Health and Driving

[Dustydog]

A friend of mine has this week suffered his third blackout over the last 12 months. Previous two were in USA and India so not noted here. He’s undergoing tests as we speak but is banned from driving for six months pending investigation. He has a new Porsche Taycan SUV.

It made me think what would I do if I was with him and he passed out whilst driving?

Can I switch off?
No conventional handbrake?
I can’t reach the footbrake ?

All suggestions welcome. Looking at my Touareg it too may prove hard for the passenger to stop it. Pressing the hand brake or auto hold , maybe? Pressing the stop,start button?
Thus my question is not just related to EVs.
All suggestions welcome
👏

 

[RogerL]

My wife asked my this question when I was fitted with my pacemaker/defibrillator!

The parking brake switch on most cars will apply the (hydraulic foot) brakes even if used at speed but some cars may not

Putting the gearlever into neutral will remove power from the wheels but be prepared for the engine to rev up to it's limiter although on some cars there's a much lower rev limit in neutral.

In a perfect world, leave the engine running, then the power steering will still be operative - but the panic level in such a situation will be far from perfect.

 

[otherclive]

It’s something I’ve thought about but not come to any conclusion. One car has a conventional handbrake but its ignition key is low down on the RHS of the column well away from the passenger. And it’s a manual gearbox. The other is auto. The stop start button is on the LHS of the dash but electric handbrake. Not sure if applying electric handbrake would work as the car was moving and not willing to test it and risk damage.

I had similar thoughts when I was commuting weekly between Lyneham and Cumbria. It was in a Beechcraft Kingair twin turbo prop. Sometimes there was only a single pilot so I would sit in the copilot seat and took a keen interest in watching what the pilot was doing. Although once at cruise his head seemed to be looking down at paperwork but he was listening to air traffic and other aircraft. I think from that experience and playing flight simulation I’d have more chance of landing the aircraft than controlling the car should the pilot or driver keel over.

 

[Hutch]

A very dangerous situation, a Heart attack, etc.
I tested my electric Handbrake after changing the module, IAW, the repair book, Santa Fe, Auto. decided it was a waste of time. Nothing like the good old pull up handbrake. Better off just slam the brakes on.

A few situations I have been in myself have been, over 50 plus years of driving.
1, Rover 3.5 , drive belt flaying itself, on a motorway. Drive able, but seriously scary.
2. Rover 3,5, clipping a kerb with two wheels and Rolling the car. Survived, Learned a lot, Drove a lot slower after that.
3, Rear left wheel blow out in a Land rover , Series 2. at 50 mph. It is hard to control, and surprisingly quick to say how much you love your family.
4,Triumph Trident. Motor cycle front tyre deflation, at 90 mph. Thank goodness for wet wipes. .
Coming off the M1, at J13, the windscreen just froze over. Just braked for 20 seconds and hoped I didn't hit the car in front.
Many more but that come with doing maybe 20 k miles a year. In those times.
Nowadays I panic If I have forgotten to put the windscreen wipers on automatic.
Just be ready for anything.

 

[Hutch]

It’s something I’ve thought about but not come to any conclusion. One car has a conventional handbrake but its ignition key is low down on the RHS of the column well away from the passenger. And it’s a manual gearbox. The other is auto. The stop start button is on the LHS of the dash but electric handbrake. Not sure if applying electric handbrake would work as the car was moving and not willing to test it and risk damage.

I had similar thoughts when I was commuting weekly between Lyneham and Cumbria. It was in a Beechcraft Kingair twin turbo prop. Sometimes there was only a single pilot so I would sit in the copilot seat and took a keen interest in watching what the pilot was doing. Although once at cruise his head seemed to be looking down at paperwork but he was listening to air traffic and other aircraft. I think from that experience and playing flight simulation I’d have more chance of landing the aircraft than controlling the car should the pilot or driver keel over.

I wouldn't be so sure he was map reading, I have done three Ferry flights, as engineer for the company I worked for to Nigeria, Just single pilot and Engineer. 10 days to get there. In the afternoon flights, we would take turns at Knapping, for 15 minutes. If we got tired. .
And yes flying a simulation game gives you a good chance of a controlled crash.

 

[Mel]

How do you feel about prayer? 😀
Mel

 

[Hutch]

How do you feel about prayer? 😀
Mel

Not for me, can't do it in a split second. I think more about reality, toilet paper.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I think this is quite an important question. Whilst you can try to develop a strategy for your own car along with your frequent traveling companions, but with so many different control layouts in modern cars, its difficult to give any universal practical advice.

How would you react if you were traveling in a vehicle your not familiar with?

 

[Dustydog]

Let’s start with our own cars. I shall experiment on a quiet lane.
1. Press the start stop button
2. Press the electronic handbrake

Forcing the gear selector is an option but the gate is protected. Even if I moved it to P it is likely the pawls would break off.
Any other ideas?
At the moment Mel’s is favourite 🙏

 

[Buckman]

Many years ago we attend an accident where the driver of a Jaguar had suffered a heart attack. While having the heart attack it was assumed that the accelerator was depressed to maximum and the car veered to the left and eventually hit a tree totally demolishing the tree. It was a 30mph zone. I think the driver was dead before they hit the tree. It would have been terrible if the car had veered to the right into oncoming traffic.

If there was a passenger in the car there is nothing they could have done to prevent the car hitting the tree as things happen so fast. In modern cars it is even worse if the cruise control in operation as again there is not much the passenger can do to stop the car due to the centre console being in the way.

 

[RogerL]

Let’s start with our own cars. I shall experiment on a quiet lane.
1. Press the start stop button
2. Press the electronic handbrake

Forcing the gear selector is an option but the gate is protected. Even if I moved it to P it is likely the pawls would break off.
Any other ideas?
At the moment Mel’s is favourite 🙏

Move the gearlever to neutral - that stops power going to the wheels allowing the car to coast to a stop even if you can't apply any braking.

 

[otherclive]

Perhaps all new cars could be fitted with voice control that recognises a loudly exclaimed universal phrase and shuts power off, and applies the brakes whilst Lane Control keeps it on the road. I can think of a suitable phrase but even with asterisks blanking out the two word six letter phrase the Mods may suspend me😂

 

[Buckman]

Move the gearlever to neutral - that stops power going to the wheels allowing the car to coast to a stop even if you can't apply any braking.

I don't think that is a good idea as the engine or gearbox could probably blow due to the sudden huge increase in revs. I saw the aftermath where a Ferrari's flywheel disintegrated causing damage to the cars alongside it. The driver was very lucky to escape without serious injury.

 

[RogerL]

I don't think that is a good idea as the engine or gearbox could probably blow due to the sudden huge increase in revs. I saw the aftermath where a Ferrari's flywheel disintegrated causing damage to the cars alongside it. The driver was very lucky to escape without serious injury.

The engine won't blow on modern cars - they have rev limiters which prevent them over-speeding and some, like my Touareg, reduce the limit to 3,000 rpm in neutral - let the electronics do their work.

 

[Buckman]

The engine won't blow on modern cars - they have rev limiters which prevent them over-speeding and some, like my Touareg, reduce the limit to 3,000 rpm in neutral - let the electronics do their work.

I am not and expert on car engines, but won't the electronics prevent you from changing into neutral when at speed.

It must also be remembered that if one is a passenger in a car when the driver has a heart attack or similar while at the wheel a lot can happen in those first couple of seconds. If travelling at speed it is unlikely a passenger would have the presence of mind to react that quick to the situation to prevent an accident .

 

[RogerL]

I am not and expert on car engines, but won't the electronics prevent you from changing into neutral when at speed.

It must also be remembered that if one is a passenger in a car when the driver has a heart attack or similar while at the wheel a lot can happen in those first couple of seconds. If travelling at speed it is unlikely a passenger would have the presence of mind to react that quick to the situation to prevent an accident .

I'm not aware that neutral is protected at speed on an automatic, although park usually is - I agree that there will be a delay in the passenger reacting, I guess that's why Dustydog started the thread

 

[Hutch]

Let’s start with our own cars. I shall experiment on a quiet lane.
1. Press the start stop button
2. Press the electronic handbrake

Forcing the gear selector is an option but the gate is protected. Even if I moved it to P it is likely the pawls would break off.
Any other ideas?
At the moment Mel’s is favourite 🙏

When I replaced the rear discs and Pads on my Santa Fe, to bed in the rear parking brake shoes to the new discs, I had to perform a stop 3 times using the parking brake, but NOT above 25 KPH. All sorts of warnings came on, thankfully all disappeared after switching the car off and on again.
Don't risk it, could be an expensive visit to VW dealer.

 

[Raywood]

Hope it never happens to me but I assume the best thing is put the handbrake on, most cars have a switch which should be easier, knock it out of gear unless on a sharp downward slope and try to steer as best you can. This assumes you have the time to do this and at speed I doubt it.

 

[Buckman]

Hope it never happens to me but I assume the best thing is put the handbrake on, most cars have a switch which should be easier, knock it out of gear unless on a sharp downward slope and try to steer as best you can. This assumes you have the time to do this and at speed I doubt it.

There is no way the passenger can reach the "hand brake" on the Jeep as it is a foot pedal. Again Mel's suggestion is best.

Having said that on many modern cars you can select whether to have the car in Auto or Manual. The passenger, if quick thinking, could knock the car into manual to down shift into a lower gear and hopefully slowing down the vehicle. I have no idea of the Cruise control would then disengage if it was switched to manual?

 

[ProfJohnL]

The responses so far are already beginning to show there is no single strategy that will work for all vehicles. Even the notion of moving the gearbox into neutral is no long always going to be accessible to a passenger, in some cars now the gear selection and parking brake is no longer in between the front seats.

What about if the passenger is a child, or a non driver...

I'm not against having a plan, but you will have to hope the passenger in the vehicle has enough nounce to know if use the plan or not if the driving conditions might render the plan more dangerous than the alternative.

Thankfully the incidence of driver becoming incapacitated whilst driving is very low. I'm more concerned about the numbers of people who are already incapacitated or are incapable of driving safely or considerately before they get into the driving seat.

 

[Dustydog]

Keeping it simple I was thinking about our Spouses in the original question.
1. Do a Clive ! **** ** Gently😁
2. Say a prayer😎
3. Panic and press pull everything. Something will break but better than a major crash🤪
I’ll seek Counsel from the IAM and an old Driving School Instructor friend of mine. Will let you know if it’s worth printing!

 

[Buckman]

On a car with keyless entry, if you press the start / stop button to kill the engine, will it stop the engine or will electronics prevent this?

 

[otherclive]

The responses so far are already beginning to show there is no single strategy that will work for all vehicles. Even the notion of moving the gearbox into neutral is no long always going to be accessible to a passenger, in some cars now the gear selection and parking brake is no longer in between the front seats.

What about if the passenger is a child, or a non driver...

I'm not against having a plan, but you will have to hope the passenger in the vehicle has enough nounce to know if use the plan or not if the driving conditions might render the plan more dangerous than the alternative.

Thankfully the incidence of driver becoming incapacitated whilst driving is very low. I'm more concerned about the numbers of people who are already incapacitated or are incapable of driving safely or considerately before they get into the driving seat.

Bring on autonomous vehicles then!

 

[Woodentop]

Many of you may have seen that three men died last Thursday when their SUV went into the River Esk at Glaisdale about 8 miles WSW-ish of Whitby. Someone else apparently tried to help but was unsuccessful.

Now I believe that if a vehicle is involved in a crash and any air-bag is set off the doors automatically unlock, but what if, as in this instance, the vehicle is on its side and being washed down stream? Opening a door will unlock the others (if so set) but how could a door be opened from inside a vehicle on its side? Car doors are surprisingly heavy.

I wonder if this may make the Dept of Transport or the manufacturers (ha!) look at how to make egress assisted from outside possible?

 

[Buckman]

Many of you may have seen that three men died last Thursday when their SUV went into the River Esk at Glaisdale about 8 miles WSW-ish of Whitby. Someone else apparently tried to help but was unsuccessful.

Now I believe that if a vehicle is involved in a crash and any air-bag is set off the doors automatically unlock, but what if, as in this instance, the vehicle is on its side and being washed down stream? Opening a door will unlock the others (if so set) but how could a door be opened from inside a vehicle on its side? Car doors are surprisingly heavy.

I wonder if this may make the Dept of Transport or the manufacturers (ha!) look at how to make egress assisted from outside possible?

It was the driver's son as they were returning after green laning. During my training it was drummed into us to use a long stick or staff and slowly wade into the water to gauge the depth.

If unfortunate enough to be swept away open the windows as soon as possible to allow the car to flood. This makes opening the door a lot easier. Behind the passenger seat we have a hammer in case.

As the vehicle was not involved in a impact or crash it is unlikely the air bags would have triggered and even if they did they deflate almost immediately. It was an unfortunate accident and accidents like this are extremely rare.

RIP to those that passed on in this tragic accident.