In essence I agree with you, but the biggest hindrance to that is how much we have come to depend on fuel sources such as gas, oil, coal and nuclear.
If we wish to maintain our levels of comfort and convenience and reduce our need for fossil fuels, then we have to redress the balance between the production of energy from renewables and fossil fuels.
There are some alternate strategies, and the biggest one is to reduce the wastage of energy, by improving insulation, or finding more efficient ways of using the energy, EV's are a good example of this compared to ICE.
Reduce the demand for energy, by cutting out wasteful unnecessary processes.
If we use less energy then our bills drop. But another strategy is to buy energy when its cheap and store it, then you have options of either using it or slightly dubiously selling on when prices and demands are higher. That's where the UK gas storage capacity is acting against us. it means that we have less ability to survive periods of high gas prices without stock running low and being forced to buy gas at high prices to prevent shortages.
Good insulation helps, but the downside is poor circulation of air causing damp and mould in the home and as we all know mould is bad for the respiratory system. So where do you draw the line on home insulation?
Energy companies buy up to 5 years ahead when energy is cheap however they cannot store it. This may then create an issue for the distribution company in 3 - 5 years time when costs have risen as they are supplying still the energy at the price paid 3 years earlier.
Too many roundabouts in the energy sector.
Energy companies buy up to 5 years ahead when energy is cheap however they cannot store it. This may then create an issue for the distribution company in 3 - 5 years time when costs have risen as they are supplying still the energy at the price paid 3 years earlier.
Too many roundabouts in the energy sector.
When I lived in Canada the house was very well insulted and had excellent ventilation. Our present house has the latest insulation, breathable roof membrane and new windows and doors. We don’t get mould or condensation. Often it’s how the house is used.
Ventilation is easy, at a cost - just use a heat exchanger to extract heat from the "exhaust" air and heat up the "intake" air.
Although our home is very insulated, during the winter we have the bathroom and bedroom top windows open for some sort of ventilation. We also have an extractor fitted to remove damp air.
Also during last and current winter I tend to suffer from a blocked nasal passages which is very unpleasant as nothing to flu or colds. When we went away in the caravan over Christmas I never had any issues with nasal passages and was able to breathe freely.
On return home within 24 hours nasal passages blocked up again. Only thing I can think of is not enough fresh air into the home, but may be wrong?
Heat exchangers are not too expensive, but proper whole house fitting can be. It is best planned into the original design. But, it is of limited benefit unless the property is built to a good hermetically sealed quality. Sadly most of us live in properties which leak like sieves. Luckily air is easy to heat. With heat exchangers the quantity of fresh to recycled air can be controlled.
The vast majority of us suffer from many years of sub standard construction standards, low standards nevertheless most builders failed to achieve them.
There is a relationship between:
Thermal insulation.
Thermal capacity.
Ventilation.
Air tightness.
Fire safety.
Comfort.
Cost.
So inevitably it becomes a compromise. Mainly controlled by initial cost.
John
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Yes to all of the above.
New building regulations have improved over the years to address ventilation and air loss but still not enough in my opinion.
The problem, as implied in the above, is that there are many existing homes where it is not practical to address improved insulation and air loss - especially as the cost will be bourne by the home owner.
Quality of new build seems to be self regulating and I'm not convinced done very well.
Plans by governments to improve on carbon emmissions always seem to put energy conservation in second place.
A otherclive has pointed out in countries that have far more severe winters than we do. they have devised insulation techniques that work very well, and maintain adequate ventilation for both comfort and health.
I have a SIL who lives at the foot of the Rockies in BC at Dawson Creek which is mile zero for the Alsakan Highway. Her husband and son are both involved with heating and ventilation of homes.
Winter temperatures regularly fall to -30C or below and Summer can rise to over +35C. With such a wide range of common temperatures, making properties comfortable all year round is quite a challenge. - but they do achieve it. and during one trip I went to see a building site where they were installing HVAC systems.
Most properties in this area are wooden construction to a Canadian code and allowed for about 300mm of insulation in the exterior walls. Of course it needed vapour barriers and appropriate cladding.
The local preference is for ducted air systems, which of course moves and recirculates the air around the property. It can deliver heated air or if an AC is fitted - cooled air. Systems can also incorporate some fresh air exchange with a heat recovery system.
The thick insulation works in both winter and summer by reducing heat transfer through the walls keeping it warm in winter and cooler in summer.
The weather conditions are different in the UK, but we woulduse (edit) waste a lot less energy if our properties were better insulated.
I have a SIL who lives at the foot of the Rockies in BC at Dawson Creek which is mile zero for the Alsakan Highway. Her husband and son are both involved with heating and ventilation of homes.
Winter temperatures regularly fall to -30C or below and Summer can rise to over +35C. With such a wide range of common temperatures, making properties comfortable all year round is quite a challenge. - but they do achieve it. and during one trip I went to see a building site where they were installing HVAC systems.
Most properties in this area are wooden construction to a Canadian code and allowed for about 300mm of insulation in the exterior walls. Of course it needed vapour barriers and appropriate cladding.
The local preference is for ducted air systems, which of course moves and recirculates the air around the property. It can deliver heated air or if an AC is fitted - cooled air. Systems can also incorporate some fresh air exchange with a heat recovery system.
The thick insulation works in both winter and summer by reducing heat transfer through the walls keeping it warm in winter and cooler in summer.
The weather conditions are different in the UK, but we would
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Absolutely correct. Improving old property is necessary and helpful. But it’s very limited in what we can do in practice. Ignorance in construction methods over time has been partially responsible for where we have ended up. I used to lecture groups in the history and evolution of the cavity wall. For example, cavity walls were initially used to save on more expensive facing bricks. Some years later, simply as a physical barrier to water ingress, then someone thought to ventilate cavities which effectively turned buildings into working refrigerators with all the associated condensation. These mistakes are part of the legacy we are stuck with.
John
I would be looking at the possibility of something causing an allergic reaction. Normally very difficult to track down I am afraid.
John
That thought did occur to me, but as I never had any issue prior to treatment for my throat I sort of wrote off allergic reaction. It is not the dogs as they were away with us and doubt if it is the cats. Very puzzling unless it is that my nasal passages are a bit more sensitive now.
It would be interesting to know how they insulate properties in Canada and the differences between their insulation and insulation in the UK. Are you able to offer any sort of input as it would be appreciated?
Our friends live in Kelowna in British Columbia and apparently for some reason it does not get bitterly cold there and weather is a bit better than UK.
We have thought of air con for the home, but opted for Air Purifier instead as air con for home is rather expensive especially if you have ducting installed. Bearing in mind that we have air source heating.
Just a quick update. Technician came to inspect air source heating due to it being frozen over and did some adjustments and it is working a lot better. Taken them nearly 10 years to hopefully resolve the issue. As a bonus it seems our electric costs have dropped, but then the weather has not been that cold over the past month. Here's hoping.
I lived in Eastern Ontario for a few years with temperatures fluctuating between -40 and +40 degC. We had a wooden house built to what was known as R2000 standards. It had high levels of insulation in thick walls of wooden constuction and also had a mechanical heat recovery and ventilation system attached to which was an electric warm air unit. Air leakage was not very well controlled.
The standard also controlled the materials in order to use those with low volatile organic compounds.
The blown warm air system was useless and cost a fortune to run. Not just draining the bank account but causing dry air and a static build up . After the first winter we stopped using the blown air system and just used a wood burner. In the depths of winter -40degC, the house was a little chilly in the morning and we had to get the wood burner going first thing but it was ok.
One particular weakness was under the floor. Typical Canadian houses have basements which are usually heated. Ours had just a crawl space of about 1.5m height and just had insulation to the floor underside. The ground was just gravel covered.
Coming back to the UK and being able to build our own house we used similar construction methods but to a higher standard known as Passiv Haus. The house is wood and the outer walls are about 450mm thick with over 300mm of insulation. The roof - no loft - is even thicker. Double the usual amount of insulation in the floor slab, triple glazing and really air tight.
Lots of windows to get maximum solar gain.
The walls and roofing panels were pre-built in a factory, filled with insulation and sealed. These cassettes were then delivered on site and assembled by our builder. It took to weeks to erect and get weather tight. There where much grumblings from the builders about the amount of sealant and tape being used to get the joints air tight.
Current building reg air loss levels are rated at 8. We had a design goal of 2, which is all the builder would sign up to. On the first test we got 1.2 and identified the two big air leaks which we fixed. We didn't bother to test again but suspect its now below 1.
We have a mechanical ventilation and heat recovery system thats rated at over 93% efficient. Current regs only call for about 73% efficiency.
Materials of low VOC where possible.
We don't have a heating system only have a wood burner as the main source of heating which gets lit at about 3pm - 10pm each day from about Nov to Mar. However, we have two 1.4Kw electric heaters, one at each end of the house, which are set low only in the winter to keep the house from dropping below 18deg over night throughout. The thermostats cycle them on and off.
In the summer the inside temperature can reach 30degC but open windows can control that somewhat - except when the midgies are about.
As you can see doing this from scratch is feasible but not really acheivable retrofitting an old house. Houses being built by developers on sites are unlikely to go to these lengths but it was an investment for us, especially in these days of rising energy costs.
The standard also controlled the materials in order to use those with low volatile organic compounds.
The blown warm air system was useless and cost a fortune to run. Not just draining the bank account but causing dry air and a static build up . After the first winter we stopped using the blown air system and just used a wood burner. In the depths of winter -40degC, the house was a little chilly in the morning and we had to get the wood burner going first thing but it was ok.
One particular weakness was under the floor. Typical Canadian houses have basements which are usually heated. Ours had just a crawl space of about 1.5m height and just had insulation to the floor underside. The ground was just gravel covered.
Coming back to the UK and being able to build our own house we used similar construction methods but to a higher standard known as Passiv Haus. The house is wood and the outer walls are about 450mm thick with over 300mm of insulation. The roof - no loft - is even thicker. Double the usual amount of insulation in the floor slab, triple glazing and really air tight.
Lots of windows to get maximum solar gain.
The walls and roofing panels were pre-built in a factory, filled with insulation and sealed. These cassettes were then delivered on site and assembled by our builder. It took to weeks to erect and get weather tight. There where much grumblings from the builders about the amount of sealant and tape being used to get the joints air tight.
Current building reg air loss levels are rated at 8. We had a design goal of 2, which is all the builder would sign up to. On the first test we got 1.2 and identified the two big air leaks which we fixed. We didn't bother to test again but suspect its now below 1.
We have a mechanical ventilation and heat recovery system thats rated at over 93% efficient. Current regs only call for about 73% efficiency.
Materials of low VOC where possible.
We don't have a heating system only have a wood burner as the main source of heating which gets lit at about 3pm - 10pm each day from about Nov to Mar. However, we have two 1.4Kw electric heaters, one at each end of the house, which are set low only in the winter to keep the house from dropping below 18deg over night throughout. The thermostats cycle them on and off.
In the summer the inside temperature can reach 30degC but open windows can control that somewhat - except when the midgies are about.
As you can see doing this from scratch is feasible but not really acheivable retrofitting an old house. Houses being built by developers on sites are unlikely to go to these lengths but it was an investment for us, especially in these days of rising energy costs.
There is no single insulation code for the whole of Canada - see here
Building Codes & Standards - NAIMA Canada
www.naimacanada.ca
Air purifying is not the same or a replacement for Air Conditioning.
Just a quick update. Technician came to inspect air source heating due to it being frozen over and did some adjustments and it is working a lot better. Taken them nearly 10 years to hopefully resolve the issue. As a bonus it seems our electric costs have dropped, but then the weather has not been that cold over the past month. Here's hoping.
Several of us have commented several times that your reports of your air source heating systems problems are untypical, and you must have some sort of mal adjustment or fault with your system. This seems to support our position.
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I see your logic. However. For many people, cats can be a source of an allergic reaction. I also think that an individuals tolerance can alter with time. At the other end of the spectrum. My youngest Great Grandson, now age 5, was allergic to many many things. Including babies milk which caused lots of early difficulties. We now think they have all gone away with the exception of tomatoes.
John
I am well aware that an air purifier is not a replacement for air con and never suggested that however it was in relation to my nasal issue.There is no single insulatoncode for teh whole of Canada - see here
Building Codes & Standards - NAIMA Canada
Air purifying is not the same or a replacement for Air Conditioning.
Several of have commented several times that your reports of your air source heating systems problems are untypical, and you must have some sort of mal adjustment or fault with your system. This seems to support our position.
Hopefully the issue with air source has now been resolved, but we will only know when the next cold snap occurs.
Back to the OP. Me😜😜
Realistically on here I believe we all think about “green”. Clearly from all the answers going “green” is very cosy but at what cost to us on pensions or youngsters struggling with their high cost mortgages. The average person in the U.K. cannot in all honesty afford the cost of going Green . That’s a fact and in no way is a negative criticism of going Green. Some how us , “ yes I‘d like to be Green “ Must make it achievable to everyone, which sadly it is not foreseeable possible this year 😥.
Realistically on here I believe we all think about “green”. Clearly from all the answers going “green” is very cosy but at what cost to us on pensions or youngsters struggling with their high cost mortgages. The average person in the U.K. cannot in all honesty afford the cost of going Green . That’s a fact and in no way is a negative criticism of going Green. Some how us , “ yes I‘d like to be Green “ Must make it achievable to everyone, which sadly it is not foreseeable possible this year 😥.
Coincidentally this Youtube video was posted today (4th Jan 2022)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcuzTliUnXw
Although Matt Ferrell is not based in the UK his analysis and comments use quite a lot of UK information on this subject.
Although Matt Ferrell is not based in the UK his analysis and comments use quite a lot of UK information on this subject.
How memories fade with time. Mortgages at 16-17% interest rates, wifes income not included, deposit on house minimum payment 10% or more. No fixed interest mortgages so variable rates, inflation above 25%. Failure of endowments to clear the mortgage balance. Pound slumps, real cost of motoring higher then than now, food prices and many appliance prices higher in real terms than now. Property value drops putting workers in negative equity if they had to mover work. But of course we didn't eat out that much, or have takeaways delivered, of gain our entertainment with endless subscriptions for TV, mobiles, music. Foreign holidays...what were they?
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It is shameful that green choices do seem expensive compared to the more traditional methods of house building, but I do believe that if house builders were forced to improve the energy efficiency of the homes they build, then the sheer increase in green materials they use would bring economies of scale, and the construction cost of good housing would not rise as much as it presently does. But of course there is the longer term cost saving of using less energy which would offset some of the initial price disadvantage.
The government could also put in place some more incentives to move towards greener construction and use.
The government could also put in place some more incentives to move towards greener construction and use.
I definitely agree. One of our sons has a Barret house, supposedly built to a high level of insulation and efficiency. The insulation is actually terrible - cheap and flimsy. It is certainly not efficient. I fail to see why much better insulation can't be incorporated, because with large scale the costs should tumble. I don't know whether there is any pending legislation to raise standards, but there certainly needs to be.
The other ‘hidden’ expense of building higher efficient housing is space. If external walls are thicker they take up space reducing the density of houses per hectare. With the cost of housing land this is very real. I know of one builder reduced 11 inch walls to 10.5 saving 1 inch per house. Another, in Ellesmere port, on a long street of semi’s closed the spacing up in order to squeeze in an extra pair. Years later, residents started building garages alongside their houses. This is when they investigated the spacing and discovered what had happened. Yet the buyers of the extra houses, which were not on the original plan, had been paying rates.
My ideal external wall construction would be a minimum of, 110 face brick, 50 cavity 125 turbo block, 25 drytherm insulation, finishing with 50 dense blocks on the inside leaf. Total 360.
John
I consider wall thickness to be a very poor excuse for not improving thermal insulation. I am sure there are several materials that could achieve higher insulation values without increasing wall thickness to the extent of reducing the density of new housing.
There’s legislation to improve the EPC to category C in houses rented out by private landlords. For new tenants it’s required by 2025, for existing tenancies by 2028. There’s a cap on expenditure of £10 k per property ( I think). I’ve not read anything about if, or when it may apply to social housing tenants.
But as one post above says why are new properties not having solar panels mandated?
Isn't the break even point for solar panels nearly 20 years and adding the cost of solar panels onto a new build probably adds on at least another £10k onto the price. Apparently the average cos of a home in the UK is about £225k? Surely this is already pushing the price well beyond what a younger person can afford? Lastly many homes do not have south facing roofs so cannot really benefit from solar power.
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