbols of how we recognised the human races past failings and greed.
Could it be that the sea bed mounted bases of the wind turbines disturb the natural flow of the currents and hence sand is not moved to the areas that it used to be before the turbines were installed. Must admit though that the example of Saltburn is the first time I have heard anything in that regard.
WRT floating wind turbines the Wikipedia article may be of interest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Float...Operational Wind farm , 2021 October
Parksy
Moderator
Last year we enjoyed a short break in East Anglia.
I haven't had a holiday in that area for 55 years, and while we were there we visited the beach at Caister on Sea where I spent a lot of time as a boy on holiday.
I was surprised to see last year that what was once a densely pebbled beach was relatively sandy compared to how it used to be.
Lowestoft beach, which was once a smooth sandy beach now has areas of pebbles.
There are now generating windmills out on Scroby Sands, the sand bar a few miles off the east coast in that area, but one of the local residents said that the windmills hadn't affected the beaches, but storms over the past few years had changed the composition of some of the beaches.
I haven't had a holiday in that area for 55 years, and while we were there we visited the beach at Caister on Sea where I spent a lot of time as a boy on holiday.
I was surprised to see last year that what was once a densely pebbled beach was relatively sandy compared to how it used to be.
Lowestoft beach, which was once a smooth sandy beach now has areas of pebbles.
There are now generating windmills out on Scroby Sands, the sand bar a few miles off the east coast in that area, but one of the local residents said that the windmills hadn't affected the beaches, but storms over the past few years had changed the composition of some of the beaches.
The coastline of east Anglia is continually changing as is the area north of the Humber. For many years preceding turbines there has been news reports of the coastline receding and homes at risk if or even collapsing into the sea. Some nature reserves in Norfolk and Suffolk are now deliberately giving ground to the sea to provide greater protection as sea levels are rising.
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The whole of the East Coast is subject to long-shore drift where parts are being eroded and washed along to be deposited further south -it's been doing this for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.
Thanks for that I had forgotten about the storm effects. There are many examples where following a major storm sea shore make ups have changed dramatically, and some times permanently.
I'm more inclined to think Rays experience is more likely storm related than wind power pylons.
This article from todays Guardian gives a very comprehensive account of what is happening along the eastern coastline which has been changing since the Ice Age.
UK most significant gas supply at Bacton Terminal is being protected by Dutch engineers against the effects of rising sea levels and oceanographic changes. But it’s not down to wind turbines.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...tm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email
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I can vouch for the long shore drift. When I were a lad 50 years ago we played tennis against the roll top sea defences at Sutton on sea and the steps to it. Now the top is visible and that's it!
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